Diesel cars banned in Frankfurt

[Anna66 2,673]

After returning from a holiday, I realised just how bad the air is in the Frankfurt area. Saying that Cologne is extremely bad too.

I guess the price of living in a big city...

I noticed alot of buses are all electric now.

I think the diesel ban is fantastic. I remember getting bronchitus back in 2005 caused by travelling on public transport. There was a smog in the morning in winter. Yuck.

[wien4ever 446]

19 hours ago, almafreya said:

 

An except from Keleth's upcoming comment:

 

Well look at you Keith, driving around in your fancy EV, you smug bastard. Mr Moneybags acting all pious and superior just because he can afford an EV unlike us peasants driving around in our dirt-boxes, polluting the air, poisoning children. But you don't really care, do you Keith? Not really. It's all just image for you. Keith-washing, I call it. Waving at other EV drivers like you are in a special little "I care so much about the planet" club. Pretending you care about air quality and the impending climate disaster. You damn hypocrite Keith.

 

 

EV people are just exporting the pollution to the places that mine the materials for their EVs and generate the power for their EVs (Coal/lignite firing plants ).

 

So the EV owner is doing better for the environment... it is just his environment!

 

We don't want pollution from manufacturing industry (moves industry to China... "aww god, China is so polluted, so glad I live in Germany").

We don't want nuclear energy! (buys nuclear energy from France and quietly fires up Coal plants in Germany... "we are so clean in Germany,  no nuclear and all solar and windmills, coal? I buy my electricity from Eco friendy vendors only" ).

 

Amazing..

 

[MikeMelga 7,242]

35 minutes ago, wien4ever said:

 

EV people are just exporting the pollution to the places that mine the materials for their EVs and generate the power for their EVs (Coal/lignite firing plants ).

 

So the EV owner is doing better for the environment... it is just his environment!

 

100% wrong!

 

1) There are two problems: one is climate change. The other is health problems in big cities. EV 100% solves the health problems in big cities.

2) EVs are more efficient than ICE vehicles, meaning they pollute much less per km considering the whole energy chain

3) It's much more efficient to place a filter on a dirty power station than to place a filter on a car's exhaust

4) An EV lets a country change its energy strategy. ICE cars don't, you're stuck with oil

[Keleth 9,279]

34 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

The other is health problems in big cities. EV 100% solves the health problems in big cities.

Lol 100%?

A bit of an exaggeration there.

[Keleth 9,279]

1 hour ago, wien4ever said:

EV people are just exporting the pollution to the places that mine the materials for their EVs and generate the power for their EVs

No, they´re not.

All the environmental and health problems and labour for mining for batteries are still dwarfed by the extraction of fossil fuels.

But they´re not doing what they seem to think they are doing and getting rid of pollution. They´re still polluting but they´re moving a lot of the pollution away from towns. Most EV fans seem to forget that the parts used just for the bodywork still involve lots of environmental damage on the way to being made, and then there´s all the transport of those parts and the cars themselves which involves diesel lorries driving into cities.

Then of course there are the ships to transport stuff as well, whether they´re transporting ICE or EVs makes not one iota of difference to how much pollution they cause.

EV owners and advocates need to get away from the idea that EVs are THE solution. They´re not, they´re a step in the right direction but merely a step.

 

I would love to be able to go for a walk in town with the wife where after a few mins she doesn´t start coughing her lungs up because of the pollution and hopefully EVs will make this possible. Sadly by the time this is possible we´ll no longer be here to enjoy it.

 

[Eric7 538]

23 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Lol 100%?

A bit of an exaggeration there.

 

Just a bit...

Google "Non-exhaust emissions (NEE)"

[slammer 877]

20 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I stop every 3h, same as if I was driving the Merc. Leave home at 9am, stop for lunch at 12. Then drive 3 more hours and reached my destination.

I guess you never drove a proper EV on a long trip.

On 26.1.2023, 23:06:29, PandaMunich said:

 

•  

Nope, would not want to, stopping every three hours? Couldn´t do it, not when you are on the clock and the clock is ticking down to a nasty Service-Level-Agreement fine. The company has offered a nice price if we Techweenies took a EV though. We just laughed because they could not calculate how much time the damn thing would have to be on charge if one of our typical tours were Landsberg to Munich-Ingolstadt-Ansbach and maybe another "pretty please" ticket in Augsburg just because it´s on your way home heading back to LL. 

Or LL to Lindau and on your way back drop in to Kempten.

[Keleth 9,279]

2 hours ago, Eric7 said:

 

Just a bit...

Google "Non-exhaust emissions (NEE)"

He seems to think that car pollution is the only pollution in the cities.

For an expert engineer (self-proclaimed) that´s an incredibly strange idea to have.

[MikeMelga 7,242]

23 hours ago, slammer said:

Nope, would not want to, stopping every three hours? Couldn´t do it, not when you are on the clock and the clock is ticking down to a nasty Service-Level-Agreement fine. The company has offered a nice price if we Techweenies took a EV though. We just laughed because they could not calculate how much time the damn thing would have to be on charge if one of our typical tours were Landsberg to Munich-Ingolstadt-Ansbach and maybe another "pretty please" ticket in Augsburg just because it´s on your way home heading back to LL. 

Or LL to Lindau and on your way back drop in to Kempten.

There you go advocating for the 1% use case that invalidates 99% of the others. Can't stop for 15-20 min during 6h drive? What kind of corner case is that one?

[slammer 877]

2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

There you go advocating for the 1% use case that invalidates 99% of the others. Can't stop for 15-20 min during 6h drive? What kind of corner case is that one?

On 27.1.2023, 21:39:13, MikeMelga said:

 

On 26.1.2023, 23:06:29, PandaMunich said:

 

Drat, having to delete everything one has posted before replying is annoying at times...

But here we are.

It doesnt work like that. Without the other 99% putting the costs for demand and supply in reasonable levels the job I do would not be economical. It´s not that you drive for six hours straight, maybe two, three of four hours, then customer and out and off you trot to the next one, thing is there arn´t the charging spaces where I need to be at any given time and place.

And yes I do stop, pee, or fill the tin tank, empty the meat tank, fart, grab a coffee and off we go.

Now dont get me wrong, I think that ev´s have their place, local and short trips... fine. My problem with ev´s is that they are simply normal cars that have been converted to electric. 

Do you remember the GM EV1...? A car simply ahead of it´s time. all scrapped. Imagine the EV1 with a Tesla drive train, lightweight and efficient it could have paved the way. Only it looked laughably dorky, so dorky that it probably put the development of ev´s back by two decades. What I am trying to say is that the ideal ev would run on thin bicycle wheels and not weigh more that a few hundred kilos with rider at most. So why do I need a big-ass SUV running on electric?

[PandaMunich 16,568]

@slammer Please read this, it will teach you how to get rid of my quote:

 

[slammer 877]

3 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

@slammer Please read this, it will teach you how to get rid of my quote:

 

Whats that in Mac?

 

 

Sorry just messing ;:)

[Keleth 9,279]

12 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

There you go advocating for the 1% use case that invalidates 99% of the others. Can't stop for 15-20 min during 6h drive? What kind of corner case is that one?

 

On 28/01/2023, 17:56:31, slammer said:

Nope, would not want to, stopping every three hours? Couldn´t do it, not when you are on the clock and the clock is ticking down to a nasty Service-Level-Agreement fine. The company has offered a nice price if we Techweenies took a EV though. We just laughed because they could not calculate how much time the damn thing would have to be on charge if one of our typical tours were Landsberg to Munich-Ingolstadt-Ansbach and maybe another "pretty please" ticket in Augsburg just because it´s on your way home heading back to LL. 

Or LL to Lindau and on your way back drop in to Kempten.

 

Both sides of the argument need to stop getting so entrenched in the range argument.

EVs are fine for many people as regards the range, how many of us actually drive more than 300km etc in one go often?

However, the range is a problem for some people whether EV fans like it or not.

[Keleth 9,279]

9 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

@slammer Please read this, it will teach you how to get rid of my quote:

 

The biggest problem with quotes etc on this site comes when you´re using a mobile device,it is often a nightmare of a screen full of quotes that you can´t get rid of.

[Krieg 14,924]

14 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

There you go advocating for the 1% use case that invalidates 99% of the others. Can't stop for 15-20 min during 6h drive? What kind of corner case is that one?

 

It is funny how you are a reasonable guy except when it comes to EVs and Tesla, then you start drinking their Kool-Aid in gallons.    Yes, driving long distance with an EV is totally doable for plenty of people, but there is some level of compromise.  You have to plan your trip around the charging places or increase the number of stops.  I myself am not willing to eat crap food just because that's the place with a charger.  I would accept the compromise of stopping for charging and having a coffee and watching Netflix in the car and then stopping for aceptable food, that's what we do with our ICE anyway.  I accept the compromise. 

 

And then for some people the scenario is not acceptable at all, like some business cars.  Some companies are already using EVs, mostly the ones that can go one day with one charge, some don't.  Companies with products that are mission critical have no time for their hardware support guy making detours to find chargers and just waiting there.  @slammer tried to tell you it does not yet work for him but of course you have to know better.

[HEM 11,070]

33 minutes ago, Krieg said:

I myself am not willing to eat crap food...

 

... at exorbitant prices...

[MikeMelga 7,242]

12 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

It is funny how you are a reasonable guy except when it comes to EVs and Tesla, then you start drinking their Kool-Aid in gallons.

Perhaps I have... first hand experience?

12 hours ago, Krieg said:

    Yes, driving long distance with an EV is totally doable for plenty of people, but there is some level of compromise.  You have to plan your trip around the charging places or increase the number of stops.

Not with a Tesla.

 

12 hours ago, Krieg said:

  I myself am not willing to eat crap food just because that's the place with a charger. 

I don't eat crap food. Here are some of the nice supercharger locations I've used last year:

https://goo.gl/maps/iqZv3cbZN1L8h1xC9

https://goo.gl/maps/SD7FHfmfU7hWwt24A

This last one had an amazing steakhouse nearby.

https://goo.gl/maps/JfJvYHqEZ5LgKuGZ6

 

 

12 hours ago, Krieg said:

And then for some people the scenario is not acceptable at all, like some business cars.  Some companies are already using EVs, mostly the ones that can go one day with one charge, some don't.  Companies with products that are mission critical have no time for their hardware support guy making detours to find chargers and just waiting there.  @slammer tried to tell you it does not yet work for him but of course you have to know better.

Ok, let's get real. He can get me his destination and I will calculate how much time he would waste, vs the money he would save on gas.

[fraufruit 41,938]

Sorry to say, MM, but none of those chargers are ON the Autobahn. We drove from D'dorf yesterday and it took us 9 hours and we only used Autobahn chargers at 20 min. each 3 stops. (We started almost empty). You can easily kill an extra 10 minutes or so when you go off the Autobahn. Been there and done that.

 

We only have one meal when underway and then maybe coffee and cake or ice cream. Every Rasthaus has salad or sandwiches on Vollkornbrot with lettuce and tomato. Not so unhealthy. 

 

I will confess that I had my first Big Mac yesterday in probably 15 years and it was good.  (Car was 100% charged before we finished eating.)

 

I will also admit that we had 4 km. left when we hit the last charger. Himself insists on Ionity chargers because they are so much cheaper for us until March. Exciting! Still didn't get the turtle. That's EV speak for when the car powers down due to low battery. 

 

I don't think an EV is a good idea for people who are traveling around for work and have deadlines to meet. Especially when they can recoup their fuel costs, etc.

 

Not for everybody.

 

One upside is that we meet a lot of really nice people who are also hanging around and charging. Lots of laughs! Especially when we plugged in with 2% battery left. They were very impressed.

[yesterday 1,979]

28 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

 

This last one had an amazing steakhouse nearby.

https://goo.gl/maps/JfJvYHqEZ5LgKuGZ6

 

 

 

I have had steak there, maybe 10 years ago while I was skiing there, its defiantly the best steak I ever had, I sometimes go there for skiing, just because I like the food in that area.  

[MikeMelga 7,242]

56 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Sorry to say, MM, but none of those chargers are ON the Autobahn. We drove from D'dorf yesterday and it took us 9 hours and we only used Autobahn chargers at 20 min. each 3 stops. (We started almost empty). You can easily kill an extra 10 minutes or so when you go off the Autobahn. Been there and done that.

The second one is on the autobahn exit. The other one is a very used path for Austria. Long trips != Autobahn.

 

56 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

I don't think an EV is a good idea for people who are traveling around for work and have deadlines to meet. Especially when they can recoup their fuel costs, etc.

I have several, several friends using Tesla for work. They go to Stuttgart and back. They don't do 700km for work, most under 400km, which is doable either on one charge, or if you are in a hurry, a quick 5min charge.

 

Again, that's defending the 1% use case while attacking 99%.