Diesel cars banned in Frankfurt

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Mike... They should start with the main Poluters first and not us sitting ducks...  

 

The Aircraft... The Ships on the Main... The Foreign vehicles on the Autobahn that chug out the crap... 

 

They have targeted the wrong people!!  

 

I need to drive into Frankfurt just 4 times a month to collect and return my daughter to her mother... They live within 800m of the "No go zone"... so I am forced to buy a new vehicle that is less efficient than the one I have, with cost me more to insure for what?  Nothing... 

Will every single house that has Oil Central heating have to change to Gas?  

 

We motorists are the sitting ducks!

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SpiderPig said:

Mike... They should start with the main Poluters first and not us sitting ducks...  

 

The Aircraft... The Ships on the Main... The Foreign vehicles on the Autobahn that chug out the crap... 

Ships that bring oil for our cars?

And how is a ship in the middle of the Atlantic giving cancer in Germany? This is about public health in the cities, not climate change!

 

Quote

Will every single house that has Oil Central heating have to change to Gas?  

They will switch to electric-run heat pumps. Long story short, electric cars + home solar power + home battery + heat pump = huge savings, total independence from grid, zero pollution, no money to fucking Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and Russia.

 

Banning diesel is the first step of a much larger strategy. Moving to electric cars will deliver geostrategic independence to Europe, will hugely reduce imports and as a second order effect, will avoid climate change.

 

The only reason Germany is not pushing full force on electric cars and banning diesel is because the German auto industry is too powerful. Will be a case study for years to come.

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4 times a month, 800m walk. You both have legs. A new car is surely not actually required? A decent backpack for her stuff should do the trick.

 

Not that I don't take your general point, and if it was a greater distance, it would be a good example, but less than a k is a pretty small distance for a school kid.

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25 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Ships that bring oil for our cars?

And how is a ship in the middle of the Atlantic giving cancer in Germany? This is about public health in the cities, not climate change!

 

They will switch to electric-run heat pumps. Long story short, electric cars + home solar power + home battery + heat pump = huge savings, total independence from grid, zero pollution, no money to fucking Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and Russia.

 

Banning diesel is the first step of a much larger strategy. Moving to electric cars will deliver geostrategic independence to Europe, will hugely reduce imports and as a second order effect, will avoid climate change.

 

The only reason Germany is not pushing full force on electric cars and banning diesel is because the German auto industry is too powerful. Will be a case study for years to come.

I assume you are drunk or trying to justify you e-car.

As for cancer causing... ? Let's ban cigarettes first... That's a proven cause of cancer!

 

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Come on Mr Melga... You are still on line.. 

 

Are you a smoker?   

Do yo think an electro car will counter balance your cigarette addiction?

 

Come on.. tell us all about it..

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1 hour ago, SpiderPig said:

The control cameras will be directly at the autobahn end.. no place to park... Otherwise I would have no gripe... 

 

Oh, well in that case, fair point and that is properly crap. Unless you can come off earlier and snake your way on tiddly roads to within a similar distance of her home, I suppose. Is that possible? It would take longer most of the time, which is another bore.

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2 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

I assume you are drunk or trying to justify you e-car.

Will buy one until the end of the year. But not just because I think it is the best thing for Europe or the planet, but because for my car segment it actually makes a lot of sense, it is cheaper than a similar ICE car.

 

2 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

As for cancer causing... ? Let's ban cigarettes first... That's a proven cause of cancer!

 

We already did... you cannot smoke them at work and closed spaces.

And car smoke is also a proven cause for cancer!

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1 hour ago, SpiderPig said:

Come on Mr Melga... You are still on line.. 

Unsure what that means, but my PC is online until it auto hibernates... does not mean I am around.

 

1 hour ago, SpiderPig said:

 

Are you a smoker?   

No. Never been.

 

1 hour ago, SpiderPig said:

Do yo think an electro car will counter balance your cigarette addiction?

Huh? 

 

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11 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

The only reason Germany is not pushing full force on electric cars and banning diesel is because the German auto industry is too powerful. Will be a case study for years to come.

 

I am a pro- e-car and it irks me that Germany is really far behind compared to other countries in terms of e-car adoption and infrastructure.

 

UK and France are already years ahead of us.   They even achieved the point were second hand e-cars are so cheap that the true middle class can afford them.

 

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7 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

I am a pro- e-car and it irks me that Germany is really far behind compared to other countries in terms of e-car adoption and infrastructure.

 

UK and France are already years ahead of us.   They even achieved the point were second hand e-cars are so cheap that the true middle class can afford them.

 

 

Well I don't know about others, but I find that there is just not enough information and that the technology is still lacking.

 

I'm in the market for a new car and am considering a Hybrid.  But, I can find enough information and I can't find the right car for me so will need to compromise probably many aspects if I go this route.

 

For example:

The manufacturers list the distance that an electric vehicle can achieve, but like fuel consumption rates then these tend to be very optimistic.  So what is realistic?  My commute to/from the office involves a lot of hills, so I would like to know what I can expect.  As at the moment there are no recharging points at my place of work, or anywhere close!

 

If I get a hybrid and the battery runs out, what is then the fuel consumption level of my vehicle?  This is important as once or twice a year I will travel back to the UK, so their is of course no chance of getting back on electric power only so I want to know what will it use. (I accept that it is an exception and it will cost more, but how much?)

 

 

If I'm going to invest so much money, then I want to know more information first.  As I can't afford to invest heavily and then get something else in 6-12 months if it is no good!

 

 

Also, it seems that at the moment many Hybrids are very expensive to insure.  So if the insurance cost for me goes up significantly then it is probable that it will cost me significantly more money to run the vehicle than it does today.

 

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A hybrid is a very vast term and they use it for cars that are extremely different.  So you would have to do lots of research in order to decide which one is good for you if there is anyone at all.

 

I myself prefer full electric cars instead of hybrids, because you benefit much more with an e-car when your driving routine is mostly in the city.   For long trips we do not see any problem because we have two cars, so we could take the other one in the long distance trips.   You mentioned you go to UK once or twice a year, that's not much, I would go with an e-car and find another solution for those trips, like renting a car.   Or get a long-ranger and plan the one or two stops you will have to make.  Which is of course annoying but not often.

 

Anyway, what we are doing at the moment is just waiting and trying to extend the life of our current cars as much as possible because we think it is not yet the moment to buy an e-car in the segment we want, maybe in one or two years the market would be better.   Our perfect scenario would be a smallish car for the city for under 25K with a 200-300 km range.   But it might not happen soon.

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37 minutes ago, Krieg said:

A hybrid is a very vast term and they use it for cars that are extremely different.  So you would have to do lots of research in order to decide which one is good for you if there is anyone at all.

 

I myself prefer full electric cars instead of hybrids, because you benefit much more with an e-car when your driving routine is mostly in the city.   For long trips we do not see any problem because we have two cars, so we could take the other one in the long distance trips.   You mentioned you go to UK once or twice a year, that's not much, I would go with an e-car and find another solution for those trips, like renting a car.   Or get a long-ranger and plan the one or two stops you will have to make.  Which is of course annoying but not often.

 

Anyway, what we are doing at the moment is just waiting and trying to extend the life of our current cars as much as possible because we think it is not yet the moment to buy an e-car in the segment we want, maybe in one or two years the market would be better.   Our perfect scenario would be a smallish car for the city for under 25K with a 200-300 km range.   But it might not happen soon.

 

 

Yes you make good points.  The problem is that we also have 2 cars, the small one is fairly new so it does not make sense to replace it now, and when we purchased it an eCar didn't make sense due to the financials).   It is the big one which needs replacing!  

I would also like to wait a while, but I've been having too many problems with the car the last year and it is time to replace (including this morning when it wouldn't start as I wanted to come to work!)

 

I think I will end up with another petrol car, as Diesel is not an option (I think it is just time before Euro6 diesels also get banned/restricted in cities) and Hybrid/Electric is not there yet for my needs.  I could risk a Diesel Euro6 car and aim to replace it in 5 years (or less if bans become a problem) instead of 7 - 10, but I'm not convinced that this is maybe the best route.

 

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Buy a Mercedes 200/220d with the OM654 engine.

According to the Deutsche Umwelthilfe the NOx level are extremly loe. You should not have any problems.

(Except in countries/towns where they want to exclude Diesel cars independent of the emissions).

https://www.duh.de/fileadmin/user_upload/download/Projektinformation/Verkehr/dieselgate/EKI/2018-12-12_Tabelle_PEMS-Messungen_Ergebnisse_Maerz_2016-Dez_2018.pdf

 

PS

In the US you now can buy the F150 with a Diesel engine (it's from Jaguar)

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14 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

Buy a Mercedes 200/220d with the OM654 engine.

According to the Deutsche Umwelthilfe the NOx level are extremly loe. 

 

 

But then you have to drive a Mercedes.

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For the record I have a Zoe in France. Quite happy as long as she works. However, the day something goes wrong, your local garage who sold it to you doesn't want to know. Not equipped to fix an e-car. Too exotic. They recommend going to the next place, who recommend going to the next place, who recommend going to the next place... eventually you are looking at a garage 2 hours away. Yes really. And it was only a hiccup.

 

As long as the (rented) battery works, fine. But when it has to be replaced, is it really gonna be that easy? More about the customer service contract than the the mechanics. How will they deal with all those huge spent batteries? Like nuclear power plants, we are not there yet.

 

Last year, the car was recalled for "adjustment of the milometer". Pardon? Yeah. Thereafter, massive cock-up with the billing. Resulting in Renault deducting 2200 Euro on direct debit and taking 6 months to sort out the mess and reimburse the money. Never did get an explanation or an apology. Customer service crap.

 

I am sure in Germany the customer service side will be so much better. But way to go.

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3 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

I'm in the market for a new car and am considering a Hybrid.  But, I can find enough information and I can't find the right car for me so will need to compromise probably many aspects if I go this route.

Hybrid is the worst possible purchase. You get almost no electric range and you negate the advantage of the EV by having to maintain 2 systems: the electric and the internal combustion.

 

3 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

For example:

The manufacturers list the distance that an electric vehicle can achieve, but like fuel consumption rates then these tend to be very optimistic.  So what is realistic?  My commute to/from the office involves a lot of hills, so I would like to know what I can expect.  As at the moment there are no recharging points at my place of work, or anywhere close!

An electric car will perform better on hills than an ICE car because it will recover energy during downhill. This EV hill mith never dies!

A Leaf or a Tesla Model 3 have enough range for 99% of your journeis. A Zoe not so much.

 

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5 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Hybrid is the worst possible purchase. You get almost no electric range and you negate the advantage of the EV by having to maintain 2 systems: the electric and the internal combustion.

 

 

 

Yes, that is also a fear.  The medium term maintenance of the systems (a colleague told me that VW group vehicles are worse than others for example due to the engineering they used).

 

 

9 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

An electric car will perform better on hills than an ICE car because it will recover energy during downhill. This EV hill mith never dies!

A Leaf or a Tesla Model 3 have enough range for 99% of your journeis. A Zoe not so much.

 

 

 

Yes, but 99% is not enough!  As the other 1% is when you need the large car but it doesn't work for the situation.

Plus, the price is too expensive (I earn a good wage and can't afford that!) and it doesn't have the cargo space I need for the long trips.

 

I think Tesla is probably the best EV option, but it is not yet quite their for me.  In a few years maybe, but that doesn't help me know.

 

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