Diesel cars banned in Frankfurt

865 posts in this topic

38 minutes ago, Keleth said:

I`ve noticed over the past few years a spare tyre doesn`t come as standard anymore but rather an optional extra.

 

When I bought new cars in the U.S., I always asked the dealers to throw in a real spare (instead of the donut) and floor mats at no extra cost. They never blinked. 

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3 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

When I bought new cars in the U.S., I always asked the dealers to throw in a real spare (instead of the donut) and floor mats at no extra cost. They never blinked. 

How many decades ago?

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29 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

When I bought new cars in the U.S., I always asked the dealers to throw in a real spare (instead of the donut) and floor mats at no extra cost. They never blinked. 

You don`t even get the donut anymore.

You get a can of that foam stuff to get you to a werkstatt thats it.

 

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37 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Do any of you actually thinks that Musk gives a flying fuck about the enviroment?

 

musk (2).png

but but but he`s a genius hero who cares about the world and people ;)

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23 minutes ago, Keleth said:

You don`t even get the donut anymore.

You get a can of that foam stuff to get you to a werkstatt thats it.

 

 

I would still ask them to throw in a spare and floor mats while standing there with cash in my hand. They get to decide of it is worth losing the sale.

 

I got a Subaru dealer to throw in cruise control after we settled on a price. They installed it.

 

Costs nothing to ask as I am constantly saying to Himself. :D 

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59 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Do any of you actually thinks that Musk gives a flying fuck about the enviroment?

 

Things are relative.  That people want to lob things into space is a given ,refusing to do it doesnt reduce emissions, it just moves the task to someone else. 

 

One big polluting rocket is much the same as the next, its all about the amount of energy you need to get to space, and the laws of physics say thats a lot of burnt fuel. 

 

I think Musk is a snake oil salesman, but to fault him for his rocketry isnt fair. From an environmental perspective you should rather fault him for his private jet.

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35 minutes ago, Keleth said:

You don`t even get the donut anymore.

You get a can of that foam stuff to get you to a werkstatt thats it.

 

That foam stuff usually won't get you anywhere its useless, just a joke!

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7 hours ago, fraufruit said:

And all this time I thought EV's were/are being developed to help save the planet with zero emissions. All you guys talk about is money. 

 

Seen any pictures of Delhi lately?

 

If the average user is priced out of the market then it is a discussion about money. The thing about being poor is not having the money to go on and save more money.

 

A point that Midas Melga fails to take into consideration with his unicorn purchase arguments 

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4 hours ago, Keleth said:

Do your Mercs have a spare though ?

I`ve noticed over the past few years a spare tyre doesn`t come as standard anymore but rather an optional extra.

 

And the ones that come with the space it is not for a real tire, it is for the filler.

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3 hours ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

If the average user is priced out of the market then it is a discussion about money. The thing about being poor is not having the money to go on and save more money.

 

A point that Midas Melga fails to take into consideration with his unicorn purchase arguments 

Cell phones were also once only a toy for the rich.  As were home computers, cars, you name it.  Any new technology that comes out will have the same tired argument used against it.  Of course electric cars are more expensive.  Car companies have had over 100 years to perfect the technology and the production of ICE cars which results in lower costs.  You cannot go to an engineering department that specializes in, for example, fuel injectors, and tell them they will be working on battery coolant systems next week.  That is expertise that has to be built up or bought and that isn't free and doesn't happen overnight.  The technology will get better, problems will be solved, and production costs will drop just as they do for basically every new product that comes to the market.  

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The entire rocket launch industry (114 launches in 2018) produces about as much pollution in a year as one busy airport in one day. SpaceX accounts for about 20% of orbital launches annually.

The Falcon 9s produce about 500–700 tons each of water and carbon dioxide per launch. While sizable, there’s only about 20 Falcon 9 launches per year currently. Compared to other transport sectors’ pollution, that’s nuthin’.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-pollution-does-SpaceX-produce-with-all-the-rocket-launches

 

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6 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

Cell phones were also once only a toy for the rich.  As were home computers, cars, you name it.  Any new technology that comes out will have the same tired argument used against it. 

 

This thread is about a potential ban of diesel cars in Frankfurt. Other cities in Germany are having similar thoughts.

 

So you agree that only the rich who can afford these new electric toys should be able to drive into Frankfurt? 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

Cell phones were also once only a toy for the rich.  As were home computers, cars, you name it.  Any new technology that comes out will have the same tired argument used against it.  Of course electric cars are more expensive.  Car companies have had over 100 years to perfect the technology and the production of ICE cars which results in lower costs.  You cannot go to an engineering department that specializes in, for example, fuel injectors, and tell them they will be working on battery coolant systems next week.  That is expertise that has to be built up or bought and that isn't free and doesn't happen overnight.  The technology will get better, problems will be solved, and production costs will drop just as they do for basically every new product that comes to the market.  

 

Thank you for stating the obvious.   The issue is not that, the problem is that the EVs are not ready for the general population and some people here like @MikeMelga have lost the touch with the real world, with comments like "Well, if you are going to buy a 32000€ car you can buy a 46000€ car as well".    Reality is that those ideas only apply to the upper class.    The real world is a bit different.  There are plenty of people who only can afford a 7000€ new Dacia, and there are some that can't afford even that and have to wait and buy that same Dacia but used.   Arguments like "But the average new car in Germany is 32000€" are useless, because people in the lower brackets can never afford the averages.

 

Of course they won't stop making ICEs tomorrow and the used ones will stay in the market for long time, but not all of them (i.e. most Diesels will sooner or later be banned) so you are taking out of the market plenty of cars that were meant for the lower income population.

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Before they ban diesel cars... maybe they should look at other sources of "Diesel polution"... like all the construction vehicles that are left chugging away when not in use!!   The Boats on the Rivers etc... 

 

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10 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

Cell phones were also once only a toy for the rich.  As were home computers, cars, you name it.  Any new technology that comes out will have the same tired argument used against it.  Of course electric cars are more expensive.  Car companies have had over 100 years to perfect the technology and the production of ICE cars which results in lower costs.  You cannot go to an engineering department that specializes in, for example, fuel injectors, and tell them they will be working on battery coolant systems next week.  That is expertise that has to be built up or bought and that isn't free and doesn't happen overnight.  The technology will get better, problems will be solved, and production costs will drop just as they do for basically every new product that comes to the market.  

 

Of course nobody wants to pollute the planet !

But we have to be realistic here, e-cars for most people are not a real alternative at the moment, because of the dis advantages, ok people tell me, maybe next year we have a "peoples e-car", but at the moment there is not an e-car that suits my needs.

 

So what am I supposed to do

- sit at home, earn no money - because I cannot get to my work, or live on the door step of my work

- or go out buy a diesel and have a life everyone else ?

 

When things change, then I can change, if it takes 10 years to get an acceptable e-car then that is the situation we all live in.

 

@SP, you forget to mention smokers aswell

 

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16 hours ago, Keleth said:

Do your Mercs have a spare though ?

I`ve noticed over the past few years a spare tyre doesn`t come as standard anymore but rather an optional extra.

No. You get the foam and the compressor. TBH, 20 years ago I got a flat tire and I could not change it because the bolts would not come out. Foam is simpler, lighter and faster.

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15 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Before they ban diesel cars... maybe they should look at other sources of "Diesel polution"... like all the construction vehicles that are left chugging away when not in use!!   The Boats on the Rivers etc... 

 

And Smokers!   ;)

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35 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Thank you for stating the obvious.   The issue is not that, the problem is that the EVs are not ready for the general population and some people here like @MikeMelga have lost the touch with the real world, with comments like "Well, if you are going to buy a 32000€ car you can buy a 46000€ car as well". 

1) With Umweltbonus it gets down to 41k

2) You keep forgetting TCO. But that´s what poor people usually do: think only of the immediate cost.

3) I kept the discussion on new cars. You can have a similar discussion on used ones.

4) If you accounted in a car´s price the damage it does for the environment, EVs would be price competitive even on the lower segment.

 

Quote

  Reality is that those ideas only apply to the upper class.    The real world is a bit different.  There are plenty of people who only can afford a 7000€ new Dacia, and there are some that can't afford even that and have to wait and buy that same Dacia but used.   Arguments like "But the average new car in Germany is 32000€" are useless, because people in the lower brackets can never afford the averages.

People on the lower brackets cannot usually afford a new car. But someone is buying and using a new car, so that later they can buy it. You are spreading the argument forgetting we were focused on something easy to compare: new car prices

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

1) With Umweltbonus it gets down to 41k

 

 

 

And who do you think finances this bonus ?   The tooth fairy?

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