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Getting British passport for my German/UK child who is 14

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Hello

Is it possible for my son, who is a German citizen aged 14 to have British citizenship aswell?

I am a British citizen and my wife ia a German citizen.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

 

Lee Clark

 

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Yes (probably).

 

If you are a "British citizen not by descent" and If your son was born outside of the UK (which I assume as you are asking on her) then as you are British then you son is entitled to "British Citizenship by descent".

This means that they have full UK citizenship but that they cannot pass this right onto their decedents directly.

More info here:

http://workpermit.com/immigration/united-kingdom/british-citizenship-descent-or-otherwise

 

 

I suggest that you start your application for a UK passport ASAP.

 

I am in the same situation with my daughter (I'm British, wife is German, daughter born in Germany).  And during my recent application for Einbürgerung in Germany I was advised by the local Beamter to apply for a UK passport for my daughter before Brexit.  While nobody knows the exact implications, it was implied (although not stated!) that it might be possible that those with dual nationality before the Brexit date might be treated different to those who try to obtain this afterwards.

 

 

Edit: Corrected typo!

 

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23 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

If you are a "British citizen not by decent"

Hmm - thinks of "British by indecent"!!!

 

What you intended is "British citizen by descent".

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1 hour ago, HEM said:

Hmm - thinks of "British by indecent"!!!

 

What you intended is "British citizen by descent".

 

Oops!  Yes, too early in the morning!

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1 hour ago, dj_jay_smith said:

While nobody knows the exact implications, it was implied (although not stated!) that it might be possible that those with dual nationality before the Brexit date might be treated different to those who try to obtain this afterwards.

"might be possible": now that's an understatement. Getting a second non-EU citizenship normally means you lose your German citizenship.

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Just now, msam said:

"might be possible": now that's an understatement. Getting a second non-EU citizenship normally means you lose your German citizenship.

 

Normally yes, but we have to see if the UK might be considered an exception.

 

Certainly it seems like they will not force people to decide in March 2019 between one or the other, then we have to see how they treat people who have dual German & Uk citizenship who try to renew their German passport and if they then force them to decide.

 

Plus, for Children there are different rules if they have inherited another nationality.

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Those of who get it by the 2019 date are OK.   We can keep both.  That's already been indicated.  (Discussed on other threads here).   Can't remember situ in transition period.  Would not expect to be able to keep both after that.

 

In respect of kids taking up German, national service may well be back on the radar possibly (and seemingly for all kids not just first two boys as previously).

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31 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

Normally yes, but we have to see if the UK might be considered an exception.

 

Certainly it seems like they will not force people to decide in March 2019 between one or the other, then we have to see how they treat people who have dual German & Uk citizenship who try to renew their German passport and if they then force them to decide.

 

Plus, for Children there are different rules if they have inherited another nationality.

 

People who already have both should have no problem, neither should children who inherit multiple nationalities. Renewing a passport will also not be a problem.

But German citizens who try to get a UK citizenship after Brexit will lose their german citizenship, unless there is some special deal between the UK and Germany - the chances of that happening are, optimistically speaking, slim

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Perhaps someone here can help me as I am in a similar situation trying to get british passports for my 3 kids before March. My 2 younger kids should not have a problem even though I realise I am cutting it very fine with the timing. However my 13 year old was born in 2005 before I married his mum. The rules changed afterwards in 2006 which ment it didn't matter but basically he doesn't automatically get my british citizenship because of this. I have written to the HMPO for advice on this but I think they have given me incorrect information. From my own research it should be enough to give them a copy of my marriage cert after his birth to grant him automatic citizenship, however they have now told me I must apply for his citizenship using the UKF form and a process that can take up to 6 months. I am sure this is not the case because even in the form itself it is stated:

"If your parents married after your birth you may already be a British citizen. This will depend on which country’s laws applied to your father at the time of the marriage.Some countries’ laws –including the UK -state that where a child’s parents marry after the child’s birth, the child will be treated as if the parents had been married at the time of the birth. If your parents married after your birthyou may wish to seek the advice of an immigration adviser".

In Germany "marriage by itself after the birth of the child does not serve to legitimate the child. The child’s legitimacy requires the additional legal act of the father’s acknowledgement of paternity", however I have the legal paternity document and my name is on his birth cert.

Also on the gov website when applying for a child's 1st british passport from abroad it only asks for your wedding cert to be included in the supporting documents for a child born before 2006. There is nothing about having to apply with the UKF form. Should I write back to HMPO and challenge the information they have given me? If I have to go through the UKF process it will cost over €1000 and take 6 months and he won't get dual citizenship after brexit, if I can apply for the passport with supporting documents he can get dual citizenship like his siblings and it will only cost the price of a kids passport. Has anyone else had to deal with this issue? Any advice most welcome!

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Not too clear:

Was child born in Germany?

Did you register child's birth  with UK at time of birth?

 

A quick check on UK GOv website seems to make the requirements quite clear as to your options and how to proceed. Probably better than  most of us here!
 

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That quote is a "may" though, not "is".   It certainly implies various possibilities.  What information were you given, exactly?   The suggestion of consulting an immigration advisor (specifically in respect of the UK citizenship) may be a good one. 

 

From what I took from an Info Abend for British nationals, birthplace is often v. important in respect of UK citizenship.  It got legalistic but UK does not at least currently do automatic citizenship "by blood" (unfortunately, I forget the stock term for how it does do it).  Germany does.    I learned that much that evening and definitely that the two nations adopt different approaches to the basis of citizenship, and so one would not expect identical process.    What Germany is doing or how it does it is not relevant to the UK application (and vice versa), each just following their rules according to their policies.

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7 minutes ago, RedMidge said:

Not too clear:

Was child born in Germany?

Did you register child's birth  with UK at time of birth?

 

A quick check on UK GOv website seems to make the requirements quite clear as to your options and how to proceed. Probably better than  most of us here!
 

Yes he was born here. No I didn't register with UK. The gov website is not very clear on this unfortunately, that's why I wanted to see if there are others in the same boat.

16 minutes ago, swimmer said:

That quote is a "may" though, not "is".   It certainly implies various possibilities.  What information were you given, exactly?   The suggestion of consulting an immigration advisor (specifically in respect of the UK citizenship) may be a good one.

 

From what I took from an Info Abend for British nationals, birthplace is often v. important in respect UK citizenship.  It got legalistic but UK does not at least currently do citizenship "by blood" (unfortunately, I forget the stock term for how it does do it).  Germany does.    I learned that much that evening and definitely that the two nations adopt different approaches to the basis of citizenship, and so one would not expect identical process.    What Germany is doing is not relevant to the UK application (and vice versa), each just following their rules.

The problem is that countries differ on what illegimate and legitimate births mean and the gov website isn't too clear on this. For example after a lot of digging I found this:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118568/legitimation-and-domicile.pdf

The info here on germany creates more questions that answers, for exapmle my son is legitimated by the legal document I have but will the UK gov accept this for a passort application? Also according to the same info I was actually still domiciled in the UK when he was born as I hadn't made plans to move to Germany permanently and was still visiting the UK frequently, this would legitimate his birth according to British law. I am currently looking for an immigration advisor.

 

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I think that is a very good idea because it sounds like it is important to nail the exact detail in respect of the UK requirements, and particularly of course is can be harder when not in UK to do stuff.    Time is also a factor if "no deal", as you note.   (To be honest, if that gets close to 29 March, you might want to just pay the grand).   If it comes to evidence and hairspliiting, domicile is pretty fixed (via father as per document).   I may have lived here for 15 years and be over 50 but my domicile is still UK, it is through my father and will be until I become an oil oligarch who can buy a new one :lol:.  Where I reside is not relevant.

 

That document makes it all sound a bit prehistoric and, while it sets out useful principles, its focus on other nations might limit its use in a UK setting.  So, again, the advice would seem to be important, especially about how to support the claim.  

 

I know plenty of non-EU families here, including some in my extended family, who have kids of different nationalities.     Digressing but where this "by birth" thing kicks in for Brexit is for grandkids.   Kids not born here (not UK) will have UK rights often but not grandkids.   That is why we heard about it.

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Thanks Swimmer, good to know about the domicile, unfortunately no way I can afford the grand, especially as I have to prove my finances are in good standing if I apply for the einbürgerung. All the best

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As far as I am aware, if you are British your son is, and no need to pay anything except the passport fee.  I was told this with my son, born here.  He is not being naturalised, he IS British.  Also for German mixed UK couples I know.  Just try it online and ask.  No need to pay for naturlisation.

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Well hopefully someone will have some examples of it, you cannot be the only family in this situ. (Update - Yes :D).

 

As per previous reply, I also wondered if you were describing naturalisation rather than simple first time application for born UK citizen.  Key thing.  Immigration hints at latter.   Not sure Brexit can stop a Briton being a Briton, and neither can having got German citizenship first - but possibly there may be some choices later in respect of dual and of course you have German family view to consider.   So perhaps get the advisor, naturally work with German family,  and carry on.    Logical sequencing of the "If this, then that" might help?

 

Personally (and I have done ithe process) I doubt a grand is relevant to "financial standing" because that is a far bigger picture but, in the event they wanted to quibble about an extra four figures, then saying you had to put money aside to help a secure life to support your German child after Brexit could be used to demonstrate a commitment to building a stable life here, in quite difficult conditions. 

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My laptop with Windows 7 has lost its cut and paste function and I am too stupid to fix it.  (Tips anyone?)

However, google "british citizen by descent" and you should find the info and contacts you need.

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1 hour ago, snowingagain said:

As far as I am aware, if you are British your son is, and no need to pay anything except the passport fee.  I was told this with my son, born here.  He is not being naturalised, he IS British.  Also for German mixed UK couples I know.  Just try it online and ask.  No need to pay for naturlisation.

Sadly, that is not the case, believe me I have gone over the issue. If your child was born before 2006 and you weren't married at the time, they will not automatically inherit British citizenship by decent. It has to be applied for with the UKF form, however there is a grey area if you got married after the birth (which is my situation). My 2 younger kids born after 2006 do not have this problem, they are automatically British by decent.

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1 hour ago, swimmer said:

Well hopefully someone will have some examples of it, you cannot be the only family in this situ. (Update - Yes :D).

 

As per previous reply, I also wondered if you were describing naturalisation rather than simple first time application for born UK citizen.  Key thing.  Immigration hints at latter.   Not sure Brexit can stop a Briton being a Briton, and neither can having got German citizenship first - but possibly there may be some choices later in respect of dual and of course you have German family view to consider.   So perhaps get the advisor, naturally work with German family,  and carry on.    Logical sequencing of the "If this, then that" might help?

 

Personally (and I have done ithe process) I doubt a grand is relevant to "financial standing" because that is a far bigger picture but, in the event they wanted to quibble about an extra four figures, then saying you had to put money aside to help a secure life to support your German child after Brexit could be used to demonstrate a commitment to building a stable life here, in quite difficult conditions. 

No it is citizenship I am talking about. If I pay the grand and get him citizenship via the UKF form it will take 6 months and it will be too late for him to get dual citizenship. The problem is that after the UK leaves the EU, Germany does not allow for dual citizenship except with other EU countries (and Turkey I think), by applying for citizenship for another country you automatically lose German citizenship. My son will never stop being British because Britain allows for dual citizenship with all countries but after Brexit he would have to give up his German citizenship and therefore also his freedom of movement within the EU.

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