What's left for me in Germany after Chemnitz incident?

180 posts in this topic

On 19/11/2018, 14:50:20, MikeMelga said:

Seriously? Why are you spamming the thread? You are making huge quotes and then saying nothing useful.

What is your purpose?

You are "making" huge posts and then saying nothing useful.

What is your purpose?

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On 07/12/2018, 20:16:46, WiccaChica said:

As a Wiccan I have no love for Christianity nor for Islam as people like me have been burned and persecuted by both religions. I don't have any problem with Christians or Muslims practicing their religion as long as they don't call me a devil worshiping whore who should be crucified. In that case I will get medieval and hex them. No I'm not joking.

 

Fortunately most mainstream Christians haven't given me any trouble. However I can't say the same thing about Muslims, a few of which have quoted passages from their holy book saying that witches should be burned.

 

Unfortunately it isn't all about you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/05/cia-long-history-kill-leaders-around-the-world-north-korea 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man

 

Over-represented

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples

 

etc etc...

 

That's why we now have circa 480 millions (mainly) Christian individuals ensconced on the lands of the slaughtered on 5 continents with their endless professions of how much more peaceful they are than everyone else.

https://brilliantmaps.com/european-ancestry/

 

More myopic possibly.. more structured violence possibly.. more peaceful, ermmm... no.

 

Hex on 'em bro ;) !

 

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7 hours ago, claudeyc said:

 

Unfortunately it isn't all about you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/05/cia-long-history-kill-leaders-around-the-world-north-korea 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man

 

Over-represented

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples

 

etc etc...

 

That's why we now have circa 480 millions (mainly) Christian individuals ensconced on the lands of the slaughtered on 5 continents with their endless professions of how much more peaceful they are than everyone else.

https://brilliantmaps.com/european-ancestry/

 

More myopic possibly.. more structured violence possibly.. more peaceful, ermmm... no.

 

Hex on 'em bro ;) !

 

Fortunately for you I am probably the last person willing to defend Christianity. Unfortunately for you the idea of automatically equating Western and Christian is completely flawed. The United States may pay lip service to the man on the cross but it is a secular state. Go ahead and talk about the past crimes of the Catholic church and I will agree you but as soon as you start to imply the CIA as a Christian agency you start to lose credibility.

 

Ask yourself how many Europeans/Americans actually consider themselves Christian and how many are other/non-religious? Out of the Christians how many attend mass? Even many so-called Christians are more agnostic and see Christianity as a tradition passed on by their ancestors.

 

As for capitalism being Christian, does that include China as well?

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6 hours ago, WiccaChica said:

Fortunately for you I am probably the last person willing to defend Christianity. Unfortunately for you the idea of automatically equating Western and Christian is completely flawed. The United States may pay lip service to the man on the cross but it is a secular state. Go ahead and talk about the past crimes of the Catholic church and I will agree you but as soon as you start to imply the CIA as a Christian agency you start to lose credibility.

 

Ask yourself how many Europeans/Americans actually consider themselves Christian and how many are other/non-religious? Out of the Christians how many attend mass? Even many so-called Christians are more agnostic and see Christianity as a tradition passed on by their ancestors.

 

As for capitalism being Christian, does that include China as well?

 

"Unfortunately for you the idea of automatically equating Western and Christian is completely flawed." .

Foundations of western ideas of the Individual, The State, Morality, Law, Personal Rights etc are and were formed by Christian mores.

I care not to what degree that is recognized by the population or not.

Then you have the more overt expressions of religion.

As shake-a-spear noted "It doesn't matter what you call it, a thing is what it is".

Western Society as it stands is incapable of separating itself from its formative foundations and the resultant societal framework that that reated.

Simply trying to change reality by definition is nonsense.

Read this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke

 

"As for capitalism being Christian, does that include China as well?"

Statement: I am an alien. I practice capitalism.

See what I did there. The Universe didn't vanish into an endless, tautological black hole.

The Chinese working within a global Capitalist system has nothing to do with anything.

Just like practically every nation on Earth being attached to that system via the International Banking System has no bearing on the identity of the progenitors.

 

If that one is too complicated try this on for size:

English originated in the British isles.

The Chinese speak English and NOT entirely because they want to. Much of the current use of English globally is through necessity given the nature of the world within which we live.

See French and German resistance to this.

 

I should also add that Western Capitalism includes expansionist tendencies (etc) but ... well .. 1 + 1 = 2 .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, claudeyc said:

 

"Unfortunately for you the idea of automatically equating Western and Christian is completely flawed." .

Foundations of western ideas of the Individual, The State, Morality, Law, Personal Rights etc are and were formed by Christian mores.

They were actually formed by the Greeks long before Christianity existed. Think of Persia's invasion of Greece in the 5h century B.C.. The West does not automatically equate to Christianity.

 

1 hour ago, claudeyc said:

Western Society as it stands is incapable of separating itself from its formative foundations and the resultant societal framework that that reated.

That may be so but its foundations were formed long before Christianity. The Christians simply inherited a thousand years of labour and then had people like me burned. Therefore giving Christianity all the credit for Western civilization is flawed.

 

1 hour ago, claudeyc said:

"As for capitalism being Christian, does that include China as well?"

Statement: I am an alien. I practice capitalism.

See what I did there. The Universe didn't vanish into an endless, tautological black hole.

The Chinese working within a global Capitalist system has nothing to do with anything.

Just like practically every nation on Earth being attached to that system via the International Banking System has no bearing on the identity of the progenitors.

 

You start equating Christianity with capitalism and I assume you did this because the West developed capitalism in its present form and to you West = Christianity. My point was that if capitalism is "economic barbarism" and we can therefore blame Christians because it also stemmed from the West, is it also Christians practicing "economic barbarism" when the Chinese practice capitalism, a much harsher form than may I add, even though China was never a Christian majority nation?

 

 

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5 hours ago, WiccaChica said:

They were actually formed by the Greeks long before Christianity existed. Think of Persia's invasion of Greece in the 5h century B.C.. The West does not automatically equate to Christianity.

 

That may be so but its foundations were formed long before Christianity. The Christians simply inherited a thousand years of labour and then had people like me burned. Therefore giving Christianity all the credit for Western civilization is flawed.

 

You start equating Christianity with capitalism and I assume you did this because the West developed capitalism in its present form and to you West = Christianity. My point was that if capitalism is "economic barbarism" and we can therefore blame Christians because it also stemmed from the West, is it also Christians practicing "economic barbarism" when the Chinese practice capitalism, a much harsher form than may I add, even though China was never a Christian majority nation?

 

 

 

You would do well to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_Christianity_in_civilization

It's a big world out there with lots of people in it. I can only go so far to explain simple things which you can unearth for yourself.

Economic Barbarism it is, but in the minds of some we can wish it away by ignoring it or arguing about something else.

China? Almost as many Europeans live outside of Europe than within it. 480m as per the previous link.

We obscure that using the term "The West".

This is the EU: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/EU_OCT_and_OMR_map_en.png/1599px-EU_OCT_and_OMR_map_en.png

But we obscure what those are by referring to them as "Overseas Territories"

etc ..

Redefinitions which serve to confuse the symbol minded and literalists among us.

I could go on all day but I won't.

 

You have enough information to join the dots for yourself (if you want to).

Time up. Thanks.

 

 

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On 12/31/2018, 3:56:32, claudeyc said:

 

You would do well to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_Christianity_in_civilization

It's a big world out there with lots of people in it. I can only go so far to explain simple things which you can unearth for yourself.

Economic Barbarism it is, but in the minds of some we can wish it away by ignoring it or arguing about something else.

China? Almost as many Europeans live outside of Europe than within it. 480m as per the previous link.

We obscure that using the term "The West".

This is the EU: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/EU_OCT_and_OMR_map_en.png/1599px-EU_OCT_and_OMR_map_en.png

But we obscure what those are by referring to them as "Overseas Territories"

etc ..

Redefinitions which serve to confuse the symbol minded and literalists among us.

I could go on all day but I won't.

 

You have enough information to join the dots for yourself (if you want to).

Time up. Thanks.

 

 

You keep on shooting generic links at me but you don't address my point. Western civilization existed long before Christianity and it is simply wrong to give this religion all the credit for building the society in which we live.

 

 

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Can we please stop conflating capitalism, The West and christianity. They are not the same thing.

 

As much as christians love to take credit for everything in the world and claim that without them the rest of the world would still be in the stoneage, it just simply isnt true. 

 

Anyone who thinks the chinese are somehow unable to think up capitalism on their own and need some dude in a purple frock to do it for them needs to have a little quiet time to reflect on their ideas of other cultures.

 

From the point of view of modern liberal secular democracies of the west, the most important thing christianity has done is to die off quietly allowing people to build a society with exactly the features it is trying to claim for itself. 

 

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8 hours ago, WiccaChica said:

Western civilization existed long before Christianity

 

Absolutely. Ancient Greek and Roman culture and language were the mainstay of a good Western education for a great swathe of history for a good reason. 

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11 hours ago, kiplette said:

 

Absolutely. Ancient Greek and Roman culture and language were the mainstay of a good Western education for a great swathe of history for a good reason. 

 

Yep. This classic TV series from 1967 is worth following:

 

 

They did a remake recently called "Civilisations" which rather nuttily included I believe other civilisations to be "fair" and diluted the genius of the West. Of course Arabia and China had their own valid civilisation but we live in the West so need to understand our own culture first, imho.

 

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On 02/09/2018, 17:40:40, Imam Bux said:

I am Masters student, living in Hessen, from Pakistan.

[...]

Now, I am considering to move to US. Is my fear right? Can I visit any city in (East) Germany any time without any fear? Am I, as an international and muslim student, liability on this country? Will I be the victim of political unstability of the country?

just as a reminder, what treatment do the Christians get in Paki??

 

https://www.persecution.org/2019/01/07/christians-face-mounting-discrimination-pakistans-schools/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-it-feels-crime-be-christian-pakistan-n179511

https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/pakistan/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/christian-woman-acquitted-in-pakistan-to-leave-country

 

" Christian woman acquitted in Pakistan after eight years on death row for blasphemy plans to leave the country, her family said Thursday as radical Islamists mounted rallies for a second day against the verdict, blocking roads and burning tires in protest."

 

yet the muslim always the victim...

 

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2 hours ago, mannes said:

" Christian woman acquitted in Pakistan after eight years on death row for blasphemy plans to leave the country, her family said Thursday as radical Islamists mounted rallies for a second day against the verdict, blocking roads and burning tires in protest."

 

the muslim always the victim...

 

 

What's more disgusting is that the U.K. refused to grant this lady asylum because it would allegedly incite violence in Pakistan. Are we Brits so weak that we allow a foreign mob to dictate our immigration policy? If you see the the type of people that migrate to the U.K. illegally and are then granted an exemption from deportation and then hear that this lady was denied asylum... Sickening.

 

This young ex-Muslim lady IS a victim :  (of a retarded ideology )

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-46790542

 

 

Such a beautiful gal. It would a shame for her to have to spend the rest of her life in Saudi Arabia or get the death penalty for breaking her chains. I hope everything works out for her.

 

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aren't people in the UK that think the same way like you do currently being actively chased by the police and secret services for hate speech?

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19 hours ago, WiccaChica said:

What's more disgusting is that the U.K. refused to grant this lady asylum because it would allegedly incite violence in Pakistan. Are we Brits so weak that we allow a foreign mob to dictate our immigration policy?

 

 

 

I think it was more of a fear of unrest at home among the local Muslim population, since the UK has very wisely imported a huge number of Pakistanis over the last half century. They brought their advanced & progressive culture with them, so there would likely be fireworks if the UK dared to express sympathy for someone who allegedly insulted Mo the Pro.

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On 1/8/2019, 8:09:35, mannes said:

just as a reminder, what treatment do the Christians get in Paki??

 

https://www.persecution.org/2019/01/07/christians-face-mounting-discrimination-pakistans-schools/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-it-feels-crime-be-christian-pakistan-n179511

https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/pakistan/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/christian-woman-acquitted-in-pakistan-to-leave-country

 

" Christian woman acquitted in Pakistan after eight years on death row for blasphemy plans to leave the country, her family said Thursday as radical Islamists mounted rallies for a second day against the verdict, blocking roads and burning tires in protest."

 

yet the muslim always the victim...

 

One wrong does not justify the other. 

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On 04/01/2019, 23:36:20, zwiebelfisch said:

Can we please stop conflating capitalism, The West and christianity. They are not the same thing.

 

As much as christians love to take credit for everything in the world and claim that without them the rest of the world would still be in the stoneage, it just simply isnt true. 

 

Anyone who thinks the chinese are somehow unable to think up capitalism on their own and need some dude in a purple frock to do it for them needs to have a little quiet time to reflect on their ideas of other cultures.

 

From the point of view of modern liberal secular democracies of the west, the most important thing christianity has done is to die off quietly allowing people to build a society with exactly the features it is trying to claim for itself. 

 

 

Wut ?

 

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On 05/01/2019, 00:09:01, kiplette said:

 

Absolutely. Ancient Greek and Roman culture and language were the mainstay of a good Western education for a great swathe of history for a good reason. 

 

@WiccaChica

 

 

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