What's left for me in Germany after Chemnitz incident?

180 posts in this topic

Aye, that's me.  The party fascist. :lol:

Krieg, seems maybe you're nit-picking a wee bit.  Who is invited to a house party or how they were  / are invited is not the point.  Obviously, everyone one was invited.  Perhaps though that is.  I could have written that everyone other than the host came from other towns and the host invited them. Then point of the analogy still holds weight.  But I didn't write it that way.

I could have also written it that the host placed a sign in his front yard - Grill Party on Saturday - everyone is invited.  Again, no change.  I think you're missing the point of the analogy mate. 

 

The point made is that this one person made the gathering uncomfortable.  Rather than understanding he has moved to a new environment with different views, beliefs, values, morals he decided to interject his onto others to the point that the host needed to make changes to appease this one person.

 

Allow me to add one thing to this debate.

 

Here in Immenstadt, we have a former Villa outside on the Großer Alpsee that is owned by the Buddhists.  Great lot they are.  Friendly people.  This year they had a Lama from Denmark, Ole Nydahl, who gave a speech.  During his speech, this man stated that Islam is our current danger.  He compared Islam to Stalin and Hitler!  He added that everyone should take gun courses to protect themselves.  His comments were posted locally in newspapers and FB.  I, along with others here, were furious at his comments.  The state's prosecutor is presently working on prosecuting him for his comments.  You can read an article on it here.

 

Nydahl's views are not those of the Dalai Lama and I'd hope not those of 99% of Buddhists.


We have numerous Muslims here and I was offended by his speech.  There is a Muslim couple in the flat next to mine, a Muslim family in the house next door and all are wonderful people.  They simply want to live, raise their families and enjoy life.  No different than me and everyone else.

 

These are not the individuals I take issue with.  Not at all.

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@BayrischDude, you claim you judge people on their individual character (you say your Muslim neighbours are fine). Yet you also say Islam as religion is "too foreign" and thus incompatible. Which is it? You give an analogy of one person coming to your party. The problem with that analogy is of course these are not one person, but thousands of people each with different beliefs and characters. Evidently containing many good people like your neighbours. Yet you generalize this person and imply a Muslim or a person from a predominantly muslim country shouldn't be allowed in your party, because that (being Muslim, coming from a Muslim majority country) is evidence enough they will ruin your party.

 

This is no different from what happened to the Jews in Germany. Jews had different beliefs and behaviors. Some of them were criminals (just like any ethnic group). But then somebody like you started saying "The Jewish are incompatible with Germany", forgetting the fact that there are nice people and bad people among Jews, like any other group of people. You stopped treating them as individual humans, and instead started treating them as if they are a single person, like you did in your analogy.

 

I think it's fine to critisize aspects of cultures - every cultures have parts they don't do well, compared to other cultures. But if you decide an entire culture, and most people who happened to grow up in that culture shouldn't be allowed to live amongst us solely because of that, you are indeed on the same sides as the Nazi.

 

 

Your premise that "the party is ruined" is also laughable (sorry). Germany has never been safer today. The economy is great. Citizen's happiness is at an all time high. It gained prominence on the international stage as the leader of the free world. Party ruined? Hello? Chin up this country is doing great.

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A country is not a house.

 

You run your house to live a good life, to create a space of peace and harmony.

 

Our country's are run as businesses,  profit and economic advancement are it's main concerns. 

 

It's nice to believe that Sweden and Germany pushed this huge influx of people in a bid of humanity, it is nice to believe that.

 

Search on youtube:

 

Human Jose mujica 

 

Its a good starting point if you like to think

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BayrischDude said:

...old belief that women are somehow 'filthy' when they are having their period and it also somehow effects men.

 

To be fair and in an effort to understand whence these beliefs originated I can easily imagine that in times and places where water was/is a luxury item and hygiene a challenge, it probably was/is not nice to be near a menstruating woman, or indeed to be one.

 

Then again a sweaty unwashed bloke would probably impact the comfort (and spiritual balance!) of his female entourage in equal measure.

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1 hour ago, dampstew said:

@BayrischDude, you claim you judge people on their individual character (you say your Muslim neighbours are fine). Yet you also say Islam as religion is "too foreign" and thus incompatible. Which is it? You give an analogy of one person coming to your party. The problem with that analogy is of course these are not one person, but thousands of people each with different beliefs and characters. Evidently containing many good people like your neighbours. Yet you generalize this person and imply a Muslim or a person from a predominantly muslim country shouldn't be allowed in your party, because that (being Muslim, coming from a Muslim majority country) is evidence enough they will ruin your party.

 

This is no different from what happened to the Jews in Germany. Jews had different beliefs and behaviors. Some of them were criminals (just like any ethnic group). But then somebody like you started saying "The Jewish are incompatible with Germany", forgetting the fact that there are nice people and bad people among Jews, like any other group of people. You stopped treating them as individual humans, and instead started treating them as if they are a single person, like you did in your analogy.

 

I think it's fine to critisize aspects of cultures - every cultures have parts they don't do well, compared to other cultures. But if you decide an entire culture, and most people who happened to grow up in that culture shouldn't be allowed to live amongst us solely because of that, you are indeed on the same sides as the Nazi.

 

 

Your premise that "the party is ruined" is also laughable (sorry). Germany has never been safer today. The economy is great. Citizen's happiness is at an all time high. It gained prominence on the international stage as the leader of the free world. Party ruined? Hello? Chin up this country is doing great.

 

Fair questions Dampstew.  But it seems you're not comprehending what you're writing.

 

Look at your very first two sentences:

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you claim you judge people on their individual character (you say your Muslim neighbours are fine). Yet you also say Islam as religion is "too foreign" and thus incompatible. Which is it?

Do you not see the difference there?  Islam, mostly and as I have written here extensively, is the Sharia Law aspects of Islam as a whole and their desire to instill this in to Europe as is presently happening in Belgium.  These are the radical Muslims that cannot co-exist.  What they learn and what is accepted in Syria, Libya, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc., does not and cannot co-exist.  The individuals, much like the young couple next door, with a new baby girl are not the same.  That is judging each person individually.  Yes, the religion is too foreign based upon the values and beliefs and they wish to push these onto us and change our beliefs.  Sorry, but I find honour killings, the hatred and belief that homosexuals should be killed, treating women as second class citizens who need a separate room during a wedding as not co-existing with the rest of the non-Muslim world.  When these matters are not important to the individual or they have personally changed their beliefs to be more on par with Europeans, we can co-exist.

 

Edit:  I came here as a non-German in 1987.  In 2014, I became German.  I brought my beliefs, behaviour, values, and morals with me.  Have those personal characteristics changed?  Of course.  I integrated.  I am, however, not a lemming.  There are certain things about my behaviour that I will not change as they are unique to me, but these do not cause others harm, disrupt society or culture and have zero impact on the government (other than the Finanzamt always having a good laugh at my dialect!)  That is exactly what I'm on about. 

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The problem with that analogy is of course these are not one person, but thousands of people each with different beliefs and characters. Evidently containing many good people like your neighbours. Yet you generalize this person and imply a Muslim or a person from a predominantly muslim country shouldn't be allowed in your party, because that (being Muslim, coming from a Muslim majority country) is evidence enough they will ruin your party.

 

You do understand the point of an analogy, I hope.  To bring a matter to a level that is easier to understand and to relate to.  To compare one's home to a country is not the point.  The point of the analogy is to how this could also be perceived at a personal level.   Also, I did not state this person ruined anything.  My word was 'uncomfortable'.  And is this not the case?  Watch a few videos on Youtube, read some articles, educate yourself from right and left leaning presenters on the matter in Belgium.  The people in Belgium are seriously concerned about their future.  In 2012, enough votes for the Islamic Party were given to provide two seats in Parliament.  The party wishes to install Sharia Law and one of their campaign pledges is separate public transport for men and women.  They feel men harass women and women even harass men on public transport! 

This is the point of the analogy.  Belgium invited people into their country and now they have gained energy to move into Parliament and their religious-law is creeping in and people are uncomfortable and worried.

 

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This is no different from what happened to the Jews in Germany. Jews had different beliefs and behaviors. Some of them were criminals (just like any ethnic group). But then somebody like you started saying "The Jewish are incompatible with Germany", forgetting the fact that there are nice people and bad people among Jews, like any other group of people. You stopped treating them as individual humans, and instead started treating them as if they are a single person, like you did in your analogy.

 

If you don't understand the difference between radical Islam and Judism, that concerns me.  Yes, the Jews were different and had different beliefs and behaviors.  They were treated differently for reasons one cannot compare to radical Muslims.  Seems you need to do some reading on the history of Jews in Europe.  Prior to the 20th Century, the Jewish community performed a valuable service to European communities.  Europeans treated them horrifically since time immemorial due to the Roman Catholic church and their archaic doctrine and misguided ideals.  Go read the 2018 BKA crime stats on homicide in Germany for 2017.

Keep your comments general and respectful.  'You stopped treating them as individual humans, and instead started treating them as if they are a single person, like you did in your analogy.'  I did no such thing.

 

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I think it's fine to critisize aspects of cultures - every cultures have parts they don't do well, compared to other cultures. But if you decide an entire culture, and most people who happened to grow up in that culture shouldn't be allowed to live amongst us solely because of that, you are indeed on the same sides as the Nazi.

 

You have failed miserably to comprehend everything I've previously written.  I suggest and you go back and read it all again.  I also suggest you tread very lightly.  I will give you one warning.  Do not use that vile term (at the end of your sentence) with me again or anyone else for that matter.  If you can only resort to name calling and cannot debate politely and respectful...  just don't.

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3 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

This is blatant exaggeration.  There was ONE single user who posted about the "besorgt" and he/she is not even posting anymore since long time ago (hi @yourkeau, I hope you are doing well).

 

@yourkeau was the primary user of the term "besorgt" but there were others.  

 

The point is that anyone expressing reservations about the successful integration of newcomers or the wisdom of open borders was attacked and smeared.  

 

Search on the term "besorgt" to find any of the numerous threads on which it occurred.  

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When you let people from troubled regions into your peaceful home, they're going to bring their troubles with them. Simple as.

There are people died from refugee crimes already, some are young girls, shame on those of you who try to play this situation down. This society has changed since the gates were opened to a flood of asylum seekers. The law has to change too to give more protection to residents, especially young women.

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@BayrischDude you wrote a lot of text but that doesn’t erase the simple theme in your posts.

 

You claim you are opposed to extremism. All religions have extremists. Yet you single out Islam and for example suggest “Islam and Judaism is “different”” in the sense that Judaism doesn’t have the problems Islam has.

 

This is what is called discrimination by religion. By all means condem the extreme, bad individual *practices*. But you can not condem people who follow a religion as a group. You cannot suggest one religion is better in general, compared to other religions.

 

This is why Holocause happened and why German and European constitution explicitly forbids it.

 

And the term “uncomfortable”... that’s kinda telling if you ask me.

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4 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

hmmm

 

 

@MikeMelga was owned really hard by @someonesdaughter.  Solid hard.   Mike manipulated the question of the poll to make it look like something else.    

Your perspective. The conclusion is absolutely the same. You don't like my opinion, so you bash where you can. If I wanted to "manipulate" it, I would not have placed a link, right?

 

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15 hours ago, BayrischDude said:

' in African culture during our ancestors time, man and women don’t share same room or eat in same plate because of unexpected menstrual period from her which will contaminate her husbands spiritual energy. But Europeans came and destroyed that beautiful culture. Men were highly spiritual back then but nowadays man and woman share same bed even when she is her period and this is why men of today are spiritually weak. European civilization for Africans created a lot of misleading and manipulations.'

 

While the author of that is from Africa, others from Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries chimed in how this is correct thinking.

 

The comments that followed are incredible.  Truly.  Everything from the reason the wedding party only shows men, is that the women are in a separate room - including the bride - to the thought of a women having her period and as she is 'tainted' men should not come near her. 

One woman responded with, 'if a woman's period contaminates your spiritual energy, it must have been really weak to begin with'.  Beautiful response!

 

Yes, western societies believed the same thing for many, many years, centuries ago.  But we progressed.

 

So, again, is this thinking compatible in Europe in 2018 or other non-Muslim dominated societies? 

 

Also, again, I have spent time in these countries.  I did get on very well with the people, so long as we discussed anything other than politics and religion.  Food, culture, sport, art, etc.  They are warm people who are quite giving and very hospitable.  But when it comes to their religious and political ideology, it's too foreign and too rooted in old morals and values to co-exist in 21st Century western societies.

I heard the same shit from a guy from Bangladesh. He said he was studying european history on his free time and then realized that we lost our spirituality with Enlightnment.

And he said that "they" (muslims) would fix it.

 

He told me that when he was 20 he met a special type of Iman that posesses magical powers. Quoting: "I was drawn to him like a magnet. At that moment I realized I would do anything he would ask me".

He also told me that when he came to Germany there were none of these "magic imans" here. But that they were bringing them here and they would "restore our spirituality".

 

That was the moment when I realized that islam is not compatible with Europe. I read the quran to undderstand if it was just a nutcase, but it is not the case.

 

BTW, he was an electrotechnic engineer, not some dumbass with low IQ.

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@MikeMelga: All the 9/11 guys had degrees and some even studied in Germany.

There are already a lot of people here, who want to "restore our spirituality" - with knives.

Since we are not allowed to carry weapons in Germany, I keep distance.

 

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To put the original poster hopefully at ease...

Maybe someone that can read German can find out who is the most at risk group in germany of being attacked or assaulted.

 

Would bè interesting to know, since if the o/p is in a low risk category( a nice Muslim guy randomly attacked by racists), who is it that really needs to think about fleeing the country?

 

 

 

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oh come on, you don't need deep statistics to know that women and children are the most likely to be victims of violence in any society.

 

or are you just talking about the menfolk?  Actually that's kind of funny, considering the preponderance of menfolk who (apparently) left their more vulnerable women and children behind to save their own asses from violence?

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4 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

oh come on, you don't need deep statistics to know that women and children are the most likely to be victims of violence in any society.

 

You might think so, but that doesnt appear to be true in germany:

 

https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Wer-ist-hier-eigentlich-das-typische-Opfer-3209897.html

 

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Männer werden 1,5-mal so häufig Opfer

Männer sind insgesamt deutlich häufiger Opfer von Mord und Totschlag, Raub und Körperverletzung. Frauen sind deutlich häufiger Opfer von Straftaten gegen die sexuelle Selbstbestimmung. Letztere machen mit 0,8% jedoch nur einen Bruchteil der erfassten Straftaten insgesamt aus. So kommen beispielsweise Körperverletzungen zehnmal häufiger vor

 

Of course, just for the record there is no joy in these numbers for either sex.

 

Men are of course also more likely to be the perpetrators, but that doesnt change the fact that women are, unexpectedly perhaps, safer on the streets than men, especially men in their 20s.

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funny that this part is glossed over a bit with these assertions that men are more likely to be victims:

 

"Natürlich bedeutet das nicht, dass nicht auch viele Frauen Opfer schwerer Straftaten würden. Gemäß der nach wie vor maßgeblichen Prävalenzstudie des Bundesfrauenministeriums aus dem Jahr 2004 gaben 6% der repräsentativ befragten Frauen an, mindestens einmal im Leben vergewaltigt worden zu sein. Insgesamt erwähnten 13% der Frauen Opfererfahrungen mit strafrechtlich relevanten Formen sexueller Gewalt.

 

Da Menschen mehrmals Opfer derselben Straftat werden können, geben die Zahlen der Prävalenzstudie jedoch keine Auskunft über die jährliche Häufigkeit der Verbrechen. Der Bundesverband der Frauenberatungsstellen und Frauennotrufe in Deutschland spricht von jährlich 7000 bis 8000 polizeilich angezeigten Vergewaltigungen. Allerdings würden nur ca. 5% der vergewaltigten Frauen diese Taten auch zur Anzeige bringen. "

 

eta:  there is also no discussion whatsoever of the nature or circumstances of the bodily injuries among young men...like how often are they the result of mutual participation in an altercation, which, strangely enough, is quite a bit more common among (especially young) men?  risk is highest around 20 years old...something a bit stinky there.  

 

and somehow I'm guessing these statistics also don't include domestic violence.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BayrischDude said:

Sorry, but I find honour killings ...

 

Something very ironic about honor killings, at least from the legal point of view, honor killings in most countries where they exist/existed are/were based on a French law, the Code 324 from the Napoleonic Code.

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I very much suspect that the concept of honour killings is quite a bit older than the Napoleonic Code.

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Of course the concept yes, but I was talking about what made it LEGAL in many countries.

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4 hours ago, dampstew said:

@BayrischDude you wrote a lot of text but that doesn’t erase the simple theme in your posts.

 

You claim you are opposed to extremism. All religions have extremists.

 

 

Do you have your head buried in the sand?  You can't be that ignorant. 

 

All religions do have their extremists.  I agree.  But when was the last time a Mormon carried out a suicide bombing?  Haven't heard of any Buddhists conduct an honour killing.  Last time I checked, men and women Roman Catholics eat at the same table.  Haven't heard of any American Southern Baptists hijacking a plane.  Have yet to hear of person from the Anglican faith drive a truck into a crowd of holiday shoppers.  And, I have yet to hear of a Jew calling on all Jews to take up arms and rid the world of the infidel. Maybe, it's just me.

 

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Yet you single out Islam and for example suggest “Islam and Judaism is “different”” in the sense that Judaism doesn’t have the problems Islam has.

 

I was responding to your remark.  Are you not keeping up on this?  I quote from your own words,

 

'This is no different from what happened to the Jews in Germany. Jews had different beliefs and behaviors. Some of them were criminals (just like any ethnic group). But then somebody like you started saying "The Jewish are incompatible with Germany", forgetting the fact that there are nice people and bad people among Jews, like any other group of people. You stopped treating them as individual humans, and instead started treating them as if they are a single person, like you did in your analogy.' 

 

You decided to compare the two with the term incompatible.  I do understand what you're on about, but to compare our feelings today with the European attitude of Jews back in the 14th or 15th Century, is like apples and oranges.  During that time, people were not as informed and blindly followed the church.  Usury is dirty as is money, so let the Jews do it and let's place them in a Ghetto.  People didn't fear for their lives in regards to the Jews like we do today with Muslim extremists.  How many bombings will it take for people to acknowledge it's a huge problem.

 

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This is what is called discrimination by religion. By all means condem the extreme, bad individual *practices*. But you can not condem people who follow a religion as a group. You cannot suggest one religion is better in general, compared to other religions.

 

Once again, comprehension.  I have condemned no one and no religion.  I am stating for the last time, the Muslims who wish to come here and install Sharia Law is what I am against.  This form of Islam cannot coexist here.  Again, perhaps this time you'll read you and it will sink in, I take no issue to anyone who comes to Germany or any place in Europe and integrates to a reasonable point.  Practice their religion, hold beliefs and values so long as they are near to the ones each country has.  If they chose to join governments to improve them, fine.  Again no problem.  But only to the extent that their archaic religion law is not installed. If you are happy living under Sharia Law, then I invite you to move to a middle eastern country.  Get a wee taste for it.  If that doesn't suit, then perhaps wait a decade or so when it comes here and then tell me how much you enjoy living under these laws.  You won't.

 

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This is why Holocause happened and why German and European constitution explicitly forbids it.

 

This shows you are not reading and comprehending what I'm writing.  I already corrected you on that.  There is no European Constitution.

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37 minutes ago, BayrischDude said:

I am stating for the last time, the Muslims who wish to come here and install Sharia Law is what I am against.  This form of Islam cannot coexist here. 

 

The point I think you are making is 100% valid and correct and has nothing to do with people being muslim or otherwise.  It is about installing an alternate legal system that is incompatible with modern German law.

 

Should fundamentalist christians attempt to bring in full on biblical law with death for adultery (Leviticus 20:10) I would be just as much against it as I would be if any other religion tried to get such a system in place.

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