What's left for me in Germany after Chemnitz incident?

[MikeMelga 7,254]

1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

Those murder rate statistics by itself are meaningless because they are normally linked to risk groups and that information is never provided, and in most cases it is not even possible to gather it.

 

For example, my country has a very high rate of criminality, including high murder rate.   However I feel quite safe there because I don't belong to any of the risk groups.    Yes, shit can happen, but shit happens everywhere, as long as I do not put myself as a target I will be in general OK.

That is a bullshit argument. You can always "feel safe" if you restrict your zone or friends.

It is a falacious argument, that it is safe, "except for some isolated parts". Well, if you use the same judgment in really safe countries like Germany, then you could even "feel safer"!

 

Btw, which country are you from?

[Krieg 14,935]

5 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Let's be pragmatic. Which western country has death penalty for homosexuality?

 

 

None of course.   

 

But since you are now pragmatic, even in the Muslim countries where the death penalty still exist in the law, it is almost never carried out.   When it happens it is normally executed by militias.

 

 

P.S., Funny fact: in some parts in the US it is illegal to practice anal sex in general.

[Krieg 14,935]

7 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

That is a bullshit argument. You can always "feel safe" if you restrict your zone or friends.

It is a falacious argument, that it is safe, "except for some isolated parts". Well, if you use the same judgment in really safe countries like Germany, then you could even "feel safer"!

 

If vigilantes in your city are targeting brown people then it would be normal for a brown person to feel in danger.   While the white people will "wisely" tell you, do not worry, the chance of that happening is very low, but they are including all the white population while calculating that "chance".

[lisa13 12,245]

I get it, events like this make one feel more vulnerable if they somehow make you think you're now "special"...but come on.  No place on earth is immune to violence.  It comes in different flavors but viewing a single incident as a harbinger of doom is a bit over the top.

 

If I had the same attitude the OP does I'd have to crawl under a rock as there seems to be a trend going around that females are so very often the ones raped or sexually abused.

 

Take your precautions to avoid risky situations and live your life.  

 

oh, and grow a pair.

 

 

[MikeMelga 7,254]

11 hours ago, dampstew said:

 

 

@MikeMelga I honestly don't know where to start. But let's take this

 Like... have you ever read the bible? Do you think it's better than the Quran?

 

Yes, both old and new testament, and also read Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon, and even bothered to write a list of Portuguese translation mistakes (long story, funny one).

All those books are about one thing: a divine power that allows you to control the masses.

Both the old testament and the quran promote bigotry. The new testament does not, as far as I remember.

One major difference with the quran is that it promotes violence. There is some in the old testament, but not on the same level.

 

So, do I think the bible is better than the quran? In terms of efficacy, they are both very powerful, they gave rise to the world's largest religions. So as a tool of power, they are equally good.

In terms of social impact relevant to the discussion, the quran clearly promotes violence and bigotry. The old testament also does it, although not so much on  the violence. The new testament is mostly (if not all ) clear of bigotry and violence promotion.

 

Quote

Yeah sure... US Muslims 'now more accepting of homosexuality than white evangelical Protestants', research finds. 28% of young muslim think same sex marriage should be legal. Have you heard of Sadiq Kahn? Do you know what his policies are?

So which western countries have death penalty for homosexuality again?

 

Quote

Let's see who is threatening "our" secular rules in Europe and USA. Any muslims threatening secular rules in Italy, UK, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Sweden, Russia, USA? Nope, just Christians!

Of course they are! What do you think Sharia courts do? Don't you see left wing parties courting muslims for their votes? One interesting example: Jeremy Corbin's Jewish hate. Gained him a lot of votes from muslims, that's for sure. UK's tolerance on radical islamic schools is also an example. Now imagine when they double their presence.

 

[BayrischDude 2,071]

1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

You had me until this bit.   40 something percent of Mexican population is white and 18% is blond.

 

Krieg, I lived on my grandfather's ranch outside Sabinas in the 1960s and early 1970s.   There wasn't another white person around, that I recall.  Me sister looked more Mexican than I did, as she had brown hair and mother's skin tone.  I would venture a guess that the stats you offered and found are current and while I do believe them, could they be boosted by larger cities?  Sabinas was or is quite rural.  I doubt that area of Mexico is 18% blond.  Could be today, but nearly 45-50 years ago, it definitely wasn't mate.

[swimmer 3,706]

38 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

 One interesting example: Jeremy Corbin's Jewish hate. Gained him a lot of votes from muslims, that's for sure. 

 

Is it? That sounds like an unfounded assertion.  More fake news.

 

And you even spell the poltician's name incorrectly, which also can be a sign it's just reported fake news.  If the most basic fact in the sentence like that is wrong, the rest of it becomes much harder to believe.   Just sounds like inflammatory hate-stirring.

 

PS - Homosexuality is not illegal in my western country but an having abortion is, in part of it.   Some of us do live in nations with such pre-historic bigotry.

[Imam Bux 24]

I feel sorry for starting this thread! I wish I could delete this post. I can not see people discussing on sensitive topics. But you know guys! At the end, we are all one, we are human beings. If you mess up in space with alien, they would conclude humans(or "&&(§()")§(/" whatever) are evil, they won't say a Muslim or Christian did this. I know this is dumb example but you got the idea.

[MikeMelga 7,254]

4 minutes ago, swimmer said:

 

Is it? That sounds like an unfounded assertion.  More fake news.

 

And you even spell the poltician's name incorrectly.  If the most basic fact in the sentence like that is wrong, the rest of it becomes much harder to believe.   Just sounds like inflammatory hate-stirring.

Both names exist, they are, AFAIK, homophones. Is that the best argument you have?

 

4 minutes ago, swimmer said:

 

PS - Homosexuality is not illegal in my western country but an having abortion is, in part of it.   Some of us do live in nations with such pre-historic bigotry.

So your argument will be void in a few years, while mine will be reinforced.  Thanks!

 

[dampstew 125]

Alright, I better check off before I get more brain damage.

 

Really sad that one of the most prominent forum about Germany - the proud refugee welcome nation who refused to succumb to hatred and ignorance and saved countless lives - harbors so many islamaphobes and racists.

 

I’m proud everywhere in Germany, decent and kind Germans and non-Germans are standing up to petty haters, xenophobes and racists.

 

So, get out of the way because whether you like it or not, the world is getting more diverse, more liberal, nicer and kinder.

 

 

 

 

[swimmer 3,706]

19 minutes ago, Imam Bux said:

I can not see people discussing on sensitive topics. 

 

Well, as others say, welcome to the real world here.  We do talk about this stuff.  All the time.   You certainly won't be able to avoid it in a university or professional setting in Germany or the US.   You need to grow a thicker skin or you won't like it here.   Germany and the US are much safer and better places than Pakistan for many - but they are not utopia, unlike what many foreigners expect.  

 

I guess you were not allowed to discuss the political instability and violence (in all settings) in Pakistan, and the murders of politicians like Bhutto in quite the same way.   So perhaps you have some residual trauma from growing up in an unstable, somewhat violent state?

 

It sounds like you have substantial culture shock.   It must be a surprise from having grown up in a place like Pakistan to find how much freer and easier it is here.  This is normal for students, and your University can help you out with support.  As a post above says, the world won't change for you.   Migration is a tough path.

 

I am also not sure it is a good idea to use many message boards if you do not like "discussing sensitive subjects".   Most people would probably advise it's a better idea to keep away, for the good of your mental health.   Western Universities are another place where sensitive subjects are discussed all the time as well, so possibly also not a good place for you, unless you work on a more robust mindset.

[Jonny 1,324]

2 minutes ago, dampstew said:

Really sad that one of the most prominent forum about Germany - the proud refugee welcome nation who refused to succumb to hatred and ignorance and saved countless lives - harbors so many islamaphobes and racists.

 

When you read stories like this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amsterdam-station-stabbing/man-who-stabbed-american-tourists-in-amsterdam-names-wilders-cites-insults-to-islam-idUSKCN1LJ1WZ

 

You begin to think that maybe the Islamophobes have a point. 

[john g. 37,690]

1 hour ago, dampstew said:

Alright, I better check off before I get more brain damage.

 

Really sad that one of the most prominent forum about Germany - the proud refugee welcome nation who refused to succumb to hatred and ignorance and saved countless lives - harbors so many islamaphobes and racists.

 

I’m proud everywhere in Germany, decent and kind Germans and non-Germans are standing up to petty haters, xenophobes and racists.

 

So, get out of the way because whether you like it or not, the world is getting more diverse, more liberal, nicer and kinder.

 

 

 

 

Hm, if the world is getting more diverse, more liberal , nicer and kinder/- why are all these migrants moving to Germany, Sweden etc? Surely a contradiction? Ie the world is full of shitty , intolerant and illiberal societies...!

[Returning 407]

2 hours ago, Imam Bux said:

I feel sorry for starting this thread! I wish I could delete this post. I can not see people discussing on sensitive topics. But you know guys! At the end, we are all one, we are human beings. If you mess up in space with alien, they would conclude humans(or "&&(§()")§(/" whatever) are evil, they won't say a Muslim or Christian did this. I know this is dumb example but you got the idea.

 

Well, people are out there discussing these topics, it's what we do.  Isn't it better to be part of the conversation, both to see/hear what people think, and to maybe give your perspective?  As Swimmer said, this is a fairly integral part of German, western European and American society.  Wouldn't it be better if the mobs in Chemnitz had stuck to talking?  Wouldn't it be better if the Syrian and Iraqi who stabbed the guy in Chemnitz had stuck to arguing?  

 

A question- why have you come to Germany?  Besides the 'free' University?  What is it about German society that makes that free university possible? What is it about German or American society that makes the market for software engineers so good?  What is is about German society that makes you generally feel safe, and makes this mob violence in Chemnitz stand out?

[Krieg 14,935]

3 hours ago, BayrischDude said:

 

Krieg, I lived on my grandfather's ranch outside Sabinas in the 1960s and early 1970s.   There wasn't another white person around, that I recall.  Me sister looked more Mexican than I did, as she had brown hair and mother's skin tone.  I would venture a guess that the stats you offered and found are current and while I do believe them, could they be boosted by larger cities?  Sabinas was or is quite rural.  I doubt that area of Mexico is 18% blond.  Could be today, but nearly 45-50 years ago, it definitely wasn't mate.

 

 

Of course I have zero idea of the exact place you used to live and how it was during those days.   But to add more irony to your story, Sabinas is located in the Coahuila state, which is well known as one of the whitest states in the whole country, together with Monterrey and Tamaulipas.   

 

 

 

[MikeMelga 7,254]

1 hour ago, dampstew said:

Really sad that one of the most prominent forum about Germany - the proud refugee welcome nation who refused to succumb to hatred and ignorance and saved countless lives - harbors so many islamaphobes and racists.

So you still don't regret that mistake?

 

1 hour ago, dampstew said:

 

I’m proud everywhere in Germany, decent and kind Germans and non-Germans are standing up to petty haters, xenophobes and racists.

I could say the same regarding decent and kind Germans and non-Germans who are standing up to this security and social nightmare.

 

1 hour ago, dampstew said:

 

So, get out of the way because whether you like it or not, the world is getting more diverse, more liberal, nicer and kinder.

Lalaland? Are you serious??? Look at Trump, Erdogan, Maduro, Putin, etc!

I wish it would become more liberal, nicer and kinder, but it is not.

[Imam Bux 24]

1 hour ago, Returning said:

why have you come to Germany?  Besides the 'free' University?

The Germans culture, they are family oriented people. They don't disturb anyone until and unless it is very much required. They focus on standard of life rather than earning big bucks. Also, they have kept their language intact which to me is very good reason to come here because of this thing not every person lives in Germany. I can not imagine today's Germany if they have adopted English. I respect that. For now, it is a language barrier but once I learn German, it will be the strong point for me in this society.

 

2 hours ago, Returning said:

What is it about German society that makes that free university possible? What is it about German or American society that makes the market for software engineers so good? 

I am not sure. May be because they want to attract talented pool of people in the particular industries. I have seen my Professors so keen to make us learn German so we can adopt the culture and feel like home here. I respect that too obviously because I return I am getting very good treatment and I have seen German people smiling while I speak broken language. They appreciate my broken German.

 

2 hours ago, Returning said:

What is is about German society that makes you generally feel safe, and makes this mob violence in Chemnitz stand out?

It should blame media in my country because they cover US news as an International news and I had never heard or made myself aware of the challenges Germany is facing. So, I expected it to be safest country in the world. But you know what, I have made many US and Australian friends during my international study, they seem to praise Germany more than their own country in terms of every single thing, this makes me feel confident of my decision coming in Germany. I feel so positive about this that if anything happens here, I kind of get upset. I have seen the worst in my country Pakistan. It is just I don't want to see for the rest of my life.

 

I have had strong bondings with the small town I live in here. Long live Germany and may peace be here and in Pakistan.

[Returning 407]

1 minute ago, Imam Bux said:

 

I am not sure. May be because they want to attract talented pool of people in the particular industries. I have seen my Professors so keen to make us learn German so we can adopt the culture and feel like home here. I respect that too obviously because I return I am getting very good treatment and I have seen German people smiling while I speak broken language. They appreciate my broken German.

 

This is the effect.  Having a strong economy and being willing to attract and hire the best people for the job is the effect.  Professors available to teach anyone, even 'brown foreigners' is the effect.  People being welcoming to you is the effect.  Why do you think German society (and yes, still to a large effect in the U.S., the right wing and Trump notwithstanding, especially on the liberal coasts) is this way? 

[swimmer 3,706]

We are now in an era where perceived "safety" of a nation is of high value.   It's got high worth.   It's a huge attractant for many migrants and those that just want a second home.   Not just you, and not just me.

 

But of course that perception is global.  The corrupt and the devious are just as keen to live in  "the world's safest countries" as you and I are.   Often more so, for obvious reasons .   So are huge numbers of the world's poorest and the world's richest.   And many in between.

 

Your desire for that is shared by approximately 7 billion people, not just you and me.   So logically something might have to give.

 

Your last statement is spot on.  At unstable times, one of the best responses is to strengthen our own communities and build up our own lives (family, social, professional and others) .

[MikeMelga 7,254]

7 hours ago, dampstew said:

Really sad that one of the most prominent forum about Germany - the proud refugee welcome nation who refused to succumb to hatred and ignorance and saved countless lives - harbors so many islamaphobes and racists.

 

I’m proud everywhere in Germany, decent and kind Germans and non-Germans are standing up to petty haters, xenophobes and racists.

 

ARD poll from June shows that 62% of Germans support stopping refugees at the border. Only 31% state the opposite. Contrary to your narrative, even the far left showed some support for this.

https://www.infratest-dimap.de/umfragen-analysen/bundesweit/ard-deutschlandtrend/2018/juni-extra/

 

My friend, you are the minority. What are you proud about?

 

Is it possible that, as usual, the far left creates a speech that this is only a small percentage of "racists" who have this position? Are you a democrat? Can you accept that the majority of Germans are opposed to this?