What's left for me in Germany after Chemnitz incident?

180 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, Imam Bux said:

I am Masters student, living in Hessen, from Pakistan. I came in this country (like others) last year for further studies and for the bright future. I, like any student, had any country to go but because Germany is offering free education and providing the good market for the Software Engineers so, I came here.

 

The recent incident in Chemnitz is indeed the worst thing to happen in any society and no human can deny that. However, because of the current wave, I don't know if I am walking down the street at random day and some native German considers me one of those people who rapes, kills (because of the stereotypes) and stabs me. I have invested my 1.5 years, paid taxes, contributed in the society and I am willing to do as much as I can for Germany.

 

Now, I am considering to move to US. Is my fear right? Can I visit any city in (East) Germany any time without any fear? Am I, as an international and muslim student, liability on this country? Will I be the victim of political unstability of the country?

 

Your enhanced sense of risk is totally reasonable and your questions are worth contemplating.  

 

I would look at cities on a case by case basis.   I don't agree with broad, sweeping generalizations about the east.   Most of the people are friendly and genuine, but there are areas with problems.  I wouldn't leave the country over it.  

 

Good luck.

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10 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

 

Let's forget rapes and killing for a second. I would like to know your positions about the following topics:

1) women's equality to men

2) right for a Muslim women to leave Islam or marry a non Muslim

3) our right to make fun of Mohammed and Allah

4) law of men over law of god

5) Homosexuality acceptance

...

If you want to do as much as you can for Germany, you will have to change religion. Islam is not compatible with Europe.

 

Let me ask you one thing: what would happen to a German women wondering around alone in Pakistan by herself?

Grow a pair and complain less!

 

 

This is like the rich person telling the poor person just stop being poor and become rich.

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11 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

 

Let's forget rapes and killing for a second. I would like to know your positions about the following topics:

1) women's equality to men

2) right for a Muslim women to leave Islam or marry a non Muslim

3) our right to make fun of Mohammed and Allah

4) law of men over law of god

5) Homosexuality acceptance

This is why I was afraid to post my concern here. Did I in any way compared religion? Every religion is good, it's we people have made it worse. But as you have raised your concerns, I will try my best to reply them (based on my understanding).

 

1) Women are equal, actually they are above in terms of respect. If you see them in burqa, that is the tradition and culture of that area, has nothing to do with religion. But sadly, Islam is the most misunderstood and also wrongly practiced.

 

2) I think it is same for the men but some does it whenever they find the right person, irrespective of the religion. Why marriage means leaving a religion (does not make sense)!

 

3) Well, there are you! There has been billions of the people but somehow Muhammad seems to be fun for everyone. Well, you always have edge on that one because we can never make fun of Jesus and Moses because they are crucial part of our belief and if we make fun of any religion, we are not Muslims then.

 

4) I am not able to answer this question. Sorry.

 

5) You are right, Islam never accepts this.

 

12 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

If you want to do as much as you can for Germany, you will have to change religion. Islam is not compatible with Europe.

What religion has to do with a country. I believe you should be a nice person, respect everyone, give your best and that's it. More than 34% Germans are of irreligion.

 

12 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Let me ask you one thing: what would happen to a German women wondering around alone in Pakistan by herself?

I never compared Pakistan with Germany. There is no comparison. Germany is the great nation in every possible way. We are terrible down there in Pakistan. She will be gazed by the people in the streets but just you know my friend she will never be raped. I don't know about the other countries.

 

11 hours ago, esqualidus said:

as a smart person you should not stereotype, as you ask not to be stereotyped yourself.

Thank You! You are right. I won't.

 

10 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

Are you really such a Nieve fuckwit?

The Hessische police are not permitted to comment nor report on such behaviour!

 

But you keep posting this bile!

 

You bounded back into Toytown, playing the "besser wisser"... but really only want people to know that you bought many properties...

 

it puts you in the same league as Jeremytwo and me!

 

 

I am sorry as it seems I am one of them. I won't post such stuff again. Thank You for the comment.

 

10 hours ago, catjones said:

When you ask the questions you do, it shows a lack of maturity.  You want someone to tell you your future and that is a child's wish.  Maybe you should add Humanities to your schooling.

Point noted! :) Thanks for the feedback.

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4 minutes ago, Imam Bux said:

This is why I was afraid to post my concern here. Did I in any way compared religion? Every religion is good, it's we people have made it worse. But as you have raised your concerns, I will try my best to reply them (based on my understanding).

Every religion is a necessary evil to control the masses. It is a tool. It is also a tool for power.

Unfortunately this tool is getting out of control, so we need to restrain its usage.

 

4 minutes ago, Imam Bux said:

 

1) Women are equal, actually they are above in terms of respect. If you see them in burqa, that is the tradition and culture of that area, has nothing to do with religion. But sadly, Islam is the most misunderstood and also wrongly practiced.

Bullshit. Are you denying a current trend to force women into using Burqa? If you have a sister, will she receive the same share of the inheritance as you? What does the Quran say about women? Can a women marry multiple men?

 

4 minutes ago, Imam Bux said:

 

2) I think it is same for the men but some does it whenever they find the right person, irrespective of the religion. Why marriage means leaving a religion (does not make sense)!

It is a double question.

Apostasy is forbidden and even punished with death in many Islamic-ruled countries. What is your opinion on it?

The same is true for interfaith marriages when the women is muslim. What is your opinion on that?

 

4 minutes ago, Imam Bux said:

 

3) Well, there are you! There has been billions of the people but somehow Muhammad seems to be fun for everyone. Well, you always have edge on that one because we can never make fun of Jesus and Moses because they are crucial part of our belief and if we make fun of any religion, we are not Muslims then.

You did not answer the question. Jesus is quite fun for us too, there are undreds of jokes regarding Jesus.

4 minutes ago, Imam Bux said:

 

4) I am not able to answer this question. Sorry.

 

5) You are right, Islam never accepts this.

Thank you for being honest.

 

So basically you did not answer most of the questions and you confirmed (5) ) some incompatibilities.

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Just now, MikeMelga said:

Bullshit. Are you denying a current trend to force women into using Burqa? If you have a sister, will she receive the same share of the inheritance as you? What does the Quran say about women? Can a women marry multiple men?

 

I do not understand your question. If a muslim woman is divorced or her husband dies or her marriage breaks for whatever reason, then she can marry again. Can you give me any example in whole f**king world where a woman has two husbands at a time? What kind of question was that? This clearly shows how ignorant one can be when he comments on a religion but all he relied was on information he read some where on internet (posted by similar people)

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53 minutes ago, Imam Bux said:

This is why I was afraid to post my concern here. Did I in any way compared religion?

But as you have raised your concerns, I will try my best to reply them (based on my understanding).

 

1) Women are equal, actually they are above in terms of respect. If you see them in burqa, that is the tradition and culture of that area, has nothing to do with religion. But sadly, Islam is the most misunderstood and also wrongly practiced.

 

2) I think it is same for the men but some does it whenever they find the right person, irrespective of the religion. Why marriage means leaving a religion (does not make sense)!

 

3) Well, there are you! There has been billions of the people but somehow Muhammad seems to be fun for everyone. Well, you always have edge on that one because we can never make fun of Jesus and Moses because they are crucial part of our belief and if we make fun of any religion, we are not Muslims then.

 

4) I am not able to answer this question. Sorry.

 

5) You are right, Islam never accepts this.

 

What religion has to do with a country. I believe you should be a nice person, respect everyone, give your best and that's it. More than 34% Germans are of irreligion.

 

I make it a practice to avoid religion and political threads on TT, however... this comment is begging it.
 

Quote

Every religion is good, it's we people have made it worse.

 

Where did religion come from?  People!  People created religions.  Regardless of who or what one believes, their 'deity' did not claim, 'start a religion, cult or following'. These people created a book and people followed it. People created it.  Religions are good and bad.  Most of the bad comes down to 'my deity, morals and beliefs are better than yours'.  Rubbish.  

 

Quote

1) Women are equal, actually they are above in terms of respect. If you see them in burqa, that is the tradition and culture of that area, has nothing to do with religion. But sadly, Islam is the most misunderstood and also wrongly practiced.

 

Rubbish.  Where do you think the idea of the burqa came from?  A little studying will show that the documented start of women wearing the burqa came at the same time as the start of the Muslim religion - 622ce.

 

The biggest issue with Islam is it's failure to progress.  To look at beliefs based on the times when it began - near 1400 years ago - and to not consider change is in it's self a flaw.  Everything changes as people do.  Time changes, morals change, beliefs change.  To hold 1400 years old doctrine as true is a flaw.  Christianity is no different on that issue.  It too has it's flaws, but it does change, albeit slowly. 

 

Quote

3) Well, there are you! There has been billions of the people but somehow Muhammad seems to be fun for everyone. Well, you always have edge on that one because we can never make fun of Jesus and Moses because they are crucial part of our belief and if we make fun of any religion, we are not Muslims then.

 

Not following you on this.  Are you saying the world cannot make fun of Jesus or only Muslims cannot?  Christians take no issue to humour involving Jesus.  They do it often.  If you are referring to Muslims not making fun of Jesus, then I would say, 'lighten the fook up!'  Perhaps this is one small area the rest of the world takes issue with Islam.  The inability to laugh, joke and make fun.  If one is so tightly wound on a belief system that they cannot find humour in it's failings, it is a huge fault.  It is a sign that the belief system, in their own mind, is perfect and nothing, I mean nothing is absolutely perfect.  To laugh at it's imperfections is to be human.

 

I love the law.  I stood behind it professionally for over two decades.  But is the law perfect?  Not even close and so I would often laugh and make fun of it, due to it's flaws.  That showed that I am human, but still have respect for it.  I follow no formal religion.  I am simply spiritual.  Whatever the fook that means.  And I obviously make fun of my own belief.  Why?  Because my beliefs are flawed, as am I! 

 

When a westerner goes to a middle eastern country, their laws, which are founded in Islam must be followed.  Women must cover their heads (burqa).  No public displays of affection. Women cannot drive a car.  No alcohol, etc.  To not follow these religious based laws can land a non-muslim in prison. 

In the west, laws are also based upon religion.  Thou shalt not murder, steal or commit adultery.  Adultery was illegal, but has fallen away since... well, you know.  Short of that, religious based laws in the west have disappeared over time.  People have progressed and these laws were viewed as archaic and limited individuality. Islam does not recognise that. 

 

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34 minutes ago, dreamer15 said:

 

I do not understand your question. If a muslim woman is divorced or her husband dies or her marriage breaks for whatever reason, then she can marry again. Can you give me any example in whole f**king world where a woman has two husbands at a time? What kind of question was that? This clearly shows how ignorant one can be when he comments on a religion but all he relied was on information he read some where on internet (posted by similar people)

 

 

The question has very bad intentions.  It is based in the point that Islam allows a man to marry to up to 4 women but women are not allowed to marry multiple men.

 

But then you have to analyze why it is like that.  Islam was a very modern religion when it started, so for long time often married men had mistresses, so Islam being modern and open mind at the time decided to just let the men marry a couple of times instead of having mistresses and bringing "bastard" kids into the world.   If that's bad or good I do not know, but you can see that the "original problem" is still pretty common in the western world, married men still have plenty of affairs, the only difference is that now married women have as well affairs, so you could say the thing is now "fair".    Still if you check how many Muslim men marry multiple wives you will see that it is a tiny minority and most Muslim men marry only one wife.   Of course haters are gonna hate.

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39 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

The question has very bad intentions. 

Ah, the question is bad. Classic manipulative argument.

I used to consider myself open, liberal and moderate. I hate the Daily Fail. Meanwhile I think the most pertinent statement on this thread is that the values of Islam (even moderate Islam) and the values of an historically Judeo-Christian Western Europe are incompatible. It is true. Oil and water.

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2 minutes ago, optimista said:

the values of Islam (even moderate Islam) and the values of an historically Judeo-Christian Western Europe are incompatible. It is true. Oil and water.

 

This only shows your lack of knowledge of Judeo-Christian values.   Because they are mostly more retrograde and brutal than the Muslim ones.

 

Western Europe is what it is precisely because people have been slowly walking away from the Judeo-Christian values or at least they cherry-pick them.

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Back to the Inquisition? Absolutely.

 

I know, we all need educating. But I really don't buy it. The mix is not working. And will not work.

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Those "values" and those of many other religions certainly seem very similar to a lot of women and girls, of course.     Large number of boy children also got treated abominably from "religion" as practiced by our western religions too.    Anyone who is not a privileged male seems often to be fair game when it comes to religion - same as Army cannon fodder - so it's really only that group that has the luxury of pretending there's a difference.

 

Several thousand people killed in my home nation (UK) on the basis of "Christianity" during my lifetime as well.   Being killed on the grounds of religion was rather more than an abstract worry in my "Christian" nation when I was young, and a very serious risk in one part of it.   Other religions would have to go some to be worse.  

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1 hour ago, BayrischDude said:

Not following you on this.  Are you saying the world cannot make fun of Jesus or only Muslims cannot?  Christians take no issue to humour involving Jesus.  They do it often.  If you are referring to Muslims not making fun of Jesus, then I would say, 'lighten the fook up!'  Perhaps this is one small area the rest of the world takes issue with Islam.  The inability to laugh, joke and make fun.  If one is so tightly wound on a belief system that they cannot find humour in it's failings, it is a huge fault.  It is a sign that the belief system, in their own mind, is perfect and nothing, I mean nothing is absolutely perfect.  To laugh at it's imperfections is to be human.

 

agree on you on this.i also did not wanted to comment religion on TT but exactly, the comments here are begging for it. 

and thinking about it? why not discuss religion? 

 

i had my very bad experiences with islam religion here on 'Germany. i once made some fun of allah, it was a small joke.

and some guys in a party took it the wrong way.  they started screaming and saying i am such a shit person for blaspheming his God. "how dare you say that"!etc etc. i never saw so much anger on my life! 

 

have you notice that everybody is afraid to say any Muslim jokes in Germany? 

 

 

Btw, did you hear about that Muslim party? 

i heard it was a blast :D    

 

(oh man i did it again) 

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Chemnitz was an example of an angry mob.

 

If the angry mob was going after foreign looking people, i doubt the participants surveyed their targets to get a clear ideas about their precise ancestry and religious beliefs.   

 

Putting religion on trial for the zillionth time on TT may or may not be fascinating  :rolleyes:  but it probably had no impact on the mob's target selection process.

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23 minutes ago, esqualidus said:

 

agree on you on this.i also did not wanted to comment religion on TT but exactly, the comments here are begging for it. 

and thinking about it? why not discuss religion? 


i had my very bad experiences with islam religion here on 'Germany. i once made some fun of allah, it was a small joke and some guys in a party took it the wrong way.

  they started screaming and saying i am such a shit person for blaspheming his God. "how dare you say that"!etc etc. i never saw so much anger on my life! 

 

have you notice that everybody is afraid to say any Muslim jokes in Germany? 

 

Btw, did you hear about that Muslim party? 

i heard it was a blast :D    

 

(oh man i did it again) 

 

Why not discuss religion?  Religion and politics are very personal with the individual.  Between two people, their religious beliefs might be the same, but their political leanings are far apart.  It could cause friction.  I learned at a very early age to not discuss either topic at a party or social gathering.  Also, tread cautiously amongst friends.  Both are belief systems and do alienate people.  Sadly.  Some can respect others for having different beliefs, others not.

 

Quote

 

i once made some fun of allah, it was a small joke. and some guys in a party took it the wrong way.

 

 

Situational awareness.  It's long been known that jokes aimed at Islam will not go over well.  Unless you want to ruin a party by engaging in a religious argument and end up on a 'No-Friend' list, don't go there.
 

Quote

have you notice that everybody is afraid to say any Muslim jokes in Germany? 

 

Not just Germany.  This is everywhere.  Muslims world wide take offence.  While I've yet to come across anything about this in the Koran - and I've read it twice - it seems to be a common practice.

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Well, it's barely midday but I've already been in two places in the news today because of shootings in the last few hours.    

 

The first was another man, and another foreign one.   Reports say a US male killed a woman, his partner (although that might perhaps be treated with caution in respect of dual nationality at least).   So clearly the OP cannot rely on US citizens to be safe.  On top of those two parents who killed their children I mentioned earlier,  it seems "the worse thing ever" is quite common.   Difficult to avoid, especially if choosing a family type set up.  

 

The other seems to be "gangland" related, according to reports, and, again, all men.

 

I am not sure being in a high foreigner population (as those two locales both are) innoculates other foreigners against negativity.   Quite a few members of such  communities are often marginalised, alienated, stressed etc. 

 

The perpetrators of these two events and the events in Chemnitz have one thing in common, but it's not their nationality or religion.   Funny, that.    Some people need to review the reality of who exactly would be harming them,  and their families.   It's not who they like to comfort themselves it is.

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I had a question that is answered in the earlier replies and I am satisfied with the feedback. The later ones are based on the religious debate which I request not to continue. If the Admin wants to close this post because the replies can hurt someone's feelings, so you are more than welcome (as it turns out, I can not delete the post).

 

Thank You all for the time you took to reply on my post.

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https://www.welt.de/img/debatte/kommentare/mobile137513898/4352504477-ci102l-w1024/MUST-CREDIT-Greser-Lenz-FAZGott.jpg

 

Fortunately not:
https://media0.faz.net/ppmedia/aktuell/1130977506/1.4456798/width610x580/karikatur-greser-und-lenz.jpg
https://www.kontextwochenzeitung.de/uploads/tx_news/Schaubuehne_20150731__Genderdebatte_beim_IS.jpg

 

(Sorry, I'm to lazy, ehm, busy, to translate them right now.)

 

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1 hour ago, Imam Bux said:

I had a question that is answered in the earlier replies and I am satisfied with the feedback. The later ones are based on the religious debate which I request not to continue. 

 

... (deleted for brevity )

 

Thank You all for the time you took to reply on my post.

 

Well said ... I wish you all the best wherever your journeys take you and wherever you feel you can make a safe and productive life for yourself.

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