What's left for me in Germany after Chemnitz incident?

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28 minutes ago, gdc said:

 

Why couldn't I mock Islam, the prophet that supposedly rode a Pegasus or Allah?!

 

I'm not a Muslim nor I live in a Muslim theocracy...

 

A few Mexican females have been assaulted in Germany because they were not wearing a burka and were confused as 'Muslims', thanks to having a certain melanin concentration in their skin. Is that respectful to you? It seems that you do not speak for all the Muslims in the world and your view of what Islam is or should be is not shared by a lot of Muslims living in this country.

I'm all for mockery, i'm suspicious of people who only do it to one religion (not saying you, just a general comment) and I'm quite amazed when people from Judaism, Christianity and Islam poke fun at the religious beliefs of the others. It's like being from a family out in the middle of nowhere who have just been inbreeding for generations, but one pokes fun at another for being inbred. 

However I'd say don't be rude. If I am at a bbq with a religious person I don't start poking fun at their beliefs. If they start a conversation about them, I still wouldn't. If they start criticizing me, then it's time for someone to hold my jacket. Some people would say 'hold my beer' but i'm not going to out my beer down just to mock someone, I think it's against my religion or something and I'm not allowed to put food down in case I forget to eat it. Unless the get all hissy about it I don't need my hands anyway.

 

A lot of religious problems are caused by people who cannot follow their own religion, either because they don't actually know much about it, take it far too seriously or just pick and choose which parts they want. It's become more like a buffet than menu situation, I'm guessing that isn't how the founders meant it to be. I'd be surprised if they could follow their own rules as time went on. Things and develop, I can't see any group of people sticking to the 'do not kill' when there re other people trying to break in a kill them.

Sometimes it looks like god is more that funny older uncle that tells you to do stuff just to see if you will. Definitely a sense of humour there though.

 

It's like driving a car, if you don't know the rules, follow the rules to too strictly (there is a joke about 3 guys in a hospital that covers this)  or you just pick the rules you want, the whole thing doesn't work.

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On 9/5/2018, 1:49:36, dampstew said:

Jesus christ, I can't believe my eyes.

 

Which part of Art. 4 GG do these people not understand?

 

Which part of the constitution of Europe do these people not understand?

 

Why did these people come to Europe/Germany if *their* belief is directly incompatible with the European/German constitution? If you believe people should be discriminated for their religion or national origin, why not go to a country where this is allowed? Why did *you* come to Europe/Germany?

 

We came to a country where freedom of thought, religion and speech are respected; where equality between sexes and before the law, irrespective of your sexual preferences, is uphold; where the State of Law is maintained and protected, and every citizen or legal resident of that jurisdiction is a right holder, whatever the views of their peers or parents is; where separation of church and State is absolute.

 

It's not complicated at all: your freedom of religion does not supersede or have prevalence over the individual rights of your keen or neighbours... It's irrelevant if your religion allows you to think or enforce that your young daughter should get married at 10 years old or have multiple co-wives with the husband of your choice, the German State has the obligation to uphold the rights of your little girl; and that's why some of the fundamental doctrines of Islam, too many really, are opposed to a liberal democracy...

 

It's just unbelievable how people coming from hellholes, third world countries or 'developing economies, like mine, cannot just simply bless the opportunity to live in a country where there's actually a State of Law.  

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46 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

I'm all for mockery, i'm suspicious of people who only do it to one religion (not saying you, just a general comment) and I'm quite amazed when people from Judaism, Christianity and Islam poke fun at the religious beliefs of the others. It's like being from a family out in the middle of nowhere who have just been inbreeding for generations, but one pokes fun at another for being inbred. 

However I'd say don't be rude. If I am at a bbq with a religious person I don't start poking fun at their beliefs. If they start a conversation about them, I still wouldn't. If they start criticizing me, then it's time for someone to hold my jacket. Some people would say 'hold my beer' but i'm not going to out my beer down just to mock someone, I think it's against my religion or something and I'm not allowed to put food down in case I forget to eat it. Unless the get all hissy about it I don't need my hands anyway.

 

 

 

 

I don't know where do you come from, but pretty much in the entire democratic or pseudo democratic world, christianity and judaism is teared apart everywhere and in all the mediums available: art, philosophy, politics, religion institutions, academy, etc. It's only one religion that enjoys a free pass within these countries due to a pretty real threat: acts of extreme violence in response.

 

Really? Are you really that delicate? An immediate escalation to violence if someone mucks your beliefs? Are those beliefs so fragile? Under that scenario I would only choose one path: make better decisions on whom I think should be worthy of my relationship, and if them are not culpable of anything in an altercation like that, I would just leave and asked them not to invite me at the events they consider to invite their nasty 'friend'.

 

 

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A lot of religious problems are caused by people who cannot follow their own religion, either because they don't actually know much about it, take it far too seriously or just pick and choose which parts they want. It's become more like a buffet than menu situation, I'm guessing that isn't how the founders meant it to be. I'd be surprised if they could follow their own rules as time went on. Things and develop, I can't see any group of people sticking to the 'do not kill' when there re other people trying to break in a kill them.

Sometimes it looks like god is more that funny older uncle that tells you to do stuff just to see if you will. Definitely a sense of humour there though.

 

The problem with Islam is that there's no central authority that can dictate how to interpret the 'sacred word of Allah', a 'perfect' and 'immutable' text that should not be tangle with. The same text was present in Iran before and after the islamic revolution, in the former times, life was way better for women, in the latter times is far, far worse. The same case repeat itself throughout the Middle East. They have gone backwards in time faster than anyone could thought was possible.

 

Liberal Muslims interpret some of the nastiest doctrines of Islam in some ways, the cavemen from the 'Islamic State' interpret them literally... Who's right? No one knows and if you do an effort to interpret them in a 'modern', 'liberal' view of the world, your life is at risk.

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35 minutes ago, gdc said:

The problem with Islam is that there's no central authority that can dictate how to interpret the 'sacred word of Allah', a 'perfect' and 'immutable' text that should not be tangle with.

 

You could say the same for the many different Christian and Jewish sects.

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1 minute ago, fraufruit said:

 

You could say the same for the many different Christian and Jewish sects.

 

Indeed...

 

But I haven't seen an orthodox Jew decapitate an orthodox Lutheran in New York City because the latter one offered him a pastrami sandwich that wasn't kosher.

 

They all have ultra orthodox/modern/liberal views of their religion, but there's not a movement within them to assassinate another jew or lutheran if someone disagrees with their liberal interpretation of the 'word' of God. There's certainly a foggy ambient within Israel and some monarchies between the separation of church and State, you have to accept that, but they're not theocracies. And certainly the orthodox Jews living in other countries, including Latin America, does not seek to impose their doctrines on the rest of society or overthrow the constitutions of the republics they live in...

 

 

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On 9/3/2018, 9:38:10, Imam Bux said:

2) I think it is same for the men but some does it whenever they find the right person, irrespective of the religion. Why marriage means leaving a religion (does not make sense)!

 

 

Ok necroposting but I can'T resist. For your info, if a non muslim want to marry a muslim woman, he has to leave his religion and convert to muslim religion. And this is not about traditions...it is something requested from the country of origin of the woman in order, in the best case, to make the marriage valid there also and in the worst case to avoid problems with local "justice". This is because great part of muslim countries were not able to separate the f***ing religion rules from the men rules.  

So yes. For muslim religion marriage, also from legal point of view, in some(?) cases contemplate forcing to leave/change religion.

 

And on top of that, leaving muslim religion is something that is prosecuted with death penalty. This, again, because great (if not all) part of countries where the muslim religion is the main religion were not able to separate religion from state.

 

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7 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Plenty of "Christians" murdering Jews, Muslims and even Asians in the U.S. very often.

 

Please show us priests demanding from the pulpit the blood of Jews, Muslims and 'even Asians' (whatever that means)? Please show us orthodox Jews, acting upon the word of God, decapitating doctors because they vaccinated a Jew child? Please show us an orthodox Mexican catholic, acting upon the word of God, decapitating a journalist that supports abortion and equal legal rights for homosexuals?

 

No one questions the existence of feral humans in every society, doctrine, religion or culture, present or past. We produce them all over the world and under every scheme possible, that's unquestionable human nature. The issue at hand is where and under which circumstances we have an overrepresentation of these individuals in the XXI century...

 

Petty or violent crime is present in every society, the scale and rawness of that crime and unsocial behaviors varies accordingly to the impact of the lack or partial presence of the State of Law within these social groups/countries. What's not universal is the presence of doctrinal views, supported, promoted and enacted by the authority figures and followers of these doctrines, that justify heinous acts upon 'infidels', apostates, women, homosexuals, 'blasphemers' or pretty much everyone that does not kneel to the totalitarian 'norms'. 

 

Were these views almost universal? Yes, but we have thankfully evolved out of the Middle Ages...

 

Does feral humans exist in modern and liberal democracies? Yes, fortunately/unfortunately we still cannot program humans like they were software, and human nature will always surface again and again, even in the most 'advanced' and open societies...

 

 

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1 minute ago, gdc said:

Please show us priests demanding from the pulpit the blood of Jews, Muslims and 'even Asians'

 

Now you're talking about Catholics. Plenty of evangelical churches preaching hatred toward Jews, Muslims and others including people of color.

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28 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

Now you're talking about Catholics. Plenty of evangelical churches preaching hatred toward Jews, Muslims and others including people of color.

The Catholic church has been having other issues with child abuse.

I'm sure there have been some problems in Europe with religion over the last century (even longer) that resulted in lots of people dying. I'm even sure it's documented. I'm not sure Muslims were that involved in the actually doing of what was going on. 

 

  

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37 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

Now you're talking about Catholics. Plenty of evangelical churches preaching hatred toward Jews, Muslims and others including people of color.

 

I talked about christians in general, that includes Lutherans and Catholics... The point still permeate: Violent doctrines, supported, promoted, uphold, enacted by authority figures/religious leaders and its followers is not, thankfully, universal.

 

Thankfully in the bast majority of the world, we've evolved out of the Middle Ages, unfortunately humans cannot just stop playing with its favorite toy: religion.

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9 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

The Catholic church has been having other issues with child abuse.

I'm sure there have been some problems in Europe with religion over the last century (even longer) that resulted in lots of people dying. I'm even sure it's documented. I'm not sure Muslims were that involved in the actually doing of what was going on. 

 

  

 

Could you please show us where in the New Testament child abuse is permitted?!

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1 minute ago, gdc said:

 

Could you please show us where in the New Testament child abuse is permitted?!

Children were abused by Catholic priests and the answer is not 'well the bible doesn't tell them to do that'. Priests carried out those abuses, the church is responsible for them and responsible for not taking stronger action.

I really hope you are not trying to say Christians are in any way better than Muslims on things like this.

 

Although, the issue of central authority comes up here. The pope is god's representative on earth (for Catholics). What he says is god's word, what he allows God allows. 

All that child abuse, the pope didn't stop it (as in the pope at the time it was happening, each one of them).

The code of canon law only *increased' the age at which girls could marry to 14 1917, the code of canon law of 1983 didn't change that.

I found some info saying they are planning to raise that to 16 for girls, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

At what age is not classed as child abuse and only sexual abuse/rape?

Is what the pope says more important than the bible, or does the bible take the lead? 

 

Central authority, no central authority, doesn't seem to make much difference when it comes to abusing kids and killing people. 

 

17 minutes ago, gdc said:

Thankfully in the bast majority of the world, we've evolved out of the Middle Ages, unfortunately humans cannot just stop playing with its favorite toy: religion.

I wouldn't count belief in an old book and a being that created the universe in 6 days as having *evolved* out of the middle ages.

This is a book that tells us that one man built a boat big enough to hold two or every animal in he world, out of wood. A boat that was organised to separate the animals in a way they didn't kill each other.

It also stored food for all those animals for a whole 40 days and was all run by one small family. I would really like the bible to have commented on and detailed the logistics they used.   

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5 hours ago, gdc said:

 

Why couldn't I mock Islam, the prophet that supposedly rode a Pegasus or Allah?!

 

I'm not a Muslim nor I live in a Muslim theocracy...

 

A few Mexican females have been assaulted in Germany because they were not wearing a burka and were confused as 'Muslims', thanks to having a certain melanin concentration in their skin. Is that respectful to you? It seems that you do not speak for all the Muslims in the world and your view of what Islam is or should be is not shared by a lot of Muslims living in this country.

 

And why, should I speak for all Muslims when not all of them are making blunders? If some so-called terrorists (using the name of Islam) harassing or attacking some Mexicans, I do not understand why should I take responsibility for them? 

  • That's also the problem, people blame the religion or the whole community just because there are terrorism happening. What about the mosque shooting incident in Christchurch when so many Muslims died? Do I say, oh one Christian did it so it is the fault of all the Christians? No, I don't.
  • Also, there are muslims who do not follow Islam, there are liberal Muslims also there are real Muslims, who do follow the religion properly. But, I 'don't' say we as muslims are perfect, rather I say, it is God who is perfect who created us. My point being, when some of the Muslims are at wrong, the blame goes to the humans, not to God, or to the religion. It's us humans who are to blame. So that's why nope, I would 'not speak for all the Muslims in the world'. Because not all of them are doing it right. I think there is a huge difference between the religion itself and the followers. Cause, you would find many people who are not adhering to it. But also, there are real Muslims who are doing it right. The terrorists, or the attacks that you see, I would say, before even relating them to religion, they do not deserve to be called human. They lack even human empathy, otherwise they would not hurt or kill people. 
  • Same goes for all other incidents like in Christchurch or in London or in Guantanamo Prison. :)

And if mocking Islam gives you (or whoever) happiness, do it, by all means! We can also see, where it ends. I am amused by the all talks. Carry on! And have your peace of mind. :)

 

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Yawn, Islam hate is so boring and frankly insulting to one's intelligence.  Ask yourself who stands to profit from keeping focus on how bad the Muslims are and from dehumanizing the people that live in predominantly Muslim regions.  Consider who stands to gain from those regions being destabilized, remember who has been working since the 60s to keep them up to their eyeballs in unstable/puppet governments.  There are exponentially more violent crimes committed on so many more bases (racism, misogyny, homophobia, anti-Semitism, nationalistic terrorism, etc) that don't even make the news but outnumber "Islamist violence" on Westerners by a bazillion to one.  You are a jillion times more likely to be assaulted or murdered on any other basis than radical Islam.  Like literally think for one half of a fucking second.  You're being fed a line to keep you hating Muslims and it's not for your own personal benefit whatsoever.

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1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

Children were abused by Catholic priests and the answer is not 'well the bible doesn't tell them to do that'. Priests carried out those abuses, the church is responsible for them and responsible for not taking stronger action.

I really hope you are not trying to say Christians are in any way better than Muslims on things like this.

 

Although, the issue of central authority comes up here. The pope is god's representative on earth (for Catholics). What he says is god's word, what he allows God allows. 

All that child abuse, the pope didn't stop it (as in the pope at the time it was happening, each one of them).

The code of canon law only *increased' the age at which girls could marry to 14 1917, the code of canon law of 1983 didn't change that.

I found some info saying they are planning to raise that to 16 for girls, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

At what age is not classed as child abuse and only sexual abuse/rape?

Is what the pope says more important than the bible, or does the bible take the lead? 

 

Central authority, no central authority, doesn't seem to make much difference when it comes to abusing kids and killing people. 

 

I wouldn't count belief in an old book and a being that created the universe in 6 days as having *evolved* out of the middle ages.

This is a book that tells us that one man built a boat big enough to hold two or every animal in he world, out of wood. A boat that was organised to separate the animals in a way they didn't kill each other.

It also stored food for all those animals for a whole 40 days and was all run by one small family. I would really like the bible to have commented on and detailed the logistics they used.   

 

Have I excused the behavior of the priests?!

 

It's irrelevant if the church did or did not do anything to stop the behavior, that's not the point. I've always said: Feral and human trash is present in every culture and society, but those priests and the catholic church act AGAINST the teachings and doctrines they say follow and value.

 

You appear to ignore what I wrote or willingly misrepresent what I say, which clearly shows that you're not willing to have an honest discussion.

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1 hour ago, latahiti said:

 

And why, should I speak for all Muslims when not all of them are making blunders? If some so-called terrorists (using the name of Islam) harassing or attacking some Mexicans, I do not understand why should I take responsibility for them? 

  • That's also the problem, people blame the religion or the whole community just because there are terrorism happening. What about the mosque shooting incident in Christchurch when so many Muslims died? Do I say, oh one Christian did it so it is the fault of all the Christians? No, I don't.
  • Also, there are muslims who do not follow Islam, there are liberal Muslims also there are real Muslims, who do follow the religion properly. But, I 'don't' say we as muslims are perfect, rather I say, it is God who is perfect who created us. My point being, when some of the Muslims are at wrong, the blame goes to the humans, not to God, or to the religion. It's us humans who are to blame. So that's why nope, I would 'not speak for all the Muslims in the world'. Because not all of them are doing it right. I think there is a huge difference between the religion itself and the followers. Cause, you would find many people who are not adhering to it. But also, there are real Muslims who are doing it right. The terrorists, or the attacks that you see, I would say, before even relating them to religion, they do not deserve to be called human. They lack even human empathy, otherwise they would not hurt or kill people. 
  • Same goes for all other incidents like in Christchurch or in London or in Guantanamo Prison. :)

And if mocking Islam gives you (or whoever) happiness, do it, by all means! We can also see, where it ends. I am amused by the all talks. Carry on! And have your peace of mind. :)

 

 

On 6/3/2021, 10:14:02, latahiti said:

 

It just says how you know nothing about the culture of Muslims. Please do not say stuff, that you have no information about. At least we or (some of us muslim) speaks in the first place with some basic infos on christians/buddhists/ hindus beforehand. At least, I do not want to disrespect a religion when I'm talking to someone nonmuslim. 

There is not any issue if a Muslim woman wants to leave Islam or marry a nonmuslim. 

Why you should make fun of Mohammad or Allah? Why making fun is the first thing coming to mind? 

Sounds like all you can think of is how to stir the water, in a bad way lol. 

 

You were clearly speaking for Muslims when someone questioned some facts about concerning behaviors within the Muslim community, as the post that I quote clearly shows. Now you do not want to talk on behalf of all Muslims? Great, you're evolving...

 

Could you please point out where I blamed all Muslims for the actions of fundamentalist Muslim lunatics? It's crystal clear that Islam has certain dogmas that promote violent actions, including the capital punishment, which 'if the right conditions are met' could be applied to apostates, adulterers or homosexuals. Those dogmas were supposedly written by Allah...

 

Yes, we agree... heinous acts should be condemn by everyone, including the ones committed by people supposedly without any agency at all and hence less guilty, or the ones committed by the powerful.

 

The ones suffering Islam the most are definitely Muslims, so all my thoughts and prayers are with them...

 

What was that?

 

;)

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so, is this why you joined Toytown?  To gear up for a bunch of rabid Muslim bashing?  In that case, I'd be just as happy to show you the door.

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Listening to people arguing about religion is like listening to people argue over star trek/star wars being better. 

 

Ok, that's not so fair. 

No, it's is. 

Tolkien wrote a better story. 

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3 hours ago, cb6dba said:

The Catholic church has been having other issues with child abuse.  

Well, at least they don't marry them and make it official :/

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