Other tenant terrorising my tenant

33 posts in this topic

Thanks for all the helpful replies and even the less helpful ones. Revenge is sweet, and superglueing her locks, or burning her apartment down (and all the apartments above hers) with her in it might be satisfying, but is not a solution.

 

The consensus seems to be I should demand that the Hausverwalting take care of her breaking hygiene and fire safety regulations by leaving garbage in the hall. I don't have a copy of the Hausordnung. Should I ask them for a copy before sending them said demands? 

 

I appreciate nobody has told me to lawyer up yet. Should I write the letter myself or have a lawyer write it? Registered letter?

 

The only thing realistically to come from involving the police is a record of her misdeeds, and a visit from constable plod which might scare the shit of her, but bear in mind the insane are often not easily scared.

 

I don't live in Nürnberg, but will be there on Monday 3rd Sep. Should I phone them? Visit them myself. I suppose I could ask my tenant to go to them, but nobody likes going to the police.

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30 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

I don't have a copy of the Hausordnung. Should I ask them for a copy before sending them said demands? 

 

 

Yes, and you should also make sure all of your tenants have a copy. It is usually given with/in the rental contract. As owner, you should have received one when you purchased the properties.

 

Your tenant should really join the Mietverein. Almost free legal advice for her/him and yourself through their lawyers if someone wants to make a case against you.

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3 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

The only thing realistically to come from involving the police is a record of her misdeeds, and a visit from constable plod which might scare the shit of her, but bear in mind the insane are often not easily scared.

 

I don't live in Nürnberg, but will be there on Monday 3rd Sep. Should I phone them? Visit them myself. I suppose I could ask my tenant to go to them, but nobody likes going to the police.

 

You can file online, see http://www.online-strafanzeige.de/index.php?kat=bayern-online-strafanzeige  However, they will likely call you and your tenant to an interview so you should definitely warn your tenant beforehand.  If you do it in person, you should take your tenant with you during office hours and you might get it over and done with in one go.  Likely they will talk to her and she will deny any wrong doing and that will be it.

 

Have you talked to Ordnungsamt yet about rules for keeping garbage in communal spaces if they have any?  That could be helpful if the HV doesn't have any.  

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With the case of the parking problem I mentioned, I went to the police on an informal basis in the first instance.  There's more options than an "all or nothing":  file a report or bust.   Even simply saying "I got some preliminary guidance from the police" has weight, and shows we mean business, while I also made it clear I'd done it neutrally (no address or name mentioned).    I also did that at a city police office, not the big boys at the main station.   (And as we discussed here, what they told me was comprehensive and accurate so the HV and others will be able to see I am firmly on track, not clutching at straws or randomly threatening).

 

The house rules may be ancient.   My copy will date back to when the place was built, part of my contractuals  (It can also seem to go under other guises, forget name in my most recent contracts).  

 

In my experience, dealing with a HV is very informal.   It's just an email.  I call when needed also to show it's important enough to talk about.  It is important to remember when we choose to be absent that they do not take on our personal estate management, but they are still our "go to" for the overall building management.   As others of us have noted on threads on raising issues, a lot of us are doing it quite often :ph34r:.   It is in no way an unusual or formal.   If someone was leaving rubbish in my corridor and had not stopped, for sure I'd have gone to HV next.  And absolutely for the glue thing.  That car matter is by no means the only thing I have had correspondence with my HVs about in recent weeks and I don't mean complaints - minor repairs, requests for supplier details for renovations, and such as well.  If you do not know at least one of them by name, it'd be a good idea to get the that position, probably.

 

The thing about "mental health issues" is that a large part of the population has one of them.   It's hardly unusual and so a bit meaningless.   If we attribute something to that, we may as well attribute things to people being shortsighted or similar.  (Easy for me to wonder if the "forgetfulness" and untruths regarding my parking place may be at least in part associated with typical conditions of ageing).

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On 24.8.2018, 08:39:39, MadAxeMurderer said:

 

I contacted the house administration and asked for the contact details of her landlord, which they said the cannot give me because of data security. So I replied the tenant was always terrorising my tenants, and had now gone over the top. Where do we go from here? They replied they would ask the owner for permission to give me his details.

 

 

That's bullshit. You have the right to know your co-owners and that includes an address. If forcing your administration to comply takes to long, go to the Grundbuchamt, take a look at the Teilungserklärung of the property to find number of the apartment. With that information they then can give you the owners details.

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They also have not answered my Email asking for the Hausordnung. I shall phone them today and ask why not. And mention I shall also be involving the police, and addressing all complaints to them as custodians of the building.

 

But I am interested in the suggestion they lied in writing to me. Are you sure? German data protection is pretty strong.

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Google einsicht in eigentümerliste weg. There should be plenty of results. You are part of a co-ownership. There is no right to anonymity in such a community.

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3 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

They also have not answered my Email asking for the Hausordnung. I shall phone them today and ask why not. And mention I shall also be involving the police, and addressing all complaints to them as custodians of the building.

 

I would just discuss the matter, not demand why they'd not answered an email in a day, that's not so unusual, but it is perfectly appropriate to follow up with a call.     I deal with more than one HV - some prefer a practically instant email response that I arrives before I am out of bed and even run off likes of WhatsApp, others tend to avoid using it.  It depends.  The main thing is - it's on the record.

 

While they are the managing agent, we cannot simply just transfer the matter to them.  As I said above, that's not how it works.   They do not take on the work of the owner or renter.  We have to work with them to get a solution.  Any complaint to the police will only ever be in the name of the owner / renter (according to who made it).   That will not be for the HV to deal with or take responsibility for, usually.  

 

In your situ, I would now have that conversation by phone.  I'd follow it up with another email to confirm what was said.   Then I'd go to the police, first on an informal guidance basis, as I said.

 

Perhaps the house rules are in the building somewhere, usually some noticeboard?  Or a neighbour may have them.   Buildings usually have a small owner representitive group (Beirat or something).  That's another route to use.  In my home building, I know for sure they moan (at length) about even the tiniest food smell :lol:.

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Its true that Data Protection excuse is not correct. Ask for the exact paragraph which precludes it. there isnt one.

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I shall visit the  Haus & Grund Verein (Owners' Association) on Tuesday morning. I shall be very interested in confirmaton that the HV lied to me in writing.

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On Donnerstag, 30. August 2018, MadAxeMurderer said:

I shall visit the  Haus & Grund Verein (Owners' Association) on Tuesday morning. I shall be very interested in confirmaton that the HV lied to me in writing.

 

Just curious to know, @MadAxeMurderer, what the results of your enquiries were?

 

TIA

2B

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