incident in train ... should have called the police ?

79 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, cacilia_1 said:

Germans tend to be cowardly about helping other people. (...)  But then I was raised in a culture where (Canada) where people help each other out.

 

Actually you were raised in a culture (Canada) where thousands socially, economically, and politically marginalized native women, girls and LGBTs were murdered or disappeared without any trace while that same society ignored that horror for decades. 

 

It’s really bizarre to see migrants complaining about other migrants, Germany and the Germans while turning a blind eye on their own societies or outright denying the horrendous abuse. 

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2 hours ago, cacilia_1 said:

Germans tend to be cowardly about helping other people. Their natural tendency is to take care of themselves first.  As a woman, if someone is touching my hair, they are to close and they are going to far.  These are young girls raised in a culture of going along to get along and they know no one in the train is going to help them.  It doesn't mean they were not concerned or scared. When I see such things, I let the men/boys involved know that I am watching them and maybe recording them.  I would rather be fined than let someone get potentially hurt.  But then I was raised in a culture where (Canada) where people help each other out.

 

That is a sweeping statement and is simply not true.

 

People in general will not get involved in a situation which they view could pose a danger to them or their safety. You see many examples of this in the news. It is not down to nationality, it is human behaviour in general. The "herd" mentality and preservation of the self.

 

Apathy kills. Apathy is universal (see link below)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

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Has anyone considered the possibility that all of the other passengers were probably staring at their smart phones and didn't even realize that anything was going on? That is my experience in every mode of public transportation.

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Fruity, while it's true that people do tend to have their noses buried in smartphones, I have a hard time believing no one would notice or hear the exchange. In the incident I witnessed mentioned earlier in this thread, there were other men who were closer to the two people involved than me, but if that man had started to assault her, I would have grabbed him. It's also a tricker Situation when there are multiple men involved, in which case multiple People Need to step Forward if the Situation escalates.

 

 

It's not realistic to demand that people who come from elsewhere refrain from criticizing others who come from elsewhere, nor does it do any harm when they do criticize. It's possible that the criticism is inaccurate or unfair, but there shouldn't be demands for self-censorship. It's also pretty tiresome that anytime a non-German posts something a particular poster doesn't like that the offended poster brings up something unrelated that occurred in the non-German's country to imply that the non-German can't criticize. Now that is some thin skin.

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6 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

"Government data shows reported cases of crime against women rose by 83 percent between 2007 and 2016, when there were four cases of rape reported every hour."

 

So you think  Manjunath Gangadhara, an official at the Karnataka state government, is lying, government data is wrong – and your and jubinjohns feeeeelings are objetive, right?

 

Calm down...i have not denied the problem exists...but declaring it to be the most dangerous place is not right. Increase in reported cases of rape means more girls get have the courage to go and report the crime to police..where before it was hushed under the carpet in name of shame and honor of the family. Lots of reforms such as Police and Judicial ones need to be done...most importantly its about changing the mindset...and it is changing. Some people will only focus at the negative side...thats their approach and i have nothing to say.

 

6 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

And with all that objective feeeeelings you dream of "manhandling street romeos" in Germany ... 

Yes it was an objective feeling based on the situation described where nobody intervened and Police was not called for...so if someone interfered and confronted these guys...it would have sent them a  message..they might think twice before harrassing any other girls.

 

Whats your objective feeling about these thugs...whole time you did not give your opinion?

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6 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

“India has shown utter disregard and disrespect for women ... rape, marital rapes, sexual assault and harassment, female infanticide has gone unabated,” said Manjunath Gangadhara, an official at the Karnataka state government. 

“The (world’s) fastest growing economy and leader in space and technology is shamed for violence committed against women.” 

 

"Government data shows reported cases of crime against women rose by 83 percent between 2007 and 2016, when there were four cases of rape reported every hour."

 

So you think  Manjunath Gangadhara, an official at the Karnataka state government, is lying, government data is wrong – and your and jubinjohns feeeeelings are objetive, right?

 

And with all that objective feeeeelings you dream of "manhandling street romeos" in Germany ... 

I am not here to state that all villages of India treats its women in the best possible way .  But it is no way right to call the whole country as hell for women.  

 

I have no idea how a survey of 600 voters to represent 193 countries is statistically relevant.

 

My feelings or the things I saw and experience for 25 years living there is void compared to the above survey, right?

@Anna66

There are 1084 women for 1000 men in the state i am from as per the 2015 census.  Generalization can hide a lot of good things. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, MechEng said:

it was an objective feeling

 

Subjective. Feelings are, by definition, subjective. 

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4 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

Subjective. Feelings are, by definition, subjective. 

potato Patata...play with words...objective analysis of the situation okay?

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

It’s really bizarre to see migrants complaining about other migrants, Germany and the Germans while turning a blind eye on their own societies or outright denying the horrendous abuse. 

 

Its equally bizarre where some others divert an entire subject and refuse to give opinion on the original story..why is that so? 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MechEng said:

potato Patata...play with words...objective analysis of the situation okay?

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, one's feelings can never be objective. That is inherent to the nature of feelings. 

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41 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Calm down...

 

I suggest you calm down and refrain from stereotyping in the future. It was not me in this thread with the "This is Germany" stereotype, but you, remember? And maybe one day you will even grow a spine and call the police instead of complaining about them (remember: "police is too late and does too litte."?). 

 

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Yes it was an objective feeling

 

This is a contradiction in terms.

 

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based on the situation described where nobody intervened

 

Nobody – including you. 

 

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and Police was not called for.

 

Yes, you didn't call police. Just in case you forgot the number: It's 110. 

 

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Whats your objective feeling about these thugs...whole time you did not give your opinion?

 

See above, feelings are always subjective. I gave my opinion on this so called 'incident' very clear as I gave my opinion on the disgusting sexist comments of TraceKira.

 

I didn't see you criticizing him for it. I only saw you complaining 'bout Germany and dreaming of vigilante justice by "manhandling". 

 

23 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

Its equally bizarre where some others divert an entire subject and refuse to give opinion on the original story..why is that so? 

 

Ask yourself. You diverted the subject by complaining about Germany. 

 

And furthermore you need to work on your reading abilities. Find my opinion on page 1:

 

I bet that 'incident in the train' never happened, it's just another TK thread combining 'slutty German girls' and 'arabic/turkish/farsi foreigners' ... 

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On 7/8/2018, 11:18:44, TraceKira said:

 

I wanted to confront these guys ...

 

Was i correct in how I proceeded ?

 

I don't think anybody here is going to give you the kind of advice your posting history seems like you would like, ie, how you could have aggressively confronted the guys and made yourself feel better about getting some confrontation.

 

(the following may be of more use to others)

Now, if you wanted to *diffuse* a difficult situation, or let the girls subtly know that people would support them if they were uncomfortable, the standard advice is to engage with either the girls or the male guy (you said how old the 'girls' were, but not the guys) in a neutral way.  One way to do that would be to stand next to the man, close enough that he knows you are aware of his actions, but not close enough to antagonize him by entering his personal space, and talk to the girls about something completely mundane and non sexual.  Tell them you aren't familiar with the train line and ask them where the stop you are looking for is, or where you can get a connection, or if there are stores in the next or ultimate station.  If the girls are really uncomfortable with the first man's behavior, they would probably answer with relief, and stay engaged with you as a way to avoid the first man without antagonizing him or insulting him. (oh, and if you think the guy doesn't speak German, and you want to, stay a proper distance away from the girls, don't sit on the seat they already indicated was reserved, use gestures that make it sure you aren't also hitting on the girls, show them your ticket and clearly say the name of the station, or something similar)

 

  Or, you can direct those  questions to the man.  If he answers your questions, just keep engaging him with neutral bland pleasantries.  If he  expresses ignorance, ask him further bland questions, ask him polite questions about himself, about the weather, about the latest football game.  In that way you do two things, he's likely to get the message that his behavior was considered inappropriate, but in a way that doesn't "confront" him and trigger further aggressiveness, and furthermore, you model polite public interaction, and he just might learn something from it.  

 

In the vast majority of cases of public harassment, a simple intervention like that is going to shut it down.  If it doesn't shut it down, then you have ascertained that the man is further down the spectrum into predator, and you can then step it up a notch, but unless you are really itching for a fight, in which case you need someone else on the train to intervene to diffuse *your* situation, keep it in the lines of diffusing a situation, not creating a confrontation.    

 

On 7/8/2018, 4:46:06, SpiderPig said:

But FF was suggesting that people videoed making the subjects the center of attention..

 

I clicked on your link.. but it was in German which is totally unsuitable for a discussion on an English based forum.You seem to like posting these links as if it helps those who dont read German!

 

 OFFS, content like that page, factual, short sentences, very little philosophical musing or colloquialisms, is totally amendable to machine translation, like, "right click" "translate into English", if you've got your browser set up right.

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On 7/8/2018, 4:18:44, TraceKira said:

Hi all

 

I was in train and some incident happened which i think it was harassment. I entered the wagon and i sat near 2

scantly dressed young girls looked to be around 16. In the train it was 3 other mens who speak other language than german ...sounded arabic/turkish/farsi ...

One of them came and sit near the other girls on the other side of their seats and starting to say to them in broken german : you ar beautiful , where are you going ...you have nice hair /nice legs Etc .He was very bold and alpha male behaviour. He was acting as he owned the wagon and the people inside it lol.

The girls were laughing mostly .Then this guy got bolder and came near them and grabbed on of the girls hair and starting stroking it .

Then he did this a few more times and he wanted to sit near them . Afterwards it he was refused a few time by the girls (the sit is taken , we wait for someone else) he touched the other girl hair in a sexual way and then at the next train station he got down .

 

I wanted to confront these guys but i was afrad i would be called a racist or something and also the wagon was full and no one said anything to these guys...Should have i called the police? The only think the other guy did physical was to touch the other girl hair and to be honest she didn't complained... she complained only when he wanted to sit with them

 

Was i correct in how I proceeded ?

 

My spidey sense tells me you made this shit up..  don't believe this story.    But...assuming it is true, no you were not correct in how you proceeded.  Imagine those girls were your daughters.  How would you have proceeded?  Fuck the racist card, you shoulda done what was right, i.e. confront them or come to the aid of those 16 yr old girls, by putting inserting yourself in that situation.

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10 hours ago, jubinjohn said:

I am not here to state that all villages of India treats its women in the best possible way .  But it is no way right to call the whole country as hell for women.  

 

I have no idea how a survey of 600 voters to represent 193 countries is statistically relevant.

 

My feelings or the things I saw and experience for 25 years living there is void compared to the above survey, right?

@Anna66

There are 1084 women for 1000 men in the state i am from as per the 2015 census.  Generalization can hide a lot of good things. 

 

 

 

I instinctively agreed with this based on my own experience with India; that is, rural India.

It's true that my experiences are about 30-40 years out of date and India has changed drastically since then. It has become more modern, more in touch with the Western world. Traditional India was not like this. Traditional India has an inherent reverence for women and it is very sad that this is more and more deteriorating and turning into its opposite. I experienced this when I first ttavelled there, overland, in 1973. I came from the West; I had travelled in South America and overland through Europe and Asia (Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan).

 

As far as my treatment as a young, reasonably attractive, and single woman is concerned, India was the best. Colombia was the worst. In European countries, I felt that men were only interested in me in the sense of "is she going to give out or not". I was not a sexy woman or interested in sex and as such men mostly did not like me as a person.

 

It was the opposite in India. I felt so often respected. At train stations, women were given a queue of ther own to buy tikets so they did not have to jostle with hundreds of men. We had train compartments for ourselves. Living in a village, on my own, I often slept in the garden on the ground in hot weather, in full view of everyone. Any man could have hopped over the fence or walked through the gate and raped me. I was neveronce molseted or spoken to in a disrespectful way.  I used to walk around on my own at night. I have never felt so safe in any other country I've been to, ever.

 

Men would often speak to me on iteresting topics, as equals. In the village, I was invariably addressed as Ma, Mother, and men were so polite and deferential, in a way I have not expereinced anywhere else. Even today, as an older women, when I visit India men treat me with utmost respect and deference -- it's almost embarassing.

 

All in all I would say, that it is only after that initial stay in India -- 18 months -- that I recovered my true sense of worth as a woman. It changed me completely. Only then I was able to become the person I truly am.

 

I am not going to discredit the awful stories that have emerged out of India. They are true, and the cities are terrible, and in the villages too some women have a terrible time. It's all true. But it's one side of India, and it's true to say that in every single way, india is a country of extremes. The worst of everything, but also the best. Let's not listen to only the worst, but recognise the fact that India is abslutely incomprehensible for a Westerner.

 

And has changed enormously, and is changing still.

IMO India needs to return to its lost traditional values. 

 

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5 hours ago, Techsmex said:

 

My spidey sense tells me you made this shit up..  don't believe this story.    But...assuming it is true, no you were not correct in how you proceeded.  Imagine those girls were your daughters.  How would you have proceeded?  Fuck the racist card, you shoulda done what was right, i.e. confront them or come to the aid of those 16 yr old girls, by putting inserting yourself in that situation.

These guys often have knifes and they know how to use them. The number of stabbings in Germany increased a lot in the last years. They plan to add a separate column in the criminal statistics. Obviously that was not necessary in the past.

Why should I risk my life for girls that I don't know? Contrary to texas carrying Sig-Sauer's in the public is not allowed.

If the were my daughters the situation would be different.

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3 hours ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

These guys often have knifes

 

Youp, and TraceKira is one of 'those guys':

 

On 31.12.2015, 12:07:13, TraceKira said:

 

Thanx. I bought it and carry in my jeans pocket. Feels great , easy to deploy with a flick of finger and hard to be taken off your hand.

 

Look here why is the best knife in the world every human beeing should carry

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v89DYP6WXo8

 

Can't wait to read his next 'Will I go to jail'-thread ...

 

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Contrary to texas carrying Sig-Sauer's in the public is not allowed.

 

We're all better off with those TraceKiras not carrying firearms to boost their weak macho egos. 

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17 hours ago, jubinjohn said:

I am not here to state that all villages of India treats its women in the best possible way .  But it is no way right to call the whole country as hell for women.  

 

I have no idea how a survey of 600 voters to represent 193 countries is statistically relevant.

 

My feelings or the things I saw and experience for 25 years living there is void compared to the above survey, right?

@Anna66

There are 1084 women for 1000 men in the state i am from as per the 2015 census.  Generalization can hide a lot of good things. 

 

 

 

Indeed, there are good areas and bad areas in every country this is true. It is blessed to be from one of the better areas of any country.

 

It is also bad to say the whole of India is hell for women, I agree. Some people have wonderful richful lives and India is a very beautiful country.

 

However, sadly because of some areas and in general due to the past (this is the same in China) of people practising sex selective abortions and female infanticide the population is skewed.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/china-india-grapple-with-the-consequences-too-many-men

 

I guess with time as hopefully change happens this will not be the case.

 

 

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On 7/12/2018, 8:45:49, AnswerToLife42 said:

These guys often have knifes and they know how to use them. The number of stabbings in Germany increased a lot in the last years. They plan to add a separate column in the criminal statistics. Obviously that was not necessary in the past.

 

oh yeah, they did increased a lot.(like rape, petty crime, you name it)...but some people in TT will get offended when someone states the TRUTH, that crime has increased in the last (about 4 ) years. 

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