I.T "Career" change

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Hi,

I have lived in Germany for a few years working in restaurants etc. I guess I am about B2 German. I am not getting any younger and I was wanting a Career change to I.T.

 

Restaurant work is crap pay but I still own an apartment in Munich but I want to earn a bit more money and work day shifts with having a family and all.

 

What is an "easier" direction to consider for a Career change? Is it programming or website development or what. What should  I look into for a non fluent German speaker? 

 

Yes I know it's not easy but I am not wanting to earn mega bucks but everyone knows Hospo is crap so any amount in I.T is better.

 

I read the other day that by 2025 40,000 I.T jobs will be vacant in Munich so there must be a job for a low rank gimp to make a living;-)

 

Any advice from the I.T peeps appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Do you know how to program?

How many years are you willing to invest in your training?

 

There is a large demand for programmers, testers, network admins, etc.

One option for you would be to start as a SW tester. It requires much less skills of SW development, but pays less. Still, a good salary. Then you could learn more while working as a tester and then move up.

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I also consider a career change to programming time to time, as i don't see a bright future for my profession in the next 20 years. What i am unsure is, whether it is doable at mid 30s and with a family..

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8 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Do you know how to program?

How many years are you willing to invest in your training?

 

There is a large demand for programmers, testers, network admins, etc.

One option for you would be to start as a SW tester. It requires much less skills of SW development, but pays less. Still, a good salary. Then you could learn more while working as a tester and then move up.

I don't really have many skills in programming. I didn't want to invest too many years in training.

 

I like the sound of your option being a software tester.  Are there plenty of jobs in this area?

 

What qualifications would you start with? I found ISTQB certification online. Not sure if that is where you would start.

 

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If I were you, I would simply practice getting up early... Practice being a lazy fucker and then after that, practice being very grumpy and unfriendly...and practice Tutting very loud..

 

Then you can apply for most Job opportunities in Germany

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16 minutes ago, KiwiGuy said:

I don't really have many skills in programming. I didn't want to invest too many years in training.

 

I like the sound of your option being a software tester.  Are there plenty of jobs in this area?

 

What qualifications would you start with? I found ISTQB certification online. Not sure if that is where you would start.

 

 

If you dont have any experience testing then I doubt there is much point starting ISTQB.  I havent actually done the certification myself but I have helped people study for it.  Frankly with no IT background and no testing knowledge its a massive effort and it is far from certain that it would get you a job (probably into an interview but I doubt it alone would get you further).  It is also somewhat devisive in the industry with a lot of job adverts asking for it but also a large number of people seeing it as worthless or even a negative. 

 

There are at least 2 sides to software testing, you could start by focussing on writing test cases, test plans etc and of course there are billions of books, online courses etc that would support you down that road.  Example: https://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/how-to-write-effective-test-cases-test-cases-procedures-and-definitions/

 

The other side is testing itself, you could download selenium IDE and start working with it, again there are billions of tutorials.  Example (just what I found on google, Im not recomending this one as such): https://www.guru99.com/selenium-tutorial.html

 

I would say however that it isnt easy to find work in testing, I know a couple of people in berlin with IT degrees and around a year of QA experience and they took a couple of months each to find something -- it is likely to be a longer and more difficult process for someone with zero experience and no IT degree.  FWIW my employer has been searching hard for over a year and has only hired a couple of QA people and they have mosstly been very junior. How there can be a mismatch between how hard it is to find people and how hard it is to get hired I cannot explain, but it clearly does exist.

 

I have never used them (either as an employer or as a company) but I know that there are several work from home testing companies that pay per bug found.  That could be a way to get started and see if its something for you (disclaimer, other than knowing that they exist I know nothing about them, whether they pay well, good employers, whatever.  I know nothing.  As an example: https://nest.testbirds.com/#tester  http://testerwork.com/

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Entry positions can be in support. Functional or technical. I started in support and in less than 2 years I moved on to consultancy. What is also in demand is something like SAP Basis. You handle things like rights and roles for end-users in SAP systems, so admin-related.

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IT is all about experience I'm afraid which means breaking in with none is difficult.  Therefore you need to leave a skill that is in demand and prove that you know it, which means qualifications at the beginning to get you into your first role.

 

I don't necessarily agree with @MikeMelga above about testing.  There are different levels of testing with "User Acceptance Testing (UAT)" requiring the least skills, but these people normally come from the business side and know the business very well and this is done by the "customer" receiving the software.  More detailed testing which is done by the software houses inhouse are sometimes very technical.  I know the guys are our place are very highly skilled being able to do programming (scripts, tools), database work, linux/windows admin, and well as knowing something about the business.  And in most cases testers I know started as developers or sometimes support guys.  

Having done testing myself then this is also my experience.

 

I think the easiest way to break-in is either in support or to learn a programming skill.  The first levels will never be highly paid, and support first level can be badly paid with shift work etc.  So I would suggest programming.

 

Then you have a choice of what to learn as a skill.  Will Web development is seen as sexy, the truth is that such "front end" developers actually earn less than "back end" programmers.

 

If you don't know how to program then the biggest challenge is to get into this mind set, to think in this different logical way.  For this then I highly suggest a course which will teach you how to program and the language in which you learn is not as important.  Once you know how to program then it is easy to learn another programming language.  Most developers know several at least on a basic level.  As you will find many have things in common, but the method of how to do something remains the same. 

 

Think of driving, it doesn't matter if you drive a car, bus, motorbike the rules of the road remain the same!

 

Java is often a favourite to learn and the language itself is very powerful, in demand, and well structured that you learn all the right concepts.  Don't confuse Java with JavaScript which despite the name is something totally different!   I think that C# is also a good one to learn, but the demand for this is less.

 

To learn properly then you will need to invest a lot of time and effort, and I would suggest paying for a good course at the beginning and then once you have learnt the fundamentals you can do more things on your own which will not cost money.  Development is also about constant learning, technologies, methodologies are changing and you need to learn and understand them as well even if you don't need to practice them directly you must have an idea of the concepts.

 

Start simple, learn the basic concepts and build up skills and experience.  Then later set your self challenges and make your own projects which will challenge you.

 

I work in IT but not as a developer.  But I often find myself doing programming for fun, because of the challenge it sets me.  I challenge myself to try something or learn something new and spend many 10's or 100's hours on it to learn.  But often end up not using the program long term.  I just like the challenge!

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13 hours ago, KiwiGuy said:

Hi,

I have lived in Germany for a few years working in restaurants etc. I guess I am about B2 German. I am not getting any younger and I was wanting a Career change to I.T.

 

Restaurant work is crap pay but I still own an apartment in Munich but I want to earn a bit more money and work day shifts with having a family and all.

 

What is an "easier" direction to consider for a Career change? Is it programming or website development or what. What should  I look into for a non fluent German speaker? 

 

Yes I know it's not easy but I am not wanting to earn mega bucks but everyone knows Hospo is crap so any amount in I.T is better.

 

I read the other day that by 2025 40,000 I.T jobs will be vacant in Munich so there must be a job for a low rank gimp to make a living;-)

 

Any advice from the I.T peeps appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's your background? Do you have any academics at all, or did you go straight into work?

 

One side of IT that (sadly?) often doesn't need detailed knowledge is management, but here you probably need experience / qualifications / the right connection at the right time?

 

An apparently booming area right now is "data science" which basically means statistics, programming and a sense of how to communicate complex ideas and/or solve problems. Again, a lot of learning is online.

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14 hours ago, KiwiGuy said:

I am not getting any younger and I was wanting a Career change to I.T.

 

1.) Convert the binary value 10001000 to decimal

2.) Convert the hexadecimal value FFFE to decimal

3.) draw a table that represents the AND function

4.) Explain what 9.81 m/s^2 means

5.) A fence is 1000m long, the distance between the posts is 2m, it starts and ends with a post, calculate the amount of posts.

 

Did any of that take more than 5 seconds to answer? 

 

You also might take a look at this: https://www.matse-ausbildung.de/schnuppertest.html

 

That knowledge in that test is expected to start as an apprentice to become a MATSE...

 

What about setting yourself a goal, like "buying a Raspberry Pi and setting up web server"?

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yes I think those are great "test questions"...

 

if we were still living in the 1980's ;)

 

ok maybe if you're targeting a firmware role straight out of uni, you might run into questions like this.

 

I'm sorry but starting off with "I don't really have any programming skills"...what do you actually hope to achieve?  No profi experience is one thing, but no skills is something else entirely.  I think dj has the best advice for your particular situation but take a moment to be honest with yourself:  you say you didn't want to "invest" in training.  If you still have the same attitude this does not bode well at all. 

 

Even if you are willing to invest, some people "get it" and some don't.  I remember trying to teach a couple of (very smart) mechanical engineers about pointers.  Or an electrical engineer about polymorphism.  They NEVER understood it.  Not even enough to limp through.  Complete no-go.  Granted pointers are no longer necessary (though you should have a basic grasp of the concepts) but the fact remains, some people have brains that are better able to work with abstractions than others. and if you really have no talent in this direction you will be facing a difficult transition.

 

as already advised, take a couple of courses and see how you do and how you like it.

 

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52 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

yes I think those are great "test questions"...

 

if we were still living in the 1980's ;)

 

Yes, it is 2018, but these questions are still to be answered by somebody who wants to work as programmer. Especially when the new guys have to fix bugs in existing/old code, so that the seasoned co-workers can focus on the new product.

 

It just isn't enough to know where the top of the keyboard is...

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Programming is different than administration or configuration management, change management, support, security, etc.  and the OP might find his way without ever writing code.    

 

From my point of view, interests are as important as background.    Without some enthusiasm to learn new technology (which is not always interesting or easy), choosing I.T. as a career will cause a lot of frustration.    Setting up a raspberry pi, doing a webpage, a database, a program of some sort might help.   Udemy and Coursera might be good places to try some coursework.  

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47 minutes ago, franklan said:

 

Yes, it is 2018, but these questions are still to be answered by somebody who wants to work as programmer. Especially when the new guys have to fix bugs in existing/old code, so that the seasoned co-workers can focus on the new product.

 

It just isn't enough to know where the top of the keyboard is...

 

yeah, no. These questions are NOT typical of modern programming interview topics.   More often than not, if "the new guy" (or woman) is going to be working on existing code they will actually ask questions relevant to the code base.  For reals.

 

I've only had one interview (in 20 years of dev) where I was asked anything even remotely in the direction of what you propose.  The interviewer was very wet behind the ears, shall we say, and he basically had a list of inane questions like this a mile long.  Some of them were examples of truly "evil code" and I finally flat out asked him if their code base contained implementations that awful.  He had the grace to blush and say "no, of course not".  "So why are you asking so many questions like this?"  blink blink.  This kind of quiz format says NOTHING about your programming ability in real life and my advice is, if someone is asking you questions like this you likely don't want to work there as they have no clue what they are doing.

 

unless you're a firmware geek.

 

 

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17 hours ago, KiwiGuy said:

What is an "easier" direction to consider for a Career change?

 

Drive a cab.

If you think IT is "easy" you'll be disappointed; likewise heart surgeon; test pilot et.al.

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no shit.  after 20 years, I'm sort of toying with the idea of becoming a barista or gardener or something.  it's just not that much fun anymore.

 

it HAS served me well, and I don't regret it, but the same shit, over and over again...companies thinking "oh this is new and sexy"

 

no, actually it's not.  it's the same old same old.  you're just using a different language (which may or may NOT be well suited to the problem space) to do it.

 

I need to start a "how to get out of IT" thread :)

 

 

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1 hour ago, catjones said:

 

Drive a cab.

If you think IT is "easy" you'll be disappointed; likewise heart surgeon; test pilot et.al.

Hence the use of inverted commas around "easy" 

 

This is used as a way of indicating irony, inaccuracy or sceptisim. 

 

Thank you for your valuable contribution. A+ for douchebaggery!

 

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omg relax

 

you come here asking how to get into an IT field with no significant skills and no experience as it has thus far not been worth the "investment" in your opinion.  Read that again.

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15 hours ago, lisa13 said:

This kind of quiz format says NOTHING about your programming ability in real life and my advice is, if someone is asking you questions like this you likely don't want to work there as they have no clue what they are doing.

 

unless you're a firmware geek.

Have you ever seen the code running on a PLC (Which is a part of every production machine nowadays)? Why do you call people working on firmware code geeks?

 

There is a reason why there is a high demand for people working as programmers, and there are a people willing to work as programmers (and believing they are actually a programmer), but in reality it just doesn't converge.

 

 

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