What is Baukindergeld and how does it work?

94 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

"Der Anspruch auf die Zahlung von Zuschussraten endet zu dem Zeitpunkt, an dem die Selbstnutzung des Wohneigentums aufgegeben wurde."

 

The entitlement to payment of subsidy instalments ends at the time when the owner-occupation of the residential property is abandoned.

 

https://www.kfw.de/PDF/Download-Center/Förderprogramme-(Inlandsförderung)/PDF-Dokumente/6000004381_M_424_Baukindergeld.pdf

many thanks!

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On 27.8.2018, 13:57:38, Gambatte said:

A little math exercise, for the fun of it ...

 

Mine wasn't an exercise, but reality. 500€ per month mortgage, interest is lower than you quoted (can't remember what), paying sondertilgung by choice, but don't have to. Lady I know renting similar property for 1,200 per month, actually that was 6 years ago, haven't had that conversation since, might have gone up, won't have gone down. Even if I paid the mortgage literally forever, it would still come out better, but obviously eventually it will be paid off.

 

As I say, it is simply different here. Of course there are many added costs with owning, but the basic fact is that you can own and save the extra you would have spent renting, in the way that in big cities it tends towards the other way round.

 

Rent is way high round here, I find. And yet still 60% are renting. So bizarre. Most say it is because they want flexibility, but they don't move, they live there for 60 years. The one big argument is hassle, I think. If something happens in the house which we rent where my husband works, we call the maintenance company and they come and sort it out. If something happens here, I leave it until it cannot be left any longer and worry about who is best to call and how much it will cost. The peace of mind in the other house is lovely. 

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57 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

 

 

I think that if you "plan" to live there it's not enough, You must really live there. 

 

 

Yes, that is also the bit that jumped out at me.   For the bit about "permission to build", it probably won't be your "only home" until at least some time after.

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6 minutes ago, kiplette said:

 

Rent is way high round here, I find. And yet still 60% are renting. So bizarre. Most say it is because they want flexibility, but they don't move, they live there for 60 years.

 

Anyone who has lived in a rented apartment for 60 years does not pay a high rent. Even those who moved in only 10 years ago do not pay a high rents. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

Anyone who has lived in a rented apartment for 60 years does not pay a high rent. Even those who moved in only 10 years ago do not pay a high rents. 

 

 

 

Yes, that was my thought as well.   That is the de facto quid pro quo of rent controls.   You likely give up "flexibility" these days.   That comes from the free market that you (often quite understandably) opted out of.   

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Many people these days have temporary employment contracts. Especially the young ones. Most people at the place where I work. These people can rent, but cannot get a mortgage.

 

 

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1 hour ago, kiplette said:

 

Mine wasn't an exercise, but reality. 500€ per month mortgage, interest is lower than you quoted (can't remember what), paying sondertilgung by choice, but don't have to. Lady I know renting similar property for 1,200 per month, actually that was 6 years ago, haven't had that conversation since, might have gone up, won't have gone down. 

 

Do the properties with 500/m mortgage and the one with 1200/m rent have similar value?

I would imagine buying a house of 1200/ rent to cost say 300k - 500k, plus overheads, so 350-600k.

 

With 10% deposit, 20yr volltilgung at a very low 1.5%, this turns out 1529-2621/m.

If a person pays only 500/m mortgage for a "similar" property I would imagine either the properties are very different in value, or the mortgage deposit was very large. Fine with both of course. I don't see the 6yr time difference explaining the numbers.

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Indeed.  Young people rarely bought property before the current boom of course, it was something one did in later life, such as on retirement, when that perceived need for "flexibility" ended.  That old order very much reversed.    In my first place, I was one of the youngest by far (in my 30s).  In my latest, I am one of the oldest, far older than most (at 50).

 

Whether many could afford it these days is also arguable.    Looking at the latest local new block to me, the entry level apartments have been listed at 15k more in two months (start 250k).  So even the family-unsuitable one room swallows that 12k.

 

And, not so long ago, there was loads of space here.  We did have our pick.  That "flexibility" of renting was there.  When I arrived, landlords came to us with offers, then I picked.   I think it's left a lot of middle-aged locals potentially marooned.  They had decades with that as their norm - now it's gone in many places.

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1 hour ago, kiplette said:

The one big argument is hassle, I think. If something happens in the house which we rent where my husband works, we call the maintenance company and they come and sort it out. If something happens here, I leave it until it cannot be left any longer and worry about who is best to call and how much it will cost. The peace of mind in the other house is lovely. 

That is really true. But it is the luxury and VERY expensive thing people pay for (in my opinion). I have two neighbors, one is renting and one bought the flat (30 years ago), they paid average monthly almost the same amount of money. At the beginning the one who bought pay higher but it became less and less.  Now, 30 later, one has his own flat and the other still rent. Some argue they don't need to own/have much money...  Unfortunately, the man who rent have a severe disease and in need of much money :(    (I hope it is only a rare case) 

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14 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

 

Do the properties with 500/m mortgage and the one with 1200/m rent have similar value?

 

If you exclude the Tilgung (as the poster did), that is interest on about 400k probably, at least with a decent deposit.  Exactly that range.  I'm paying 1.3%, so only 1300 per 100k.    Super-low interest rates do distort that.    It's not a like for like comparator in some ways, because monst of us do need to find some capital repayment (even though it remains our cash).

 

So do price rises of course.   With price rises of 10% and often (much) more in many places, the capital value comparator is significantly different even a year later.   But, of course, even paid for homes have a cost to us: investment income forgone on capital tied up.   We just aren't paying a bank real cash each month.

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1 minute ago, bizzu said:

 they paid average monthly almost the same amount of money. 

 

They told you? :o

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6 minutes ago, swimmer said:

If you exclude the Tilgung (as the poster did),

 

This I was missing... whom wrote where that Tilgung wasexcluded?

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1 minute ago, Gambatte said:

 

They told you? :o

Yes and No. That's based on my calculation. They did not told me that details but they told me the price for buying and the rent when they both moved in (2-3 years in difference). 

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8 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

 

They told you? :o

 

Interest rates were very high at many points in the last 30 years.  In addition, the standard 10 year fix is practically free money right now - superb value - but was not really for a lot of that period.   Family members that fixed just over 10 years ago (when it was 5% or whatever) have been hammered on payments (although whopping capital gains pay that back)...but then it seemed low compared to the past and it was seen as a good deal :(.

 

My first UK mortgage was 15% interest in 1990 :blink:.  More than rent, for sure.    I think it is normal to talk about this sort of stuff.  

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2 minutes ago, swimmer said:

My first UK mortgage was 15% interest in 1990 :blink:

 

Interest was high but (because of that) house price was low.

 

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8 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

Anyone who has lived in a rented apartment for 60 years does not pay a high rent.

 

True, that. The thing I found weird was the people choosing to start renting as we chose to buy - they honestly thought it was cheaper. Now I know that in vast areas of Germany this is broadly speaking true, but really not round here. 

 

8 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Many people these days have temporary employment contracts. Especially the young ones. Most people at the place where I work. These people can rent, but cannot get a mortgage.

 

That would make sense.

 

7 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Do the properties with 500/m mortgage and the one with 1200/m rent have similar value?

 

Well, I think so, hence 'similar'. If anything, mine is probably worth more - plot is twice as big, house maybe 40qm bigger, but hers is closer to the town centre and in a quieter spot. They are similar ages and upkeep, being ex-BiMA properties. The market here is not like big German cities. I hope it stays that way.

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51 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Did they change baukindergeld to correspond to the move-in date and not the date the contract was signed?

 

I think  it was always intended to work in this way.

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Hello experts,

I moved to Munich some time ago and got good relocation allowance form work which boosted my income in 2016, any idea if this can be explained and accepted as extraordinary income though included in the annual income and tax deceleration ! 

Can there be special considerations with respect to the applicable income limit to qualify for Kinderbaugeld, like my case?

 

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9 hours ago, Infinit said:

Hello experts,

I moved to Munich some time ago and got good relocation allowance form work which boosted my income in 2016, any idea if this can be explained and accepted as extraordinary income though included in the annual income and tax deceleration ! 

Can there be special considerations with respect to the applicable income limit to qualify for Kinderbaugeld, like my case?

 

 

Just get an appointment with your bank's "Finanzagenturleiter" (Finanzagent) and bring your Lohnabrechnungen (the summary statements from your company of your salary for the years 2016 and 2107). He can look up the exact requirements and tell you.

 

Better to do that otherwise The Judge Judy types in this forum (i.e. the regulars) will come out of the woodwork and start asking you about your personal finances, then insult you / make fun of you, then tell you "well how can we help if you don't tell us about your personal situation? (so we can drag you through the mud of course!) "

 

Good luck!

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