Health insurance status changed to "freiwillig" without my consent!

18 posts in this topic

Hi everybody, 

 

i have been Gesetzlich - Pflichtversichert insured by 2017 January then its changed to Gesetzlich - Freiwillige during that year but i have not been informed till December 21st 2017. And i have been told by my insurance company that change has been applied retrospectively for whole 2017 beginning from January 2017 till December 2017 because my employer requested it. 

 

I wonder if its really possible my insurance status can be changed without my knowledge?

 

Right now because of this change i have to re-pay whole year to insurance company again. 

 

Thanks in advance for reading it and i really appreciate answers if you know about this.

 

Best.

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you were switched to "freiwillig" as you made too much money.

 

your consent is not required.

 

normally you don't have to do anything as your employer can withhold the premium and pay it on your behalf. 

 

But it sounds like something went wrong there if you (allegedly) have to pay the premium again? 

 

Have you verified that your employer never paid your share of the premium (they can't avoid paying their own share, as far as know).  If they never paid you would see that in your pay stubs - they may claim this was your "notification" if they want to be sticky about it.  If they did pay, you don't owe the kasse, as it's paid.

 

What's going on there?  have you spoken to your employer? 

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What lisa13 wrote.

 

The premiums do not depend on your status, "freiwillig" only means you can cancel your insurance (and switch to private). Also more often than not you will have to pay the premiums yourself (while in case of pflichtversichert the employer is required to do so), so it is possible your employer did not do this, and you have backpayments due.

 

Clarify this with your employer ASAP.

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My employer doesn't exist anymore. And since they changed my status to freiwillig i'm the one who is responsible for the payments now and have to pay them again even though my payments can be seen in payrolls through whole year. My insurance company would have told me premiums were not paid much earlier and i could track down the payments and do something but they didn't till the very end of the year. 

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4 minutes ago, fmo said:

My employer doesn't exist anymore. And since they changed my status to freiwillig i'm the one who is responsible for the payments now and have to pay them again even though my payments can be seen in payrolls through whole year.

 

Then what makes you think you have to pay "again"? Whom did you talk to? How good is your German? 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, fmo said:

My employer doesn't exist anymore. And since they changed my status to freiwillig i'm the one who is responsible for the payments now and have to pay them again even though my payments can be seen in payrolls through whole year. My insurance company would have told me premiums were not paid much earlier and i could track down the payments and do something but they didn't till the very end of the year. 

One moment.

 

1. You were an employee, right?

2. Your income raised at some point 4350 euro/month before taxes, right?

 

In this case you are not pflichtversichert by law.

 

Whatever happened, take the latest paper slips and go to your Krankenkesse, in person. They will look at it, look in their system, make calls to head office if necessary, and tell you what happened.

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Then what makes you think you have to pay "again"? Whom did you talk to? How good is your German?


Insurance company is asking the payments from me now. My German is A2.2 but have German speaking people around.

 

Quote

1. You were an employee, right?

2. Your income raised at some point 4350 euro/month before taxes, right?

 

In this case you are not pflichtversichert by law.

 

Both yes and yeah now i know that. Thanks

 

Quote

When did you stop being an employee?

 

End of the this month i'm finishing working for the employer. They were facing insolvency and end of the insolvency a company bought them and they wont pay my insurance for 2017.

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31 minutes ago, fmo said:

End of the this month i'm finishing working for the employer. They were facing insolvency and end of the insolvency a company bought them and they wont pay my insurance for 2017.

 

OK, all of this has nothing to do with changing the status but with your former employer presumably not transferring the contributions to save money ... do what yourkeau suggested:

 

"take the latest paper slips* and go to your Krankenkesse, in person."

 

I supplement: All 2017 paper slips.

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If you have your payslips for 2016 and 2017, you should be able to compare them from the time when your earnings went up, and check if in parallel your + your employer contributions went up.

 

Even if in the worst case you do have to pay the difference yourself, its possible that it is only a portion of the difference - so getting your hands on those payslips is important.

 

You should also identify WHEN exactly your earnings went up. Start of 2017, end of 2017 etc...

 

And again - in a worst case scenario - if you do have a difference to pay and it is more comfortable for you, ask to pay 2017 back in monthly installments. They don't ask you to pay your current health insurance upfront for the whole year 2018, so they shouldn't particularly mind if you don't backpay all in one go. Its not as if you can travel back in time to 2017 and rack up additional doctor/dentist/hospital medical treatments and billings for them.

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3 hours ago, snowingagain said:

Article with some infomration on company insolvency and health insurance contributions which may be relevant

 

http://www.insolvenz-ratgeber.de/arbeitgeber-pleite-so-steht-es-um-ihre-krankenve/2010/07/22/

 

 

 

:rolleyes:VERY USEFUL post! Think I will add the topic to our website!!! Kudos, snowingagain!!!!!

 

Disclaimer thingy: I´m an independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser on TT

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3 hours ago, snowingagain said:

Article with some infomration on company insolvency and health insurance contributions which may be relevant

 

http://www.insolvenz-ratgeber.de/arbeitgeber-pleite-so-steht-es-um-ihre-krankenve/2010/07/22/


Thank you, i read it. Since my status has been changed to Freiwillig(Voluntarily insured) i seem to be responsible for all the payments. Im not 100% sure but i guess freiwillig contributions are not privileged so its very less likely i will receive any money from insolvency but i will try for sure.  

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2 hours ago, paulwork said:

If you have your payslips for 2016 and 2017, you should be able to compare them from the time when your earnings went up, and check if in parallel your + your employer contributions went up.

 

Even if in the worst case you do have to pay the difference yourself, its possible that it is only a portion of the difference - so getting your hands on those payslips is important.

 

You should also identify WHEN exactly your earnings went up. Start of 2017, end of 2017 etc...

 

And again - in a worst case scenario - if you do have a difference to pay and it is more comfortable for you, ask to pay 2017 back in monthly installments. They don't ask you to pay your current health insurance upfront for the whole year 2018, so they shouldn't particularly mind if you don't backpay all in one go. Its not as if you can travel back in time to 2017 and rack up additional doctor/dentist/hospital medical treatments and billings for them.

 

It took me really long time to figure out all in my payroll now i know all the details there but seems like its not that important. Its both employee and employer parts for whole year insurance company asks from me. Its really a lot of money. Yes at least insurance company made it in instalments im a bit lucky there. But still paying the money already taken from you is really painful.

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10 hours ago, fmo said:

But still paying the money already taken from you is really painful.

 

 

Are the deductions listed in the payslips? It seems you are saying the employer deducted the payments for a year from your payslip but didn't forward them to the insurance? That sounds like fraud

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Your employer withheld some of your gross salaries to pay for your 50% share of the health insurance contributions.

That way the employer - and that includes the general manager/Geschäftsführer personally with his personal money, btw - is fully liable to have made these payments on your behalf. It is a clear case of fraud if that did not happen. besides: public health insurances do not wait for longer than 3 months max. for their due payments from an employer before they foreclose on the employer's bank accounts etc. Therefore it is not plausible that no payments are supposedly been made for you for a year or more.

 

May I suggest you get a "Versicherungsberater" involved here to represent your interest towards the public health insurance? It may costs you a small fee (which you might even get reimbursed from the public health insurance if it turns out they were wrong and that "wrong" was the reason you had to hire the Versicherungsberater), but such a Versicherungsberater can represent you as a lawyer but has more intimate knowledge about health insurances rules and regulations than the average lawyer. 

 

I would recommend contacting this guy here: https://www.rwmgroup.de/diplkfm_christian_mueller-294475.html

He speaks perfect English and is a tough guy on the insurances if they don't play ball.

 

Cheerio

 

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3 hours ago, Starshollow said:

Your employer withheld some of your gross salaries to pay for your 50% share of the health insurance contributions.

That way the employer - and that includes the general manager/Geschäftsführer personally with his personal money, btw - is fully liable to have made these payments on your behalf. It is a clear case of fraud if that did not happen. besides: public health insurances do not wait for longer than 3 months max. for their due payments from an employer before they foreclose on the employer's bank accounts etc. Therefore it is not plausible that no payments are supposedly been made for you for a year or more.

 

May I suggest you get a "Versicherungsberater" involved here to represent your interest towards the public health insurance? It may costs you a small fee (which you might even get reimbursed from the public health insurance if it turns out they were wrong and that "wrong" was the reason you had to hire the Versicherungsberater), but such a Versicherungsberater can represent you as a lawyer but has more intimate knowledge about health insurances rules and regulations than the average lawyer. 

 

I would recommend contacting this guy here: https://www.rwmgroup.de/diplkfm_christian_mueller-294475.html

He speaks perfect English and is a tough guy on the insurances if they don't play ball.

 

Cheerio

 

 

Thank you will contact him.

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>  Its both employee and employer parts for whole year insurance company asks from me. Its really a lot of money.

This is a very weird story. As others have mentioned, this is only possible if your employer has run a scam to not to pay the money they were supposed to pay. Correct payment of social payments is expected from all companies (even when they don't have money for some other creditors), and the ones who are responsible (finance + directors) could have to personally pay that money and/or go to jail. 

 

In addition to having someone on your side representing you to the insurance company, you should check in with the insolvency manager for your former employer. Perhaps what actually happened is more of a documentation mix-up and you premiums have been paid. 

 

> Since my status has been changed to Freiwillig(Voluntarily insured) i seem to be responsible for all the payments.

Well, now that you are not employed, you are actually responsible for your payments. Talk to them to find out how much is that.

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