Problems getting birth certificate of Australian-born, UK passport holder

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Hi everyone!

 

My fiancé is an Aussie with a British passport by descent (thanks to his mum). I'm Mexican. We want to get married. His birth certificate is from Australia, when he was an adult he decided to get his Brit passport in order to move to Europe. His mom never felt the need to register him under a UK authority, as she spent the majority of her life in Australia. 
 

Since he's here as a Brit, they're requesting for him a "Geburtsregisterauszug" from the UK. I've explained to the ladies in the Standesamt that he has none, as he was born in Australia, and he has a British passport. One of them was adamant that we have to go to the embassy or consulate and get one. She was so rude as to suggest that since there is no impediment for anyone to register her child as British abroad, then his mother "should have registered him". Like, what the heck.

 

We reached out to the UK Embassy in Berlin, and they bemusedly answered that of course my fiancé has no birth certificate from the UK as he was born abroad and never lived there. He's simply a Brit with a birth certificate from Australia. They, in turn, insisted we explain this to the Standesamt, as they don't issue anything like this, because my fiancé is already a British citizen!

 

We're very worried :-( because my papers were issued on Nov 22 of last year (when I was visiting Mexico). His birth certificate took longer than expected - around 3 months, from getting appointments at the Consulate for certified copies of stuff all the way to getting finally the damn paper. This means - time is running out for me, by May 22nd I need to have had submitted everything. 

 

Has anyone had a similar issue? We don't know where to turn to. The people at the Standesamt that I've encountered have been so far unhelpful - one lady got upset and raised her voice at me when I asked for an alternative for this unexistent paper (DAS IST NICHT MEIN PROBLEM, DAS GEHT NICHT AN MICH AN!").

 

Thank you everyone for any help or advice you can provide! <3 <3 <3 

 

 

 

 

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Your location is North America. Can y'all just get married there? Or get married in another city. Maybe the civil servant is nicer.

 

Or, are you communicating with them in German? Do you need a translator? I mean, many people hold passports from one country and were born somewhere else, so this situation doesn't seem unusual. Why not get a copy of his Aussie birth certificate. That lists where he was born.

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I must admit that I find the attitude of the Standesamt to be very strange.

 

Have you tried taking both the Australian and British passports along and showing them, and the Australian birth certificate?

 

The only other thing I can thing of is to get married somewhere else, even in Germany, and deal with a different Standesamt.

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33 minutes ago, Elfenstar said:

Your location is North America. Can y'all just get married there? Or get married in another city. Maybe the civil servant is nicer.

 

Or, are you communicating with them in German? Do you need a translator? I mean, many people hold passports from one country and were born somewhere else, so this situation doesn't seem unusual. Why not get a copy of his Aussie birth certificate. That lists where he was born.

 

Thank you for your answer!!! Yeah I don't know why does my profile state that I'm in North America. I've been living for 5 years in DE, gotta change that ASAP.

 

I actually don't know if we can marry in another city and do the 'Anmeldung' for the marriage there - I thought you were supposed to only get married where you're registered as a resident. Do you have experience yourself in this or have known this from someone you personally know?

 

1) As with all civil servants, I talk to them in German - with them as far as I'm aware 99% of the time they don't speak anything else. I've heard of exceptions with a couple of my uni friends - at one point their assigned officer at the Auslanderbehörde in their town spoke to them in English but that's the only time I've known of something like that. 

2) His Aussie birth certificate is also required, which is the one I presented the lady when I went to inquire. It was still in English but for purposes of inquiring and informing myself, I thought it was OK so as to point and show what information it provides. The certified translation at the moment was on its way to us. Of course it lists where he was born, the name of his parents, their civil state at the time of his birth, and the place where they were born (UK). So that's why it puzzles me that they feel the need to demand a birth certificate from the UK.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

I must admit that I find the attitude of the Standesamt to be very strange.

 

Have you tried taking both the Australian and British passports along and showing them, and the Australian birth certificate?

 

The only other thing I can thing of is to get married somewhere else, even in Germany, and deal with a different Standesamt.

 

Thanks for answering me!!!!!!!!!  Here's what's complicated. Both my fiancé's passports were stolen 4 years ago. Back then, he needed urgently the UK one so he could work and live here, so that's the one he got again. Getting the Aussie one meant more of a hassle and he never really needed it so he let it be. So yeah, that option's out :-(  I've showed them the original Aussie birth certificate. 

 

Do you know if we can go directly to another city's Standesamt and get the paperwork done there without problems? Have you head any experience on this?

 

I also found the lady's attitude strange. Tomorrow my fiancé's coming with me. Stranger is, when we go together to run similar errands, he's treated nicer and usually gets what he needs even though I'm the one who speaks better German (I'm between C1/B2). But then again, in this Bürgerdienst most people seem to be in a bad mood. Call it what you want, but if he comes along and that makes things easier for us and we can get married, I'm all for it. I admit that I always am extremely careful of how I behave and what I say, as I don't want to piss off the person in charge of my papers who could very well make things hard for me here. I do get tired of crap like this though.

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You can get married anywhere (in the world) you want.  Including in another town/area in Germany.  Although I don't know the exact process for that, as although we got married in another town it was within the same Kreis so the same Standesamt dealt with it.  But you can't go to another Standesamt to get married in your own town/area.

 

If your hubby to be has more luck with them, then let him deal with it.  You can tell him what to do/say and let him do it.  In the end, whatever works is best.

It might anyway be better for him to apply for a new Australian passport.  Applying the first time after having a passport stolen is always more difficult, then renewing is easier.

 

As you are foreigners anyway, then the documents will need to be sent away for verification by a higher authority.  So maybe you can just politely tell the Standesamt to do this, and if they have an issue then the higher authority will anyway request more details or reject your application, so they have nothing to lose.  Sometimes with beamters you need to challenge them, sometimes you need to make them feel very important and that your couldn't possible do anything without them, so you need to try and judge which type they are and try and smooth things with them.

Otherwise the only thing to do is to write and complain, maybe to the local mayor.  Although this will not win you any friends, it might force the issue along.

 

Otherwise try to find in German the list of documents needed for a marriage application, print it off and point out that it does not state that the passport and birth certificate need to be from the same country.  You can even ask them "what would happen if I became a German citizen.  Would I not be able to get married because my birth certificate is does not match my passport and comes from another country?"

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47 minutes ago, DECAF_ROBS said:

...I actually don't know if we can marry in another city and do the 'Anmeldung' for the marriage there - I thought you were supposed to only get married where you're registered as a resident. Do you have experience yourself in this or have known this from someone you personally know?...

 

Quite a few people I know get married elsewhere. For example, my hubs cousin lives in Ludwigsburg, but got married near Frankfurt where the guy was from. Friends from Mannheim got married in Heidelberg. So yeah, it's possible.

 

Anyhow, I don't know where you live, but I do suggest you two go in together from now on. I know I always went with my then partner to do all the paperwork. It was just nice to do it together anyhow and since he's the German speker, there was no room for misinterpretation of anything.

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Afaik you can of course get married in another town with another Standesamt conducting the ceremony,  but you have to register in the town you live in.  So all the papers have to be handed in and checked there.

 

Your problem might be the exemption from the certificate of no impediment.  Basically,  proof that your finance is not married in the uk. Since they don't issue this certificate you need to apply for an exemption. Actually,  the Standesamt does it for you - sends it off to court. My fiancee's needed about  weeks IIRC. 

 

Depending on how big your town is,  maybe there is another Standesbeamte you can talk to if she is also rude to your fiancee. Or ask to talk to her boss. 

I also printed out the information on what we needed from a government website,  just in case they might be difficult.  Turns out they were really helpful and incredibly nice. Mannheim does have a lot of international inhabitants though so they were wire used to dealing with foreign papers.  

 

Good luck

 

Which of your papers would need renewing if you can't get everything together by the 2nd? 

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13 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

You can get married anywhere (in the world) you want.  Including in another town/area in Germany.  Although I don't know the exact process for that, as although we got married in another town it was within the same Kreis so the same Standesamt dealt with it.  But you can't go to another Standesamt to get married in your own town/area.

 

If your hubby to be has more luck with them, then let him deal with it.  You can tell him what to do/say and let him do it.  In the end, whatever works is best.

It might anyway be better for him to apply for a new Australian passport.  Applying the first time after having a passport stolen is always more difficult, then renewing is easier.

 

As you are foreigners anyway, then the documents will need to be sent away for verification by a higher authority.  So maybe you can just politely tell the Standesamt to do this, and if they have an issue then the higher authority will anyway request more details or reject your application, so they have nothing to lose.  Sometimes with beamters you need to challenge them, sometimes you need to make them feel very important and that your couldn't possible do anything without them, so you need to try and judge which type they are and try and smooth things with them.

Otherwise the only thing to do is to write and complain, maybe to the local mayor.  Although this will not win you any friends, it might force the issue along.

 

Otherwise try to find in German the list of documents needed for a marriage application, print it off and point out that it does not state that the passport and birth certificate need to be from the same country.  You can even ask them "what would happen if I became a German citizen.  Would I not be able to get married because my birth certificate is does not match my passport and comes from another country?"

 

T H A N K     Y O U   :)   This REALLY helps. Now that you point if out, it's a matter of perspective - I guess with the stress of the time constraints, and with everyday life, I got a bit narrow-minded myself and felt like this was the end of the world. I'll actually prepare a bit for what my fiancé or I will say to the lady, in case we can't get someone else. What you mention is important, exactly, in the list it doesn't say that the birth certificate and the passport have to be of the same country. Also, you're right - if I get my German nationality then can't I get married, just because I was born somewhere else?

 

I will also urge my fiancé to get his Aussie passport. He's happy to live without one, and he's laid-back in that sense - as opposed to me, I'm fussy to have my paperwork always ready and in order.

 

Thank you once again!!!!!  

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14 minutes ago, Elfenstar said:

 

Quite a few people I know get married elsewhere. For example, my hubs cousin lives in Ludwigsburg, but got married near Frankfurt where the guy was from. Friends from Mannheim got married in Heidelberg. So yeah, it's possible.

 

Anyhow, I don't know where you live, but I do suggest you two go in together from now on. I know I always went with my then partner to do all the paperwork. It was just nice to do it together anyhow and since he's the German speker, there was no room for misinterpretation of anything.

Thanks @Elfenstar !!!! We're based in Mannheim, right next to us is Ludwigshafen (already Rheinland-Pfalz) so I'll ask my friend who lives there and maybe it would be an option.

 

Yes, tomorrow we're going together. Actually, I'm the one 'in charge of paperwork' because in this case, I'm the German-speaker (ironically he's of German descent too). Due to my fiancé's job, he's usually sleeping in the morning, as he starts work on the afternoon/evening, so for him it's a bit harder to get up early and come do errands. I just thought that to inquire about stuff from the list, it was easier for me to go by myself and ask. But as I mentioned to dj_jay_smith, when we go to the Bürgerdienst or to more 'official' errands, my fiancé's treated nicer even if his grammar in German has much more faults, and he usually gets things done easier. I always nod, smile, talk politely and watch myself extremely but it's not a guarantee that things run smoothly. Huh. Anyway, we're doing everything together from now on.

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49 minutes ago, maxie said:

Afaik you can of course get married in another town with another Standesamt conducting the ceremony,  but you have to register in the town you live in.  So all the papers have to be handed in and checked there.

 

Your problem might be the exemption from the certificate of no impediment.  Basically,  proof that your finance is not married in the uk. Since they don't issue this certificate you need to apply for an exemption. Actually,  the Standesamt does it for you - sends it off to court. My fiancee's needed about  weeks IIRC. 

 

Depending on how big your town is,  maybe there is another Standesbeamte you can talk to if she is also rude to your fiancee. Or ask to talk to her boss. 

I also printed out the information on what we needed from a government website,  just in case they might be difficult.  Turns out they were really helpful and incredibly nice. Mannheim does have a lot of international inhabitants though so they were wire used to dealing with foreign papers.  

 

Good luck

 

Which of your papers would need renewing if you can't get everything together by the 2nd? 

 

Thank you so much @maxie !!!! Yeah that would have been my more specific question - doing the paperwork somewhere else. 

 

We checked this - as a non-resident Brit he has to apply for the exemption with them. From what I understood from this lady, in order for him to apply, he needs this 'Geburtsregisterauszug' from the UK which we can't provide, nor the Embassy. We already have the certificate of no impediment from his home country - which is, Australia. He'll probably need to show it again to the lady, in case that's her concern. I have a feeling that she herself isn't understanding the situation, because she argued for proof of his British nationality. She googled stuff about 'registering an adult as a UK citizen' and told me that that was the issue - that we need to hand out a document -just like the birth certificate - stating that he's a UK citizen. I told her that it's understandable that he was not registered as a UK citizen as a child, as he was born in Australia and his parents emigrated permanently. She replied some nonsense about my fiancé's mom, that she "could have registered him as an adult, so there's no excuse for this paper to not exist, ask the Embassy or Consulate again".

 

I'm in Mannheim and my experience has been otherwise. The first Beamter I had in Mannheim was terrible - impolite and only speaking to the German speaker that accompanied me back then, not even returning a "Guten Tag" or a "Tschüss". My current one in the Auslanderbehörde is OK, I guess -- she's not nice (not a smile in over a year) but she's not rude either. She can be a bit stubborn when it comes to the paperwork. I lived in Worms for 2 years, and the lady I got didn't speak English, but was a SWEETHEART. That's also where a couple of my uni friends say that they got someone who actually spoke English to them (gasp!). 

 

***PS. My papers would need to be renewed. They were issued last Nov in Mexico (Birth certificate and certificate of no impediment). I took the chance whilst I visiting to get them, trusting that we would get my fiancé's stuff quicker. 

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Funny,  we dealt with the Standesamt in Mannheim too and they were really helpful.  It might depend on who you talk to i guess. I'm sorry they are giving you so much trouble. 

 

Some other offices in the Buergeramt there were not so nice.  It is much better than when i first moved there in '97 though. K7 was a nightmare.  It looked like the processing place of a high security prison and everyone was treated like it too.  

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I think I have an inkling on where her confusion stems from. In Germany you can register German children born abroad with the Standesamt (back when I did it it was exclusively Berlin, now I think there's more of them), so my daughter has a German birth certificate in addition to her US one, despite being born in Chicago. Maybe she thinks something similar exists in the UK. Now my daughter is a UK citizen as well (UK dad), though due to falling through some cracks in the legislation as it was back then we had to petition the home office for citizenship. Which they assured us was a formality and we never heard anything from them until one day her "Certificate of Registration as a British Citizen" appeared in the post. She must have been about one then, so clearly while she was deriving her British citizenship due to birth, it was not "from birth" if that makes sense. This is what I use when there is any dispute over her UK citizenship. Maybe your husband to be has  a document like this ?

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On 5/10/2018, 10:04:06, maxie said:

Funny,  we dealt with the Standesamt in Mannheim too and they were really helpful.  It might depend on who you talk to i guess. I'm sorry they are giving you so much trouble. 

 

Some other offices in the Buergeramt there were not so nice.  It is much better than when i first moved there in '97 though. K7 was a nightmare.  It looked like the processing place of a high security prison and everyone was treated like it too.  

 Jesus, I had the chills just imagining the atmosphere back then, LOL. I am convinced after yesterday about this: it depends on who you talk to. 

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Update: My fiancé and I went together to the Standesamt, with a different lady. She was nice and helpful, and *gasp* understanding! She didn't say a thing about his birth certificate, AT ALL. Her only comment was that my documents were going to expire soon - that she couldn't guarantee us that the Oberlandesgericht would accept everything based on that. But we knew that already. Even though we went to only inquire, she took in the paperwork that we already had and just told us to hand in the remaining stuff next week. 

 

I agree with @maxie I guess it all depends who you talk to. The first lady was the one asking for this document, the 2nd lady was rude, and this one understood that my fiancé is simply a Brit citizen with an Australian passport. 

 

@Elfenstar @dj_jay_smith I think it also helped for us to go together, even if it was to inquire. Btw, the lady who had yelled at me, when she saw us arriving said "I'm too busy now, you will have to wait!" and we hadn't taken 2 seconds to move when she yelled "DRAUßEN!" and pointed to the door. Like, wtf? :blink: Ironically, when we were doing the paperwork with her colleague, another couple sat with her and she was all smiles and sweetness (they happened to be German). So I learnt that if we're doing everything right, we don't need to stress - there's always an option. Out of the 3 ladies in the office, at least one cares to do her job right ^_^ 

 

So everyone, thank you so much for your advice and support!!!! :wub: I hope that in case someone else is in the same situation, that they know that one birth certificate is enough and to see things in perspective! 

 

Wish us good luck!!!!!!! 

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On 5/11/2018, 12:15:24, Marianne013 said:

I think I have an inkling on where her confusion stems from. In Germany you can register German children born abroad with the Standesamt (back when I did it it was exclusively Berlin, now I think there's more of them), so my daughter has a German birth certificate in addition to her US one, despite being born in Chicago. Maybe she thinks something similar exists in the UK. Now my daughter is a UK citizen as well (UK dad), though due to falling through some cracks in the legislation as it was back then we had to petition the home office for citizenship. Which they assured us was a formality and we never heard anything from them until one day her "Certificate of Registration as a British Citizen" appeared in the post. She must have been about one then, so clearly while she was deriving her British citizenship due to birth, it was not "from birth" if that makes sense. This is what I use when there is any dispute over her UK citizenship. Maybe your husband to be has  a document like this ?

 

According to the UK Embassy, it applies when the person in question has been registered as such as a child, but other than that it is not a pre-requisite to obtain the British nationality. My fiancé was never registered at a British consulate or authority in Australia, he just claimed his UK citizenship when he wanted to move to Europe, 4 years ago, as an adult. So it makes sense that such a document doesn't exist. 

 

In any case, the matter has been settled because it was never an issue in the first place - the person who took our papers in didn't even make a comment about his Australian birth certificate. I think that the person who I talked to formerly was just incompetent. 

 

Thank you for your response in any case!

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I hope you remember the name of the nice lady so you can go back to her if you need to go back at all.  :D:D

 

We actually got any appointment for registering because we came with an interpreter. I went alone the first time and asked what papers we needed and the lady at the office suggested it so we wouldn't have to pay my husbands interpreter for waiting around. 

 

Glad it went well though!

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15 hours ago, DECAF_ROBS said:

 

... My fiancé was never registered at a British consulate or authority in Australia, he just claimed his UK citizenship when he wanted to move to Europe, ...

 

 

I'm glad it worked out for you OK.

 

FYI:   These days the UK government actually tries to discourage you from registering the birth at a British consulate/embassy.  I looked into this when my daughter was born a few years ago and they said that it was not necessary, would make no difference to citizenship which was valid from birth (and a passport could be requested at anytime in the future), and the cost for doing so was something like ~250 GBP, which is much more than it costs just to apply for a UK passport.

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On 13.5.2018, 12:44:34, dj_jay_smith said:

 

 

I'm glad it worked out for you OK.

 

FYI:   These days the UK government actually tries to discourage you from registering the birth at a British consulate/embassy.  I looked into this when my daughter was born a few years ago and they said that it was not necessary, would make no difference to citizenship which was valid from birth (and a passport could be requested at anytime in the future), and the cost for doing so was something like ~250 GBP, which is much more than it costs just to apply for a UK passport.

 

Huh, the government actually prefers you go with the passport, go figure. That birth registry aint cheap - plus add to the fact that for some peeps the nearest embassy might be miles away, so  you have to add travel costs. Yeah, no thanks.

 

On a side note, we went back on Wednesday, and the Beamterin confused my fiance with another British dude. She got upset because she thought we were giving her false papers - they didnt match the file that she had taken out. LOL. Then she proceeded to put my fiance´s payslips on the other dude's files. If we hadn't pointed it out, we would have lost them, because she insisted we didn't bring them with us "Yes we did, you put them on the other file, can you please take a look?" **upset look*** "Oh ja, hier sind die!" ***embarrassed smile, goes red***

 

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