Practical questions on the citizenship application (Antrag auf Einbürgerung )

126 posts in this topic

Sooooooo...

 

somewhere I’ve heard or read that it’s not permitted to make a copy of the certificate of naturalization (“Einbürgerungsurkunde”), is that true?!

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One more (dumb?) question:

 

Do I need a provisional ID card for the 3 odd weeks before my permanent ID card comes?!

 

if not, why do they offer this? I can see why you might go for the provisional passport if you know you may have to travel but if people have to have the ID all the time why not just offer the provisional card to everyone?

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4 hours ago, sos-the-rope said:

Sooooooo...

 

somewhere I’ve heard or read that it’s not permitted to make a copy of the certificate of naturalization (“Einbürgerungsurkunde”), is that true?!

 

Making a reproduction of any official certificate not clearly identifiable as a copy (e.g. by overstamping with the word 'Kopie' or of an obviously non-standard appearance in size) carries with it the risk of being accused of 'Urkundfalschung' (forgery) and that or an attempt to do so is a felony according to the German Criminal Code.

 

Whether a case such as you're asking about would ever be a problem would most likely depend on the circumstances, IMO.

 

Here's an odd one from way back in the mid-1980s.

 

A few guys I knew who worked in the US PX car sales or at off-base dealerships firms bought some fun publicity items from a US firm which produced business stationary supplies for the auto sales market. The items were intended to hand out to non-buyers who might know other potential customers they could recommend. Such intermediary contacts are known in the US market as 'bird dogs'.

 

The publicity items looked convincingly like 20$ US Treasury bills folded in half. The hidden side had a heavy black (PTO) arrow pointing to the corner with the words 'To get the other half of this bill see inside'. On the inside was printed 'XYZ promises to pay the holder $20 for the return of this filled out form' above a short prospective customer info form (name, tel number, address, bird dog name and number etc.) alongside XYZ sales persons' name, business address and phone/fax numbers etc.

 

The guys I knew who had them used to carry a few in their wallet so they'd always have one handy if they met some young soldier or airman/woman in a pub, club, bar or restaurant.

 

About 2 years after they began using them somebody started stiffing taxi-drivers in Frankfurt, Wiesbaden and Heidelberg by pretending to be too drunk to notice they'd handed the driver a 20 instead of the 5 or 10$ they'd said they had (when owing about 10 - 20 DM).  Taxi drivers, I suppose, who hadn't had the nous to use a torch to check or were just being a bit too greedy, the greedy often being the easiest targets for the conman.

 

As a result of a notable rise in the number of taxi driver complaints Kripo officers started visiting US car sales offices in FFM, WI, HU, HD collecting and confiscating all the examples of such half-note copies they could find.

 

They warned everyone that, as the official authority in Grermany, the Deutsche Bundesbank (whose bilingual instruction letter they were showing) would prosecute anyone caught issuing, or handing out, such items as they were obliged by the German and US governments to enforce the international treaties governing the issue of currency notes. IIRC the threatened sanctions were up to 50K DM fines and 5 years imprisonment.

 

I remember arguing that was ridiculous considering that the samples (I had 2 or 3 from the US printer) were so obviously NOT mistakeable for the real McCoy due to only having half of one side looking dollar-like on top of which, being made in the USA, I seriously doubted the US Treasury would give a toss about them.

 

The Kripomann countered that with the argument that, since they had already had over 24 complaints from taxi-drivers in 3 different cities, they had no doubt that similar items had been passed off as US 20$ bills by one or more active criminal(s) and thus the samples fulfilled their legal definition of forged currency as items which could be used in crime with intent to decieve by making them appear to be genuine.

 

2B

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3 hours ago, sos-the-rope said:

Do I need a provisional ID card for the 3 odd weeks before my permanent ID card comes?!

 

The ID card is a travel document too, of course.  If going to, say, Poland or Spain, Germans would take an Ausweis, not a passport, on that sort of trip. I use mine to enter places like Serbia too, it is usable to travel to some places beyond EU / Schengen.  

 

If you had some important obligation where ID was needed you might get one but I don't think many people do.

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You need an ID of some kind. 

Your UK passport will fill the requirement for the three weeks needed if it is still valid, but if it expires before the ID card arrives then you might need the temporary document.

 

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10 hours ago, sos-the-rope said:

Sooooooo...

 

somewhere I’ve heard or read that it’s not permitted to make a copy of the certificate of naturalization (“Einbürgerungsurkunde”), is that true?!

 

Probably, you know what us Germans are like. I know nobody is allowed to make a copy of your Ausweis. Anyway...when I went to pick mine up, my Beamte told me it would be a good idea to make a quick copy of it. I took a photo of it there and then in his office. I'm sure there is a long "§" somewhere about it, but I personally don't care. I got a copy.

 

10 hours ago, sos-the-rope said:

One more (dumb?) question:

 

Do I need a provisional ID card for the 3 odd weeks before my permanent ID card comes?!

 

if not, why do they offer this? I can see why you might go for the provisional passport if you know you may have to travel but if people have to have the ID all the time why not just offer the provisional card to everyone?

 

I was told it doesn't matter, as long as you apply for one as soon as you can. It is not so strict. It took me 3 months to even get an appointment to make an application and another month before I went to pick it up.

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10 hours ago, sos-the-rope said:

One more (dumb?) question:

 

Do I need a provisional ID card for the 3 odd weeks before my permanent ID card comes?!

 

if not, why do they offer this? I can see why you might go for the provisional passport if you know you may have to travel but if people have to have the ID all the time why not just offer the provisional card to everyone?

 

I wasn't even offered this, but probably would not have taken it.  I figured the certificate of naturalisation was enough IF i needed to prove anything in the few weeks I had to wait for my ID card.

 

 

I took a scan of my naturalisation certificate, but it is clear that it is a "bad quality" copy.  I assume that keeping a copy of important documents is not going to get you in trouble.  The only problems will be if you try to use this copy.  But the only time you should ever need this document is when you apply first time for your ID card, after that I think you should only ever need in rare cases.  

 

 

 

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I got a phonecall yesterday to say that my Einburgerung had been approved.

It has taken less than three weeks for them to process my application - is this a record?

 

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27 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

I got a phonecall yesterday to say that my Einburgerung had been approved.

It has taken less than three weeks for them to process my application - is this a record?

 

 

Wow!  Must be.  Must also be an example of prioritising Brits.

 

My local Beamter told me that the quickest case he had took 6 weeks.  And I was happy with my 3 months 10 days!

 

Don't forget that you are not German until you actually pick up your certificate!

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

Don't forget that you are not German until you actually pick up your certificate!

 

 

 

 

 

(just between the two of us, I don't feel German at all!!!)

 

Still, I have an appointment to pick up my certificate tomorrow.

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16 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

 

(just between the two of us, I don't feel German at all!!!)

 

Still, I have an appointment to pick up my certificate tomorrow.

 

Don't worry, I won't tell anyone!

@World @AngelaMerkel @Henning Schacht   @Bundestag @Bild #Traitor

 

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Wow well done robinson, just for the others coming behind, which state are you in that managed to get it processed so quickly?

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9 hours ago, robinson100 said:

(just between the two of us, I don't feel German at all!!!)

 

what exactly does it feel like?!

 

Anyhow, sounds like typical German angst to me ;-)

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3 hours ago, pappnase said:

Wow well done robinson, just for the others coming behind, which state are you in that managed to get it processed so quickly?

 

I am in Starnberg, near Munich.

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On 21.2.2019, 09:22:34, robinson100 said:

(just between the two of us, I don't feel German at all!!!)

 

Our Bürgermeister spoke very well, I think with that in mind. He majored on us becoming full citizens of our town, not of becoming Germans. This is much easier to process and I found it very helpful. 

 

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Well, I had my appointment, and collected the thing today, and now sort of feel a bit lost.

It was a lot of hard work and stress, and now there is no more hard work and stress,a nd it all seems rather strange.

Still, I am glad I went through the process and that I have my piece of paper!

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On 2/22/2019, 8:03:38, robinson100 said:

Well, I had my appointment, and collected the thing today, and now sort of feel a bit lost.

It was a lot of hard work and stress, and now there is no more hard work and stress,a nd it all seems rather strange.

Still, I am glad I went through the process and that I have my piece of paper!

 

I know exactly what you mean mate.

 

A lot of actual leg work, study, nerve-wracking appointments and waiting, and the emotional baggage of "changing my nationality" even though clearly this is a commitment we already made in reality (otherwise why do we want to stay?!) and this is a legal/political formality.

 

Suddenly it's all over.

 

I try to think of the possibilities, now I can relax a bit and get on with things I really want to do, in future I can use the EU-wide opportunities (even) more, I need to think about voting as a full citizen, etc. etc.

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