Practical questions on the citizenship application (Antrag auf Einbürgerung )

154 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, nina_glyndwr said:

So.. if you studied German in the UK, they probably won't accept it.

 

Hmm, again this varies considerably by state.

Remember the requirement is that you satisfy the relevant authority that you speak 'sufficient German', and the examining officer has a lot of discretion allowed. The only thing explicitly stated in the legislation that proves this is a B1 certificate, but they are free to allow you to apply without it.

 

Here in Bremen, my Beamter was happy to just do a quick test in the office, no formal qualification needed.

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I think it even varies between cities in the same state. A few days ago my ex in Bonn showed me their "list" of required docs. All theIr Beamter wanted was:

 

- Passport copy

- Birth Cert 

- B1+ Einbuergerungstest certs

- Last 3 payslips

- Arbeitsbestaetigung letter from employer

- Completed Antrag + cash + photos

- Lebenslauf

 

No versicherungsverlauf required or any of that stuff. The only thing that could make it so simple is that theyve been angemeldet in the same apartment for aaages and with the same employer for aaages - and its a real big name traditional Urdeutsch German employer . I told them they could still receive something through the post in a few months asking for more.

 

Because as far as I understand it from Toytowners, the process is often something like below - they just did step 3 and didn't even get a checklist 2.

 

0) Go to an optional Beratung (usually no appointment required) and get issued required docs checklist 1 on-the-spot + blank Antrag

 

1) Do your B1 + Citizenship test if not done already. Renew your UK passport if expiring within next 12 months.

 

2) Book a doc handover appointment / gather docs in checklist 1, complete Antrag.

 

3) Attend doc handover appointment. Pay most/all of application fee. Get issued required docs checklist 2 on-the-spot. Sign authorisation doc to allow them to cross-check with Police/Authorities etc...

 

4) Gather docs from checklist 2. Either post or hand in person to Sachbearbeiter.

 

5) Wait for further contact. Either more docs will be required or nothing more from your side.

 

6) (If approved) Collect your citizenship cert at the town hall ceremony. Or if you don't want to attend the ceremony / can't make the date / don't want to be in the newspaper, collect it from the Amt. If you didn't so far pay all/any application fee, this would be when you do it.

 

7) (optional) Apply for 1-page Personalausweis wallet-size ID card and/or Passport.

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9 hours ago, nina_glyndwr said:

I read that Kate Humble, the BBC correspondent for Germany, had to do the language exam despite having studied German at university in the UK. 

 

I mean this in the sweetest possible way because I watch Kate Humble on science programmes, Horizon etc... But I think you meant Katya Adler.  You had me disappointed for a moment there , thinking that she's no longer doing nature/science shows. I was checking google and allsorts LOL :-)

 

Either way, I didn't even know the correspondent one was dual national UK/German, so I've learned something new :-)

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8 hours ago, paulwork said:

I think it even varies between cities in the same state. A few days ago my ex in Bonn showed me their "list" of required docs. All theIr Beamter wanted was:

 

- Passport copy

- Birth Cert 

- B1+ Einbuergerungstest certs

- Last 3 payslips

- Arbeitsbestaetigung letter from employer

- Completed Antrag + cash + photos

- Lebenslauf

 

No versicherungsverlauf required or any of that stuff. The only thing that could make it so simple is that theyve been angemeldet in the same apartment for aaages and with the same employer for aaages - and its a real big name traditional Urdeutsch German employer . I told them they could still receive something through the post in a few months asking for more.

 

...

 

The exact requirements do vary according to your own circumstances.  So there will be differences even within the same town for different people.

For some requirements they also acept multiple ways to provide the proof, and therefore specific Beamters or towns might have preferences for one above another.

 

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They gave me the full list and just ticked the stuff I personally needed to bring. The entire list is over 2sides of A4 so there are a lot of permutations.

 

Here they also will not ratlos you to take the language exam until after the second appointment as you need a referral Schein from them. As I have been waiting since April for my second appointment (which is next week) I asked multiple times if I could take the test in the interim, and they repeatedly refused. So there is a great deal of variety even in the simple requirements. 

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We can surely obtain B1 certification (or +) whenever we like?  It's a free country.  (Assuming we're paying for it).  You do mean the language, not the naturalisation (for which there can indeed be a wait list, whatever the process)?   It's freely available from accredited exam centres of the exam awarding bodies (telc or goethe), the best known of which is VHS.  Sittings run frequently because of high demand.   

 

If we pitch up with a B1 certification or higher from one of the accredited institutes, we have what is required.   How it is sourced is not relevant here.   It's a very very very long time since any of my family did this process in F-Hain but they'd long since got the language qual before even applying.   (Same as I did where I applied).    You seriously might want to consider that because by the time you add in test registration and results lag times, and the Christmas close, followed by academic close (typically at least all Feb), the time is going to add up, before the current March 2019 Brexit date.   The Berlin website even says this is all that is needed, in line with the BAMF norm (my bold):

 

Quote

Sprachkenntnisse 

ausreichende Deutschkenntnisse, die mindestens dem Sprachniveau nach B 1 des gemeinsamen europäischen Referenzrahmens entsprechen

 

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/318998/

 

Similarly, if you have not done the naturalisation test, usually at a VHS, you might want to book that asap.  Few seem to be scheduled in Berlin from now through to next April, and that's largely because of the long academic semester break and Xmas.  So initial Brexit deadline gone again.  (Unless you go somewhere else, I suppose).   

 

EDIT - I have read a bit more.  There is a "language test for naturalisation" but it seems to exist to serve the purpose if you do not have a recognised certificate. (See info sheet about it that can be downloaded on this page, I picked this VHS because this is where the naturalisation tests mainly).   Even that also says B1 certification is enough for naturalisation.  It would probably be best to get a recognised certificate by the sound of it, asap:

 

https://www.berlin.de/vhs/volkshochschulen/reinickendorf/kurse/deutsch/

 

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1 hour ago, evildudette said:

They gave me the full list and just ticked the stuff I personally needed to bring. The entire list is over 2sides of A4 so there are a lot of permutations.

 

Here they also will not ratlos you to take the language exam until after the second appointment as you need a referral Schein from them. As I have been waiting since April for my second appointment (which is next week) I asked multiple times if I could take the test in the interim, and they repeatedly refused. So there is a great deal of variety even in the simple requirements. 

 

 

Similar to @swimmer, I don't quite understand what you mean here.

 

Why do you need a referral for the language exam?  Are they paying for it?

From my experience at the beginning of the year then I had apply minimum 6 weeks before the language exam, there was an exam every month, then I waited about 8 weeks before I could pick up the certificate of my result.

So if you wait for the for the Amt to tell you to do it then you will be waiting a lot time before you can go back, and then you will have to wait longer for the appointment.

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They said they will only accept either VHS or Goethe (if you don't have something already). VHS apparently requires some form of schein to allow you to take just the test. It sounded odd but I spoke to different people at the Amt and they both said the same thing.  I tried to book a test with VHS regardless and they asked for the form from the Amt, which of course I don't have yet.  They don't accept ordinary language course completion certificates which is fair enough, even though I've done both B2 and C1, they aren't the right ones so don't count. After that I was done arguing about it in all honesty.  I agree it makes absolutely no sense, but I was done.

 

I did the Einbuergerungstest months ago so no worries there.

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16 minutes ago, evildudette said:

They said they will only accept either VHS or Goethe (if you don't have something already). VHS apparently requires some form of schein to allow you to take just the test.

 

You can always go somewhere else and do it.   Plenty of private providers will take your money, and probably VHS is other cities.   I didn't do my last certification where I lived. I had to go somewhere else.   

 

Yes, it has to be certification of competence, not merely course participation.  VHS is not an awarding body, though, just another accredited test centre.  telc is the other awarding body and that's the most common certification because it's what people on the formal integration route do.   They'd be on dodgy ground if they didn't accept an accredited B1(+) qualification from either awarding body because of who the provider is or because you have only now obtained it, or other such.   Never mind if confronted with a C1.  

 

As I just edited above, even the information on what you seem to describe says it's only needed if you don't have certification.  Nobody I know going through the process in Berlin has mentioned this exam (although that does not mean they are not doing it but they possibly would be talking, especially given the long delay).

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Excellent :lol:.   JFDI, somehow.   The other thing is that, if you are C1, then perhaps go for that, anyway, if accessible. (This was the one I had to travel for).   Why not?   That other one's only ever gonna be B1.

 

EDIT - The other thing about going higher is it gets you off the B1 pipeline.   If they are controlling access to that, presumably because of high demand and requirement to prioritise mandatory participants, it offers more options.  This B1 one it seems anyone can just put in their VHS shopping cart, no apparent state gatekeeper :lol: - but note the only one before Feb.  This page also has that other test at the end "for people who have not got certification".  They have put you on a less useful route by the sounds of it.

 

https://www.vhsit.berlin.de/VHSKURSE/BusinessPages/CourseList.aspx

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Irritatingly I discovered some private schools have exams today and tomorrow, but you have to register at least a week in advance.

 

Although saying that, I'm spending today photocopying all my documentation and there's a real chance I won't manage to get through it by Monday morning as it is, given it's about three volumes of the Encyclopaedia Britannica :lol:

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9 hours ago, evildudette said:

They said they will only accept either VHS or Goethe (if you don't have something already). VHS apparently requires some form of schein to allow you to take just the test. It sounded odd but I spoke to different people at the Amt and they both said the same thing.  I tried to book a test with VHS regardless and they asked for the form from the Amt, which of course I don't have yet.  They don't accept ordinary language course completion certificates which is fair enough, even though I've done both B2 and C1, they aren't the right ones so don't count. After that I was done arguing about it in all honesty.  I agree it makes absolutely no sense, but I was done.

 

I did the Einbuergerungstest months ago so no worries there.

 

There is a special test for Einbürgerung in Berlin and it costs only 25EUR instead of 120-180EUR for telc DTZ or telc B1 or Goethe-Zertifikat B1.

 

Quote

Die Berliner Volkshochschulen bieten in Zusammenarbeit mit den Einbürgerungsbehörden einen einheitlichen Sprachtest im Land Berlin an.

 

Berliner Sprachtest zur Einbürgerung

Termine für Sprachtests zur Einbürgerung 

Such as this exam => https://www.vhsit.berlin.de/VHSKURSE/BusinessPages/CourseDetail.aspx?id=506983

 

Quote

Der Test dauert etwa 45 Minuten und besteht aus einem Teil „Leseverstehen“ (30 Minuten) und einer „Mündlichen Prüfung“ (15 Minuten). Das Ergebnis kann am Tag nach dem Sprachtest bei der Volkshochschule erfragt werden.

 

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Yes that must be what they are talking about as they said I can usually take it within a week, and I remember the cost they gave me being less than what I read for the ZD. It looks like I can potentially take it on Tuesday and could get it wrapped up pretty quickly.

 

Thanks a lot, very helpful!

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To close the loop - that is indeed the sprachtest they want me to take, and it can only be taken in your Bezirk.  That means I can't take it in Spandau tomorrow, and must wait for an available appointment in Friedrichshain. She also said not to hold my breath about getting it through in time, even though they are fasttracking the Brits.

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27 minutes ago, evildudette said:

that is indeed the sprachtest they want me to take, and it can only be taken in your Bezirk.  That means I can't take it in Spandau tomorrow, and must wait for an available appointment in Friedrichshain.

 

Which language test are they insisting that you take it in your Bezirk? The telc tests are certified and it doesn't matter where you take them. Or does Spandau offer a special test for their applicants?

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It's the 'Sprachtest zur Einbuergerung' that Ohng linked to above. It's by coincidence that Spandau is offering this test tomorrow.  The advantage with these tests is that they are cheaper (25e), seemingly shorter in length, and the amt gets the results directly within a couple of days so you don't have to wait ages for the results. The test appears to be available every couple of weeks, and you need a referral to register so you don't have to wait too long.

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