Ordinarily resident question

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Hi all, I know this gets talked about here often and I'm so sorry, but it sort of seems like there aren't clear and hard lines drawn between ordinarily resident status and not. I'm looking to hopefully apply to jobs on the military bases in Stuttgart as a civilian (I've never been in the military) but I don't know which ones I can apply to. I just got married to a German citizen in the U.S. (I'm a U.S. citizen) and I haven't been to Germany in exactly a year now. I've spent the entire year in the U.S., I've never worked under the German system or had to pay German tax, and the longest I lived there at once was 1.5 years. When I arrive in Germany in the upcoming months I'll be applying for my residence permit with my husband. Would it automatically make me ordinarily resident? Sorry for asking but I really hope someone is able to help! 

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5 minutes ago, Kartoffeln said:

Hi all, I know this gets talked about here often and I'm so sorry, but it sort of seems like there aren't clear and hard lines drawn between ordinarily resident status and not.

 

Oh, there is a very clear and hard line: Either you are a resident or not.

 

5 minutes ago, Kartoffeln said:

When I arrive in Germany in the upcoming months I'll be applying for my residence permit with my husband. Would it automatically make me ordinarily resident? 

 

What do you mean by "ordinarily resident"? There actually is no such thing. If you get a residence permit, you are a resident. Full stop. The act of applying itself doesn't make you anything, you will be a resident when you get your residence permit. 

 

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Although I'm British I worked on US Army Grafenwöhr in 2001. I worked as a contractor to a rather shite American multinational, for a branch of the DPW. Good luck.

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:PBlimey, fraufruit! German husbands - like most men - are useless a helping their foreign spouses! I bet he doesn´t have a clue!!

(opinion is  sarcastic but also based on my  business experience !!)

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MIne looked it all up and did everything necessary to keep me here. Many phone calls. Much bogus information - the usual - but he did it. I just followed his lead and went along to all the appointments with him by my side. Oh the days of being in love.

 

Would he speak German with me or teach it to me? Hell no.

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32 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

What do you mean by "ordinarily resident"?

 

I suspect she probably means "ordinarily resident" in the sense of tax resident ("steuerlich ansässig"), which almost certainly she would be. If Germany has become her center of life, she'll be a tax resident in Germany, whatever your immigration status is.

 

@kartoffel Can you confirm what you mean exactly?

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2 minutes ago, Smaug said:

 

I suspect she probably means "ordinarily resident" in the sense of tax resident ("steuerlich ansässig"), which almost certainly she would be. If Germany has become her center of life, she'll be a tax resident in Germany, whatever your immigration status is.

 

For civilian employment on the bases:

 

Ordinarily Resident: A person with ordinarily resident status is a U.S. citizen to whom one of the following applies:

  1. Before 1 January 2005, the person obtained a work permit or worked in the local job market without NATO Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) status while residing in the host country.
     
  2. After 1 January 2005, the person obtained a residence permit and engaged in a business activity or was employed in the local job market while residing in the host country. This includes a person who has requested a residence permit for working purposes or to pursue gainful employment.
     
  3. The person resided in the host country for the time shown below without status as a member of the U.S. Forces or civilian component as defined by the NATO SOFA:
     
    1. In Belgium: 90 days.
       
    2. In Germany: 1 year.

NOTE:   To no longer be considered ordinarily resident, the individual and applicable family members (spouse and dependent children) must form an affiliation with another country and establish a bona fide resident status in that country for the minimum amount of time required by the former country's rules to terminate ordinarily resident status in that specific country.

 

Obviously I'll have obtained a residence permit but it says "AND" employed in local job market, which I never was. That and I've established a bona fide resident status in the US for an entire year which I'm not sure about but may be the minimum amount of time to terminate OR status... 

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@Kartoffeln, it's been near on 9 years since I retired from government service here in Germany.  I'll be very honest.  Your chances are very, very slim. 

 

The reasons.  Germany downsized twice in the past 30 years.  Today, there is very little left compared to the 1980s.  That alone leaves few job positions.  The other reason is competition.  There is a large number of Americans here, who, like you (or you will be) are Ordinarily Resident.  They work for AAFES in Burger King, the PX, etc., in hopes of making contacts and obtaining a better job.  It's a huge gamble as that Burger King job pays little.  Nothing against a BK job, if that puts a smile on your face.  But it would take a very long time to get to something better and it depends upon your qualifications.

 

There being no consulate in Stuttgart, that also limits opportunities.

 

@Smaug and @someonesdaughter  Ordinarily Resident and Non-Ordinarily Resident are terms the US State Department (and other departments who are overseas) uses to differentiate between stateside hires and non stateside hires.  Nothing more than that.

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@BayrischDude I definitely don't mind working a minimum wage job since I'm only going to be there temporarily, but do you know if I'd be able to work for AAFES?

 

9 minutes ago, BayrischDude said:

There being no consulate in Stuttgart, that also limits opportunities.

 

What do you mean by this? Does this make a difference somehow?

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2 minutes ago, Kartoffeln said:

 

What do you mean by this? Does this make a difference somehow?

 

It just means that there are no consulate jobs.

 

 

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

MIne looked it all up and did everything necessary to keep me here. Many phone calls. Much bogus information - the usual - but he did it. I just followed his lead and went along to all the appointments with him by my side. Oh the days of being in love.

 

Would he speak German with me or teach it to me? Hell no.

Make it some German spouses will help! Mine did, and was very pro-active.  I am English, so EU made it all easy.

Also, despite German speaking spouse ,and me speaking some German, many at the Amts were very happy to use their English!

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8 hours ago, Kartoffeln said:

@BayrischDude I definitely don't mind working a minimum wage job since I'm only going to be there temporarily, but do you know if I'd be able to work for AAFES?

 

 

Again, you could try, but consider your competition.  Should have mentioned this last night.

 

How many people work on the Stuttgart bases today?  No clue.  Safe to say, quite a lot.  Family members want to work too.  So, in all honesty, who has a better chance if two people who are equally qualified apply for a cashier job?  A soldier's wife or an American who has no military affiliation?  Reality.

 

AAFES is a quasi-contractor.  The wife of Sergeant Smith is employed by AAFES at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, while he is stationed there.  They move to Wiesbaden, Germany.  Due to her three years with AAFES at Fort Bragg, they find an opening for her with AAFES in Wiesbaden.  When they return to the states, she has 6 years with AAFES and is again able to get a job.  That is your competition.

 

I'm not telling you it's impossible.  I'm telling you it is a very difficult gig to get.  I'm telling you that on a base or post, the military is going to take care of it's own first.  But, if working for the US Government truly is your goal, then by all means try.

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10 hours ago, Kartoffeln said:

Obviously I'll have obtained a residence permit but it says "AND" employed in local job market, which I never was. That and I've established a bona fide resident status in the US for an entire year which I'm not sure about but may be the minimum amount of time to terminate OR status... 

 

 

11 hours ago, Kartoffeln said:

I just got married to a German citizen in the U.S. (I'm a U.S. citizen) and I haven't been to Germany in exactly a year now. I've spent the entire year in the U.S., I've never worked under the German system or had to pay German tax, and the longest I lived there at once was 1.5 years. When I arrive in Germany in the upcoming months I'll be applying for my residence permit with my husband.

 

Once you register (anmelden) and receive your residence permit you'll be considered "ordinarily resident" and not be eligible for certain jobs. 

 

Keep in mind that you'll need A1 German for your residence permit.

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I just went through the exact same thing.  US citizen married German citizen in the US and then we moved to Germany.  Basically you register with the local office in the town you are setting up residence.  Then make an appointment at the immigration office in your district.  You will be given a residence permit that allows you to work, it lasts 3 years.  You need A1 language proficiency to get the permit unless you have a college degree and then you are exempt.  You'll need B1 after 3 years to get a permanent permit.  Be sure your passport is good at least 3 years after you arrive ( I made that costly and time wasting mistake).  There are lots of ins and outs with drivers licenses etc.  pm me if you have any questions.

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23 hours ago, Kartoffeln said:

Hi all, I know this gets talked about here often and I'm so sorry, but it sort of seems like there aren't clear and hard lines drawn between ordinarily resident status and not. I'm looking to hopefully apply to jobs on the military bases in Stuttgart as a civilian (I've never been in the military) but I don't know which ones I can apply to. I just got married to a German citizen in the U.S. (I'm a U.S. citizen) and I haven't been to Germany in exactly a year now. I've spent the entire year in the U.S., I've never worked under the German system or had to pay German tax, and the longest I lived there at once was 1.5 years. When I arrive in Germany in the upcoming months I'll be applying for my residence permit with my husband. Would it automatically make me ordinarily resident? Sorry for asking but I really hope someone is able to help! 

 

Once you arrive to Germany and get a residency permit you would be an ordinarily resident and would be disqualified from arguably the nicer civilian jobs. Why not apply now from the US? If you get picked you'll get your move paid for.

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On 4/25/2018, 9:50:10, Kartoffeln said:

Obviously I'll have obtained a residence permit but it says "AND" employed in local job market, which I never was. That and I've established a bona fide resident status in the US for an entire year which I'm not sure about but may be the minimum amount of time to terminate OR status... 

 

When you arrive in Germany and receive your Aufenthaltstitel, you will still be able to apply for U.S. jobs in both the Appropriated Funds (GS) and Non-Appropriated Funds (AAFES and MWR) markets.  You must be able to demonstrate you are a U.S. citizen, which your passport will do, and prove you have not worked in the local market prior to applying for any jobs, which is normally checking the appropriate box on the application form.

 

If you meet the criteria and apply for a GS job, you will be at the bottom of the preference list, but you will be a "local hire" and will NOT be "ordinarily resident".  The local hire means you will not normally receive living and quarters allowance, have a transportation agreement, receive post allowance, and will not be able to accrue annual leave beyond 240 hours per year.  However, a local hire receives the other benefits available to all GS employees overseas, to include dependent ID cards for your spouse and family members over the age of 10 and access to military installations and schools for dependents.

 

If you start working on the local economy, then you will become ordinarily resident and excluded from the GS market.  I'm not sure about the NAF market, as I have very little experience with its personnel side.

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I just went through this with the commissary on Ramstein. Its better and easier for you to apply now in the states and get hired from the states. 

 

If you dont and you move to Germany you have exactly one year from the day you land to get hired before you are disqualified. When you land you cannot get a civilian job on the economy. You can and should register and you can apply foe your residence permit. There is no waivor for the one year rule. I got a call back for a job with three weeks to spare. Started the hiring process and the Army lost my background packet. My background came back 3 days after the one year was up and they would not hire me. 

 

Good luck. If you need help with usajobs advise pm me. Its an awful system. 

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On 4/28/2018, 7:53:54, JG52 said:

 

When you arrive in Germany and receive your Aufenthaltstitel, you will still be able to apply for U.S. jobs in both the Appropriated Funds (GS) and Non-Appropriated Funds (AAFES and MWR) markets.  You must be able to demonstrate you are a U.S. citizen, which your passport will do, and prove you have not worked in the local market prior to applying for any jobs, which is normally checking the appropriate box on the application form.

 

If you meet the criteria and apply for a GS job, you will be at the bottom of the preference list, but you will be a "local hire" and will NOT be "ordinarily resident".  The local hire means you will not normally receive living and quarters allowance, have a transportation agreement, receive post allowance, and will not be able to accrue annual leave beyond 240 hours per year.  However, a local hire receives the other benefits available to all GS employees overseas, to include dependent ID cards for your spouse and family members over the age of 10 and access to military installations and schools for dependents.

 

If you start working on the local economy, then you will become ordinarily resident and excluded from the GS market.  I'm not sure about the NAF market, as I have very little experience with its personnel side.

 

Thank you so much, this is some of the most helpful information I've received so far. Does this mean I can apply for jobs that are listed as "open to the public"? Also I thought "local hire" was only for citizens rather than just residents, was I wrong?

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16 hours ago, Kartoffeln said:

Thank you so much, this is some of the most helpful information I've received so far. Does this mean I can apply for jobs that are listed as "open to the public"? Also I thought "local hire" was only for citizens rather than just residents, was I wrong?

 

Yes, you can apply for any job that is open to the public.  The term "local hire" describes a person who was recruited from outside the continental U.S. (CONUS) and does not have a valid transportation agreement back to CONUS.  If you apply for and accept an overseas Government job while you are in the U.S., you will not be a local hire. The catch is all of the hiring actions must occur while you are still in the States.  If you apply for a job from the States, then travel to Germany and later accept the job, you will be a local hire.

 

The hiring process is slow and cumbersome, but once started in the States, it must be completed in the States (there might be exceptions, but I don't know of any).  I've been the selecting official for many recruitment actions, and it's common for applicants who were selected to get tired of waiting for the formal offer from the servicing Civilian Personnel Advisory Center (CPAC) and accept jobs elsewhere.  In at least three cases, the delay between the selection and the formal offer was almost a year.

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