Muslim Police Officer fined for refusing to shake female colleague's hand

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Police officer from Rhineland-Palatinate was tried for possible non loyalty to German Constitution, after he refused to shake hand with his female colleague.

 

He got 1000 euro fine and had to write a note that he respects the free and democratic order of Germany, recognizes equal rights of men and women and understands that next time he will be fired.

https://justillon.de/2018/03/polizist-darf-kollegin-den-handschlag-nicht-verweigern/

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5 minutes ago, bramble said:

Muslim police officer. Why so PC? Say it as it is.

I missed the Muslim part. That was not intentional.

 

Quote

We've had this non-handshaking with women discusssion on TT before. 

I come from non handshaking country, we have no Muslims, a Christian country. But you do not shake hand to a woman. When I do, many women react weird / refuse to shake my hand.

 

That's why I didn't think of Muslims and simply missed this paragraph. Sorry about that.

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11 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

I missed the Muslim part. That was not intentional.

 

I come from non handshaking country, we have no Muslims, a Christian country. But you do not shake hand to a woman. When I do, many women react weird / refuse to shake my hand.

 

That's why I didn't think of Muslims and simply missed this paragraph. Sorry about that.

 

I was first going to say bollocks, but I've just done a quick google and found that your reference to not shaking hands with women in Ukraine seems to be true. 

 

Quote

 

No handshakes during the first meeting.

The women of Ukraine see handshakes as improper, especially from a man they’ve just met. It’s a social quirk that, if you’re unaware of it, may make you stumble on your first approach to your woman’s heart.

Upon meeting your date for the first time, a simple greeting is better and no physical contact is recommended. When you become closer to your lady, a kiss on the cheek becomes an acceptable greeting.

 

http://internationalsinglesclub.com/dating-101-by-country/dating-women-in-ukraine.html

 

At least I hope you shake hands with women here in Germany. It would be considered impolite if you don't. 

 

 

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it's not so common to shake hands with women in the US either (men do it amongst themselves far less frequently than they do here, and women and men, hardly at all, just out of...nothing in particular I think.  Handshaking is just not a "thing" in most situations outside of sales and other situations where posturing is still important, from what I recall).  I am really not sure how or why I started shaking during introductions in US working situations, but regardless, offering my hand led to quite a few awkward shakes, though I never had any refused outright.

 

it is extra important in German speaking countries - so much so that I would never leap to the conclusion that someone was "muslim" just because they didn't shake my hand, rather I'd simply assume they were not German/Swiss/Austrian.  And I would not care one whit if the reason turns out to be "deep" conviction of some kind.  It's still unacceptable.  You don't want to touch women so bad you're willing to basically insult them to preserve your beliefs?  that's fine, just do it elsewhere.  leave. 

 

eta to whit...I got a visit from the...I'm not sure what they are.  Some branch of the police that follows up on unanswered blitz letters.  Oopsie!  Anyway, the cop looked at my drivers license and realized my birthday was the day prior, and he immediately stopped writing, turned, gave me his full attention and eye contact, grabbed my hand, started shaking enthusiastically and gave me the hearty "ALLES GUTE!!!!"

 

 Handshakes here are a sort of bonding experience and yes, totally obligatory.  It's adorable and pretty great, but I daresay it's not "normal" when compared with other cultures.  It's very easy to underestimate just how important it is, if you are not paying attention.

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25 minutes ago, bramble said:

At least I hope you shake hands with women here in Germany. It would be considered impolite if you don't. 

Thank you for lecturing me. I didn't know that. ;)

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9 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

Handshaking is just not a "thing" in most situations outside of sales and other situations where posturing is still important, from what I recall).  I am really not sure how or why I started shaking during introductions in US working situations, but regardless, offering my hand led to quite a few awkward shakes, though I never had any refused outright.

You prefer to kiss instead :wub:

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5 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Thank you for lecturing me. I didn't know that. ;)

 

I wasn't lecturing you. The point is that it's impolite to refuse a handshake with a woman just because she's a woman. 

 

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1 minute ago, yourkeau said:

You prefer to kiss instead :wub:

eh...it happens more than I'd like :(

 

it's never pervy, but I always found it very awkward when someone I didn't know *at work* tried to kiss me on the cheek.  And yes it does happen.

 

the norm is you just say "hi" and keep some distance.  maybe give a little wave or something equally uncomfortable (but I'm in software, we're pretty socially uncomfortable from get go)

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10 minutes ago, bramble said:

 

I wasn't lecturing you. The point is that it's impolite to refuse a handshake with a woman just because she's a woman. 

 

HALLO, I AM THREAD OPENER!! I created this thread exactly to illustrate that, and you are lecturing me!

 

11 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

it's never pervy, but I always found it very awkward when someone I didn't know *at work* tried to kiss me on the cheek.  And yes it does happen.

I thought the etiquette is to wait for a woman to make the first move? Some offer a hand, some offer a cheek, some offer a hug: you never know in advance (unless this is official situation). That's weird: when you don't know someone, they have to tell their name, so for this handshake is handy.

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4 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

HALLO, I AM THREAD OPENER!! I created this thread exactly to illustrate that, and you are lecturing me!

 

You don't have to shout. You said you didn't know that it was impolite not to shake hands with women.

 

28 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

I didn't know that

 

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That was sarcasm, bramble.

 

Don't be so German, this is an expat forum, so some Sarcasm 101 is a minimum requirement to post here.

 

Am I right, Mr. President @jaycool?

 

When you get to Notaufnahme in Germany, it gets about 15 handshakes (mostly with women) from the ambulance to surgery. Refusing to shake hand with your anaesthesiologist is not only rude, it's quite dangerous.

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17 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

That was sarcasm, bramble.

 

A bit weak. You have to practice more.

 

18 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Don't be so German,

 

That was sarcasm.  Well done.

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58 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

eh...it happens more than I'd like :(

 

it's never pervy, but I always found it very awkward when someone I didn't know *at work* tried to kiss me on the cheek.  And yes it does happen.

 

the norm is you just say "hi" and keep some distance.  maybe give a little wave or something equally uncomfortable (but I'm in software, we're pretty socially uncomfortable from get go)

 

At our place we shake hands when first meeting people but after that it's 'Hi' as you describe it.

 

We do not do kissing, ever. Thankfully..
 

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9 hours ago, yourkeau said:

Am I right, Mr. President @jaycool?

 

If you want this thread to descend into absolute buffoonery, then go ahead. 

 

At least one poster has acknowledged what this topic is all about by renaming the thread appropriately. The police officer in question is a German muslim, obviously raised and educated here, who has been reprimanded for abusing the German constitution concerning equal rights for men AND women. 

 

There was a discussion some time ago about two muslim boys in Switzerland who refused to shake their teacher's hand for religious reasons and it emerged that they came from an extremely strict religiously conservative household, the father being a Syrian imam religiously educated in Saudi Arabia. His youngest daughter fled to a Frauenhaus for obvious reasons. 

 

So the attitude of the muslim police officer is a red flag as far as I am concerned. 

 

I am reminded of the Rotherham and the recent Telford scandal in Britain where rapes in the hundreds of underage girls by moslem sex gangs were covered up by the police (and apparently also the press) due to polical correctness. This is why the disciplinary action against the muslim police officer is a welcome sign that hopefully such scandals involving cover up by the police will not happen in Germany. 

 

Um, especially with Seehofer as Innenminister. :lol:

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37 minutes ago, bramble said:

So the attitude of the muslim police officer is a red flag as far as I am concerned. 

I´d say it depends on why he didn´t want to shake hands. It may not have been because of ddisrespect of women but because out of respect he didn´t want to shake hands but rather greet in a different way (like e. g. taking off his hat).

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12 hours ago, yourkeau said:

Police officer from Rhineland-Palatinate was tried for possible non loyalty to German Constitution, after he refused to shake hand with his female colleague.

 

He got 1000 euro fine and had to write a note that he respects the free and democratic order of Germany, recognizes equal rights of men and women and understands that next time he will be fired.

https://justillon.de/2018/03/polizist-darf-kollegin-den-handschlag-nicht-verweigern/

 

11 hours ago, yourkeau said:

I missed the Muslim part. That was not intentional.

 

10 minutes ago, jeba said:

I´d say it depends on why he didn´t want to shake hands. It may not have been because of ddisrespect of women but because out of respect he didn´t want to shake hands but rather greet in a different way (like e. g. taking off his hat).

 

I'm surprised Comrade Yourkeau missed the religious aspect of this case since it's in the first bleeding paragraph of his link ! 

 

Polizist darf Kollegin den Handschlag nicht verweigern

 

Quote

Weil ein muslimischer Polizist aus Rheinland-Pfalz einer Kollegin aus religiösen Gründen nicht die Hand geben wollte, wurde ein Disziplinarverfahren eingeleitet, welches nun mit einer schriftlichen Erklärung zur Verfassungstreue und einer Geldbuße endete.

 

Quote

Because a Muslim policeman from Rhineland-Palatinate did not want to shake hands with a colleague for religious reasons, a disciplinary procedure was initiated, which ended with a written statement on constitutional loyalty and a fine.

 

:wacko:

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13 hours ago, yourkeau said:

I come from non handshaking country, we have no Muslims, a Christian country. But you do not shake hand to a woman. When I do, many women react weird / refuse to shake my hand.

I was in the Ukraine many times for work. I met women in a working environment, but also private. I always shook their hands and never got funny looks. Must be the foreigner bonus 😃.

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13 hours ago, bramble said:

 

I was first going to say bollocks, but I've just done a quick google and found that your reference to not shaking hands with women in Ukraine seems to be true. 

 

http://internationalsinglesclub.com/dating-101-by-country/dating-women-in-ukraine.html

 

At least I hope you shake hands with women here in Germany. It would be considered impolite if you don't.

 

 

 

 

It's very uncommon to shake hands with women in Spain too. It's only done in very formal or business situations. Women are supposed to be kissed on both cheeks by both men and women. That applies to women who are complete strangers. 

 

Even though I am Spanish, I have been away from Spain for such a long time that I often forget about this custom and I mystify females to whom I offer them my hand. I also get startled when women I don't know throw themselves at me to kiss me on both cheeks. Then I remember that in Spain that's normal.

 

The behavior of the police officer is not just an insult to his female colleague; it's an insult to the whole of Germany. I have no understanding or tolerance for migrants who give away the contempt they feel  for the country that has hosted, embraced and given them a better life with this kind of behavior. 

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