Klein unternehmer Anlage EÜR Tax return 2017

36 posts in this topic

Hi all,

 

I have some Kleinunternehmer income for 2017 (under 17.5K, therefore I do not charge VAT). The Finanzamt is asking me to forward a digital Gewinnermilttlung as it seems the rule has changed this year and the Formlosse Gewinnermittlung is no longer accepted.

 

1- Does this mean I need to fill in the Anlage EÜR like described here by Panda Munich https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/205505-tax-return-for-non-kleinunternehmer-self-employed/?do=findComment&comment=2303003, even though I charged less than 17.5K ?

 

2- When trying to load the Einnahmenüberschussrechnung for 2017 in Elster, it only offers the one for 2016 and prior. Why is 2017 not available ?

 

3- Do I need to fill in any other form than this at all?

 

Many thanks in advance for your precious help. Feeling confused.

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35 minutes ago, annesophie said:

Hi all,

 

I have some Kleinunternehmer income for 2017 (under 17.5K, therefore I do not charge VAT). The Finanzamt is asking me to forward a digital Gewinnermilttlung as it seems the rule has changed this year and the Formlosse Gewinnermittlung is no longer accepted.

 

That's correct - it changed for the tax year 2017.

 

Quote

 

1- Does this mean I need to fill in the Anlage EÜR 

 

Yes.

 

Quote

 

2- When trying to load the Einnahmenüberschussrechnung for 2017 in Elster, it only offers the one for 2016 and prior. Why is 2017 not available ?

 

Why ever, it's not available yet. Last year (2017) it was not available until March, 21.

 

Quote

 

3- Do I need to fill in any other form than this at all?

 

We don't know about your personal circumstances ... those circumstances define the Anlagen you have to fill in in addition to the Mantelbogen. We don't even know if you are a Freiberufler (Anlage S) or Gewerbetreibende (Anlage G) ...

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, someonesdaughter said:

We don't know about your personal circumstances ... those circumstances define the Anlagen you have to fill in in addition to the Mantelbogen. We don't even know if you are a Freiberufler (Anlage S) or Gewerbetreibende (Anlage G) ...

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your response. I realise I was not very clear here. I am a Freiberufler, I already filled in Anlage S together with the other regular forms. The Finanzamt is only asking for 'eine elektronische Gewinnermittlung' so I am hoping it is only Anlage EÜR (which looks complex enough...) and nothing regarding VAT for example. (as I said above, I don't charge VAT).

 

I find strange that I was able to fill in all other forms in Elster for 2017 but the EÜR is not yet available ? Was it the same last year ? The letter also says I have until April 2n to respond... which makes strange sense if the form is not yet available. I'm wondering if the term 'elektronische Gewinnermittlung' in the letter really means Anlage EÜR. Why not writing it clearly then? Hmmm...

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1 hour ago, annesophie said:

1- Does this mean I need to fill in the Anlage EÜR like described here by Panda Munich https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/205505-tax-return-for-non-kleinunternehmer-self-employed/?do=findComment&comment=2303003, even though I charged less than 17.5K ?

 

Yes, as you can see from the notice published in the right-hand column on the "Anlage EÜR"-page on Elster.de (which at the moment only allows submitting the Anlage EÜR for 2016), the "formless profit/loss calculation on paper"(= "formlose Gewinnermittlung in Papierform") is only permitted up till the tax return 2016:

5aa03c05a5f95_2018-03-0720_21_50-ELSTER-

 

 

1 hour ago, annesophie said:

2- When trying to load the Einnahmenüberschussrechnung for 2017 in Elster, it only offers the one for 2016 and prior. Why is 2017 not available ?

 

There are two ways to submit the tax return, either by using:

In each of these versions, there are different publication dates for Anlage EÜR:

1 hour ago, annesophie said:

3- Do I need to fill in any other form than this at all?

 

If you have bought goods for your business that cost more than 487.90€ including VAT, then you have to depreciate them over their depreciation period as set down in the AfA-tables, and you also have to list them and the depreciation in Anlage AVEÜR.

 

34 minutes ago, annesophie said:

The letter also says I have until April 2n to respond... which makes strange sense if the form is not yet available.

 

Just download ElsterFormular software and submit Anlage EÜR that way:

 

5aa03ba25faaf_2018-03-0720_19_48-ElsterF

 

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4 minutes ago, annesophie said:

Thank you so much for your response. I realise I was not very clear here. I am a Freiberufler, I already filled in Anlage S together with the other regular forms. The Finanzamt is only asking for 'eine elektronische Gewinnermittlung' so I am hoping it is only Anlage EÜR

 

 

It is. 

 

4 minutes ago, annesophie said:

 

I find strange that I was able to fill in all other forms in Elster for 2017 but the EÜR is not yet available ?

 

What is your question? 

 

4 minutes ago, annesophie said:

 

Was it the same last year ?

 

Yes, that's why I wrote:

 

"Last year (2017) it was not available until March, 21."

 

4 minutes ago, annesophie said:

The letter also says I have until April 2n to respond... which makes strange sense if the form is not yet available. I'm wondering if the term 'elektronische Gewinnermittlung' in the letter really means Anlage EÜR.

 

Ye-hes. 

 

4 minutes ago, annesophie said:

Why not writing it clearly then? Hmmm...

 

Because the wording is not exclusively for small businesses and Freiberufler and there is another Gewinnermittlung called "Betriebsvermögensvergleich" too. 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

 

Yes, as you can see from the notice published in the right-hand column on the "Anlage EÜR"-page on Elster.de (which at the moment only allows submitting the Anlage EÜR for 2016), the formless profit/loss calculation on paper (= formlose Gewinnermittlung in Papierform) is only permitted up till the tax return 2016:

 

5aa038c88aa96_2018-03-0720_08_02-ELSTER-

 

 

There are two ways to submit the tax return, either by using:

In each of these versions, there are different publication dates for Anlage EÜR:

 

If you have bought goods for your business that cost more than 487.90€ including VAT, then you have to depreciate them over their depreciation period as set down in the AfA-tables, and you also have to list them and the depreciation in Anlage AVEÜR.

 

 

Just download ElsterFormular software and submit Anlage EÜR that way:

 

5aa03ba25faaf_2018-03-0720_19_48-ElsterF

 

 

 

Hi Panda Munich,

Thanks a lot for going into so much effort ! Your info is really clear.

A shame I work on Mac and don't have access to a PC... This would have been a great solution.

 

Perhaps if I fill the 2016 version in Eltern.de without sending it through, will I then be able to copy the filled in info into the 2017 form without having to retype everything ? Or will it only transfer general info but no actual amounts ?

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6 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

What is your question? 

 

 

Yes, that's why I wrote:

 

"Last year (2017) it was not available until March, 21."

 

 

Ye-hes. 

 

 

Because the wording is not exclusively for small businesses and Freiberufler and there is another Gewinnermittlung called "Betriebsvermögensvergleich" too. 

 

 

All good. I just found strange that most forms are available but others aren't. Just makes it more confusing for everyone ;)

But now I understand it may have to do with non-Windows compatibility and transforming these forms to Mac perhaps takes more time...

Thanks for your help!

 

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6 minutes ago, annesophie said:

Perhaps if I fill the 2016 version in Eltern.de without sending it through, will I then be able to copy the filled in info into the 2017 form without having to retype everything ? Or will it only transfer general info but no actual amounts ?

 

No idea about Elster.de, but in ElsterFormular it offers to transfer all the data from the 2016 Anlage EÜR to the 2017 Anlage EÜR, right on the page it starts up with, yes:

 

5aa03e7889849_2018-03-0720_31_04-ElsterF

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1 minute ago, PandaMunich said:

 

No idea about Elster.de, but in ElsterFormular it offers to transfer all the data from the 2016 Anlage EÜR to the 2017 Anlage EÜR, right on the page it starts up with, yes:

 

5aa03e7889849_2018-03-0720_31_04-ElsterF

That looks rather good. I'll give it a try on Elster.de, hopefully it works the same way. It did ask me for every other form if I wanted to transfer data from past years, which I never tested as I used to fill in paper forms until now.

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Coincidentally I'm doing me EÜR tonight. I've noticed the instructions have changed a little from last year for line 64.

 

Zeile 64 Unabhängig von der Art des benutzten Verkehrsmittels sind die Aufwendungen für die Wege zwischen Wohnung und erster Betriebsstätte und für Familienheimfahrten nur in Höhe der folgenden Pauschbeträge abziehbar (Entfernungspauschale):

 

Arbeitstage, an denen die erste Betriebsstätte aufgesucht wird x 0,30 €/ km der einfachen Entfernung zwischen Wohnung und erster Betriebsstätte. Bei Familienheimfahrten sowie bei Fahrten zu einem weiträumigen Tätigkeitsgebiet oder einem betrieblichen Sammelpunkt beträgt die Entfernungspauschale ebenfalls 0,30 € je Entfernungskilometer (Randnummer 7 des BMF-Schreibens vom 23.12.2014, BStBl 2015 I S. 26).

 

Die Entfernungspauschale gilt nicht für Flugstrecken. Die Entfernungspauschale darf höchstens 4.500 € im Kalenderjahr betragen. Ein hö­herer Betrag als 4.500 € ist anzusetzen, soweit Sie ein eigenes oder zur Nutzung überlassenes Kfz benutzen. Übersteigen die Aufwendungen für die Benutzung öffentlicher Verkehrsmittel den im Kalenderjahr insgesamt als Entfernungspauschale abziehbaren Betrag, können diese anstelle der Entfernungspauschale angesetzt werden; die Begrenzung auf 4.500 € gilt nicht. In diesem Fall sind keine Eintragungen in den Zeilen 63 und 64 vorzunehmen.

 

I'm struggling to comprehend these instructions. My understanding is I'm only permitted to enter the Entferungspauschale amount as stated in the first paragraph. Is the 3rd paragraph saying I'm permitted to enter the full amounts of my rail tickets (tram) to the office the amount is higher than the Entferungspauschale?

 

Is the last sentence saying if the expense for public transport exceeds 4,500€, you aren't permitted to enter any of it? 

 

 

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No, it doesn't - if the real cost of your public transport tickets was more than 4,500€, you get to claim for this real cost.

 

What it says is that if you use the flat rate (= Entfernungspauschale) of 0.30€ per km, the maximum permitted is 4,500€ a year, unless you use a car, in which case there's no limit. So, if for example, you used a bicycle to get to your workplace, the cost would be limited to 4,500€ a year.

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8 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

No, it doesn't - if the real cost of your public transport tickets was more than 4,500€, you get to claim for this real cost.

 

What it says is that if you use the flat rate (= Entfernungspauschale) of 0.30€ per km, the maximum permitted is 4,500€ a year, unless you use a car, in which case there's no limit. So, if for example, you used a bicycle to get to your workplace, the cost would be limited to 4,500€ a year.

Thanks for the reply. I've just read it again and now I see it. 

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Hey I'm in the same boat as annesophie - am a freelancer earning below 17k so not charging VAT, had a letter that I have to use Elster to complete EÜR for 2017. I just wanted to check whether I still need to complete the Freiberufler (Anlage S) form on paper or I just do this Elster EÜR online only? Just confused if I have to still do any paper stuff or this replaces all the usual stuff I've done before. Thanks.

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47 minutes ago, RDS said:

 I just wanted to check whether I still need to complete the Freiberufler (Anlage S) form on paper or I just do this Elster EÜR online only? Just confused if I have to still do any paper stuff or this replaces all the usual stuff I've done before. Thanks.

 

Only online.

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Hi all,

 

I have registered as Kleinunternehmer at the end of last December, filling in the form noting down a small income assumption for 2017, however I have received my first payment in 2018 (my invoice date is also 2018).

 

At the end, my income for 2017 is 0€.

 

I am registered as a freelancer (photographer). My question is,

 

1. Am I entitled to fill in the Anlage EÜR for my photography equipment spendings which was in mid-2017? 

 

2. Would it be a problem that I filled in the the part of 2017 income with some small income assumption and at the end I earned 0€?

 

Many many thanks for your help.

 

 

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1 hour ago, bea muc said:

1. Am I entitled to fill in the Anlage EÜR for my photography equipment spendings which was in mid-2017? 

 

Yes, no problem.

You should however know that any equipment that cost more than 487.90€ cannot be deducted entirely in the year you buy, but has to be depreciated over a period of years.

The number of years it has to be depreciated over is set down in the AfA-Tabelle: https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Standardartikel/Themen/Steuern/Weitere_Steuerthemen/Betriebspruefung/AfA-Tabellen/2000-12-15-afa-103.pdf;jsessionid=95FE213A239CB4AA6CDEA6598C2A2FAC?__blob=publicationFile&v=3

 

So if you bought a camera for 500€ in August 2017, you have to depreciate it over 7 years --> you only get to claim:

  • 5/12 * 800€/7 = 29.76€

as a business expense for it in your 2017 tax return

 

1 hour ago, bea muc said:

2. Would it be a problem that I filled in the the part of 2017 income with some small income assumption and at the end I earned 0€?

 

No, no problem.

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Thank you very much @PandaMunich  for your answer. 

 

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018‎ ‎19‎:‎13‎:‎44, PandaMunich said:

So if you bought a camera for 500€ in August 2017, you have to depreciate it over 7 years --> you only get to claim:

  • 5/12 * 800€/7 = 29.76€

as a business expense for it in your 2017 tax return

 

May I also ask what 5/12 factor is? 

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2 minutes ago, bea muc said:

Thank you very much @PandaMunich  for your answer. 

 

 

May I also ask what 5/12 factor is? 

 

If you buy a camera in August you only have 5 months left to depreciate it (in that year). 5 of 12 months or 5/12.

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