Exchanging an English driving licence for a German one

67 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, dstanners said:

Another update, and this time it's not so positive. After making my application back in February, and being told it will take 2/3 weeks, I've had nothing but procrastination from the authorities.

 

 

Considering your country opted to leave and are now dragging the process out as long as possible, I don't think that you can blame the locals for wanting to wait until the dust settles. 

 

I would suggest contacting SOLVIT to see if they can assist you.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

Considering your country opted to leave and are now dragging the process out as long as possible, I don't think that you can blame the locals for wanting to wait until the dust settles. 

 

I would suggest contacting SOLVIT to see if they can assist you.

 

 

 

Sorry, but while the UK remains part of the EU then this is illegal.

 

As this was applied for before the very first deadline before any extension then I think @dstanners has a right to be angry.

 

In fact, if I was you I would print out the law, take it along with you and tell them that they are in breach of said laws and that this is unacceptable and that if they don't sort this out ASAP that you will sue them!

 

 

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Whilst the authorities in the Kreisstadt wouldn't give me a copy of the internal memo, they did give me the email address of the bloke who wrote it, so rather than turn up in person, I put it in writing much along the lines that @dj_jay_smith suggested (copied below for interest - obviously in German though). I'll give SOLVIT a go too, thanks for that @engelchen. That said engelchen, whilst I understand why lots of people might be fed up with Brexit causing issues even outside of the UK, the law is what it is, and should be applied fairly to all EU citizens.

A copy of my email for info:

 

Im Februar 2019 habe ich einen Antrag gemacht, um meinen britischen Fuehrerschein gegen einen deutschen einzutauschen. Es wurde gesagt, dieser Antrag sollte 2 bis 3 Wochen dauern.

Wir haben jetzt Oktober, und mein Antrag ist immer noch nicht bearbeitet.

Ihre Kollegen beim Kreis Euskirchen haben mir eine Korrespondenz von Ihnen vorgelesen. In dieser Korrespondenz heisst es, dass Antraege wie meiner (britischer Fuehrerschein) so behandelt werden sollen, as kaemen sie von einem “dritten Land” also, ausserhalb der EU.

Obwohl “Brexit” immer noch diskutiert wird, sind britische Fuehrscheine immer noch EU Fuehrerscheine, und als sollches, sind Antraege wie meinen so zu betrachten als kaemen sie von einem Mitgliedstaat.

Ich weise hiermit auf Artikel 2, Directive 2006/126/EC: “
1.   Die von den Mitgliedstaaten ausgestellten Führerscheine werden gegenseitig anerkannt.

2.   Begründet der Inhaber eines gültigen Führerscheins mit einer von Artikel 7 Absatz 2 abweichenden Gültigkeitsdauer seinen ordentlichen Wohnsitz in einem anderen Mitgliedstaat als dem, der den Führerschein ausgestellt hat, so kann der Aufnahmemitgliedstaat nach Ablauf von zwei Jahren ab dem Tag, an dem der Führerscheininhaber seinen ordentlichen Wohnsitz im Hoheitsgebiet des Aufnahmemitgliedstaats begründet hat, die in dem genannten Artikel vorgesehene Gültigkeitsdauer auf den Führerschein anwenden, indem er den Führerschein erneuert.

 

Die Kriterien in Paragraph 2 erfuelle ich.

Noch schlimmer ist, das britische Fuehrerscheine in der Regel britischen Staatsangehoerigen gehoeren (noch EU Mitglieder). Als solches ist eine Regel gegen britische Fueherscheine eine indirekte Diskriminierung: also ein Verstoss des Artikels 21 (2) , Charta der Grundrechte der EU: “(2)   Unbeschadet besonderer Bestimmungen der Verträge ist in ihrem Anwendungsbereich jede Diskriminierung aus Gründen der Staatsangehörigkeit verboten.

Es war bestimmt nicht von Ihnen geplannt zwei solcher Verstoesse zu machen. Deshalb bitte ich Sie innerhalb von 5 Tagen, die Behoerde in Euskirchen zu kontaktieren um meinen Antrag zuegig zu bearbeiten.

Ich habe kein Interesse in einen Rechtstreit einzutreten, aber, im Gegensatz zu Grossbritannien, habe ich klar und deutlich vor noch in der EU zu bleiben (mittlerweile bin ich auch Deutscher). Daher muss dieses Problem fuer mich schnellstmoeglichst geloest werden.

Vielen Dank im Vorraus.

 

 

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A further update. My letter to the regional authorities in Cologne "seems" to have had the desired effect. I had a very polite call from the author of the internal correspondence, apologising for what he believed was a misunderstanding from the folk at my Kreisstadt. He said there was no intention to treat British licences as non-EU licences (at present) and that accordingly he would personally see that my application would be processed and that I would be able to retain the heritage classes. However, he said that I would only retain those classes for a period of 5 years, after which apparently there is a requirement in Germany for further tests (medicals etc). That sounds fine and fair to me: I wasn't asking to be treated better than someone with a German licence, but the same. In fairness to the individual from the Cologne authorities, when I called up my Kreisstadt, he had already ensured they were well aware of my application, and keen to help.

So - so far so good. The only fly in the ointment for me, is that because of the additional categories (ability to drive coaches etc), I was told to apply for a Fuehrungszeugnis, and only once that has been processed will I be given the German licence. I made the application today, but was told it could take at least three weeks to process. The cynic in me leaves a nagging doubt that this could be a cynical ploy to delay the application. I'll see in a few weeks, and will provide a further (hopefully final) update one way or another.

 

 

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So, the final update from me on this thread. This morning, I finally collected my German licence, which includes the various odd classes/sub-classes of categories C and D. The only difference is that those classes are now for a period of 5 years only, which is less than the UK entitlement. However, it is a simple trip to the doctor in five years for an eye sight and reactions test etc, for a further extension - and in fairness, if my eyes and reactions are shot, then I probably shouldn't be hairing a round the Eifel in a 7.5 tonne lorry anyway.

All good.

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1 hour ago, dstanners said:

So, the final update from me on this thread. This morning, I finally collected my German licence, which includes the various odd classes/sub-classes of categories C and D. The only difference is that those classes are now for a period of 5 years only, which is less than the UK entitlement. However, it is a simple trip to the doctor in five years for an eye sight and reactions test etc, for a further extension - and in fairness, if my eyes and reactions are shot, then I probably shouldn't be hairing a round the Eifel in a 7.5 tonne lorry anyway.

All good.

 

Weird thing.  Got German licence B BE L.  But got to retain UK licence in case want to use the C D class ones when in the UK.

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Ok wrong thread but cannot find the one asking recently about this.  Picked up DE driving licence today.  They let me keep my UK one because in the UK and Ireland I can drive classes of vehicle that I cannot do here.  I did my test in 1977 so allowed to drive bigger stuff there  than here.  

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A question to @dstanners & @snowingagain

You both speak of driving larger or heavier vehicles such as 7.5t. My UK licence also had this group and I had it from the beginning when I converted to a German one a few years ago now. However I now see that's pretty useless in itself. I can drive 7.5t but not commercially. Since I exchanged the EU came up with the money-spinning '95' clause. In order to drive any HGV (incl. 7.5t) for a job you need the 95 extension on your licence. This should be printed to the right against the relevant class(es).

It's this 95 clause which needs renewing after 5 years.

BTW, whilst the UK is still in EU this also applies there.

 

I just double-checked on gooooooogle and it seems this is called CPC in the UK. and C1 no longer exempts from this.

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@Malt-Teaser, you are correct. My entitlement to drive 7.5t and the other odd and old vehicles is restricted to non-commercial use only. Fortunately for me I am also relatively old, definitely odd and often not very commercial. Living in a national park I sometimes have a need/want to drive those various vehicles for private purposes: helping people move stuff, digging holes, shifting rocks or picking up the village JGV from a pub in the middle of nowhere.  

 

Mind you, if you are interested in (say) long distance driving commercially, then keeping your hand in by using them in a private capacity is sure to make the test easier. I've driven a 7.5t with trailer from the UK to Germany a couple of times, so I'm pretty confident I could pass a practical if it became necessary. 

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@malteaser.  My UK licence allows me to drive 7,5t non commercially in the UK.  But my German licence does not.

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Then I don't  believe you need any renewal stuff after 5 years, it'S onthe CPC which has a 5y limit, or so I believe. It's not exactly a test to get the CPC, just 35 hrs of 'training'.

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16 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

@malteaser.  My UK licence allows me to drive 7,5t non commercially in the UK.  But my German licence does not.

 

13 minutes ago, Malt-Teaser said:

@snowingagain it did as mine did, but not any longer, in the UK you also need the '95' (CPC) now.

 

So I got to keep my UK licence so I can, if fancy takes me, drive 7,5t non commercially in the UK, as my German one only goes up to 3,5t.

 

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I must have been lucky, I exchanged mine in Erding and took an internet print explaining the classes, they immediately gave me 7.5t on my German one, but that was before CPC so no 95.

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49 minutes ago, Malt-Teaser said:

I must have been lucky, I exchanged mine in Erding and took an internet print explaining the classes, they immediately gave me 7.5t on my German one, but that was before CPC so no 95.

 

I did not want the C1 on my German licence as I have no need for it, and they said I would need a doctor check up and I was in a hurry.

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Can someone verify a rumor : I heard that if you are older than a certain age(50?) and have valid B licence you can get  a motorcycle "A" without a test?

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Bump. I know this in in the Frankfurt section, but it seems to be the best thread.

 

I've been here since 1st Jan, so just over the 6 months. I haven't been driving, but did want to hire a car. Is this really bad? Would that be treated as driving without a licence? I'm guessing many British expats have been driving around for years on their UK licences...

 

A couple of questions on the procedure. I got the form for Stuttgart... first aid course, Sehtest - okay PITA. Do I really need to get a German translation of my UK drivers licence? I can't believe they'd apply that for English.

 

It says:  Mein erster Grenzübertritt in die Bundesrepublik Deutschland erfolgte am... I assume they want to know when I moved here permanently and not my very first trip over the border..

 

Thanks for any help.

 

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