How exactly is Arbeitslosengeld I calculated? Important: choose tax class 3 before becoming unemployed and stay in it!

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Dear all,

I need to find out exactly how Arbeitsamt is calculating Arbeitslosgeld 1. I recently became unemployed, and after applying for this, I was informed that I would get about 1000 euros per month. This does not sound right to me, as only my net salary was around 2000 euros (yearly brutto about 32 000 euros.year). If Arbeitslosgeld 1 is about 67% of my salary, that should result in more than 1000 euros per month. 
Any help is much appreciated. 

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47 minutes ago, Cherryalessia said:

If Arbeitslosgeld 1 is about 67% of my salary, that should result in more than 1000 euros per month. 

 

Unless you have kids its 60%.

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On 2/6/2018, 3:57:35, PandaMunich said:

1,181.40€ Arbeitslosengeld I for a gross of 2,667€ a month in tax class III, and no child.

You can calculate it yourself here: https://www.pub.arbeitsagentur.de/selbst.php?jahr=2018

Hi and thanks for this tool, it is great. My question to you regarding the tax category I need to use here, do I use the tax category that I have now or the one I had then (in the last 1 year, when I received this income)?

 

Thanks

Cherry 

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4 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

The one you had back then.

You sure about this? Arbeitsamt just calculated my amount with my current tax category. This is where the discrepancy is coming from. I will call them tomorrow. 

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We now have February 2018 and you just lost your job, didn't you?

 

So you were still working in January 2018 --> take the Steuerklasse you had on 1. January 2018.

It has to be the Steuerklasse from the start of the year in which you draw ALG I, according to §153 Absatz 2 Satz 1 SGB III:

  • (2) ¹Die Feststellung der Lohnsteuer richtet sich nach der Lohnsteuerklasse, die zu Beginn des Jahres, in dem der Anspruch entstanden ist, als Lohnsteuerabzugsmerkmal gebildet war.

Please also read this flyer: http://www.haz-net.de/pdf/infoblaetter/nr10.pdf

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9 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

We now have February 2018 and you just lost your job, didn't you?

 

So you were still working in January 2018 --> take the Steuerklasse you had on 1. January 2018.

It has to be the Steuerklasse from the start of the year in which you draw ALG I, according to §153 Absatz 2 Satz 1 SGB III:

  • (2) ¹Die Feststellung der Lohnsteuer richtet sich nach der Lohnsteuerklasse, die zu Beginn des Jahres, in dem der Anspruch entstanden ist, als Lohnsteuerabzugsmerkmal gebildet war.

Please also read this flyer: http://www.haz-net.de/pdf/infoblaetter/nr10.pdf

I lost my job in December and applied in December 2017 for ALG1. However, until the application was complete, it took about 1 month (so January 2018). In 2017 I had class 3, in 2018 I have 5. So I which class should I use for ALG? 

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1 hour ago, Cherryalessia said:

In 2017 I had class 3, in 2018 I have 5.

 

Changing tax classes with your spouse was a mistake, sorry.

If you don't do anything, you will get have to use tax class 5, since that was the tax class you had at the start of this year, and this will mean a low Arbeitslosengeld I.

 

You should have remained in tax class 3, if you had then the Arbeitsamt couldn't have said anything, even if your spouse had been the higher earner, they would have simply had to accept it. If the combination tax class 3 for you and tax class 5 for your spouse would have led to overpaying income tax, you would have simply got it back when doing the tax return, so you wouldn't have had any lasting disadvantages.

 

You now have to change tax classes as soon as possible, since only from the time after you change will you get more Arbeitslosengeld I.

When you change tax classes again, to a more advantageous combination, the Finanzamt will reject that change if it doesn't make financial sense, according to §153 Absatz 3 SGB III:

5a7d6f52b67e7_2018-02-0910_51_39-Start.p

 

Into which tax class to change now?

  • if your former salary was much higher than your spouse's, then the change back to 3 for you and 5 for your spouse is ok, i.e. the Arbeitsamt cannot object, since that reflects the real state within your family, you were the higher earner. I think (here I'm not sure) if your spouse is self-employed and has a higher income, then you are also allowed to change to tax class III, since a self-employed's income can also suddenly fall below the level of your income (hint, nudge! :D) - but ask at the Arbeitsamt to be sure, if you ask them directly they have to tell you the most advantageous solution for you, that's their Beratungspflicht.
  • if your former salary was about the same or lower than your spouse's then the best you can hope for is for both of you to change to tax class 4, either with or without a factor, since the Arbeitsamt is not allowed to reject a change to tax class 4, see here. For an explanation of tax class "4 with a factor" and a link to a calculator for tax classes, please read: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/376129-steuerklasse-4-4-vs-3-5/

So, just to be clear, your algorithm is the following:

  • if your salary was much higher than your spouse's salary (or if your spouse is self-employed) --> immediately change back to tax class III and V, by submitting the form Antrag auf Steuerklassenwechsel bei Ehegatten to your local Finanzamt.
  • else: give in your real salaries (in your case, your former salary) into the tax class calculator, to find out your optimal tax class "4 with a factor", i.e. how high your factor would be, and then do 2 calculations in the ALG I calculator:
    - once with tax class 4 with that previously calculated factor
    - once with the simple tax class 4
    and see which gives you the higher Arbeitslosengeld I, the most advantageous tax class combination for your situation, with you being unemployed. 
    Then fill in the Antrag auf Steuerklassenwechsel bei Ehegatten with that advantageous Steuerklassen combination, i.e. either:
    - mark on page 1 in line 16 "vier/vier" for the simple tax class combo 4/4, or
    - mark on page 1 in line 16 "vier/Faktor" and on page 2, section C (lines 25 to 31), fill in your spouse's salary (if he has one, leave empty if he's self-employed) and your former salary and the rest of the information that they ask for
    and immediately submit it to your local Finanzamt.

 

***************************************************************************

 

Instructions for people who will follow you:

 

If you see that you will become unemployed, immediately change tax classes with your spouse so that you get tax class III (= 3), so that your later Arbeitslosengeld I will be higher, even if your spouse's salary is much higher than yours.

Remain in tax class III until you are no longer on Arbeitslosengeld I.

 

This is the most advantageous solution, since:

  1. your ALG I will be the highest possible this way
  2. you will get back the income tax that your spouse will overpay on his salary during the year since he's in tax class V (= 5) once you do your tax return at the end of the year.
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On 2/9/2018, 11:09:42, PandaMunich said:

 

Changing tax classes with your spouse was a mistake, sorry.

If you don't do anything, you will get have to use tax class 5, since that was the tax class you had at the start of this year, and this will mean a low Arbeitslosengeld I.

 

OK, thanks for all the info. But this is where I am still confused. I registered as unemployed and got my application for ALG1 last year (like I went into the Arbeitsagentur). At the beginning of last year I had sk 3. I submitted by application for ALG1 this year because it took some time to get all the papers in, but I am entitled for ALG1 from December 2017 (so from last year).  This year I am 5, beginning of last year I was 3. So shouldn't I receive ALG1 using sk 3 and not 5?

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They look at the start of every year what your tax class is, and only pay out the Arbeitslosengeld I accordingly.

 

So best case is that you will get more money for December 2017 since you had tax class III on 1. January 2017, and from January 2018 you will get less since you unfortunately changed into tax class V starting with 1. January 2018.

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15 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

They look at the start of every year what your tax class is, and only pay out the Arbeitslosengeld I accordingly.

 

So best case is that you will get more money for December 2017 since you had tax class III on 1. January 2017, and from January 2018 you will get less since you unfortunately changed into tax class V starting with 1. January 2018.

 

Are you serious? 

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3 hours ago, Metall said:

Welcome to Germany, the land of overly strict rules I'm afraid...

The problem is that I did not know the tax category would make a difference. I mean, I thought it would be 67% of my income. I can't believe it. 

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Hi Panda. Great info there. I was unaware of this and wish I had come across this info last year. It's too late for us now, but i'd like to clarify what we should have done in our situation as info for future peoples.

 

My wife became unemployed on December 1st 2017. We earn the same amount and were therefore classes 4/4. In our case we should have:

 

Changed to 3/5 (her/me) in November: This means that her December ALG will be "less", but from January onwards would be "more". My netto will be less in the short term, but I will get everything back in the tax return later.

 

Change to 4/4 when my wife gets a new job.

 

It is too late for us to change now: they will reject a change to 3/5 once ALG has started?

 

What if someone becomes unemployed in March, therefore changed tax class in February. They become employed again in November. The tax class change didn't help as it's only the class at the start of the year which counts?

 

Weird system. You can make more money by becoming unemployed in December rather than January.

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3 hours ago, theGman said:

This means that her December ALG will be "less"

 

In that case, since she would have changed her tax class to tax class 3 before becoming unemployed, her December 2017 Arbeitslosengeld I would also have been high.

 

3 hours ago, theGman said:

My netto will be less in the short term, but I will get everything back in the tax return later.

 

Yes.

 

3 hours ago, theGman said:

It is too late for us to change now: they will reject a change to 3/5 once ALG has started?

 

They would only approve it if your tax class change would make "sense" financially assuming she had continued to be employed, i.e. if your:

  • total assumed family net income in 5/3 = net income husband on tax class 5 + net income wife on tax class 3, based on old gross salary

were more than your:

  • total assumed total family net income in 4/4 = net income husband on tax class 4 + net income wife on tax class 4, based on old gross salary

So if the best solution, change to tax class 3 for your wife, 5 for you, won't be accepted, go to the next step and check out a change to tax class "4 with a factor", i.e. whether it would mean a higher ALG I than the simple tax class 4, since they have to accept a change to tax class "4 with a factor", see the algorithm in the above post.

 

3 hours ago, theGman said:

What if someone becomes unemployed in March, therefore changed tax class in February. They become employed again in November. The tax class change didn't help as it's only the class at the start of the year which counts?

 

No, if she changed into the advantageous tax class 3 before she became unemployed they have to use that, no matter what tax class she had at the beginning of the year.

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19 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

 

In that case, since she would have changed her tax class to tax class 3 before becoming unemployed, her December 2017 Arbeitslosengeld I would also have been high.

 

Aha, then I misunderstood what you meant above about the start of the year. This makes the process a bit less strange then.

 

19 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

They would only approve it if your tax class change would make "sense" financially assuming she had continued to be employed, i.e. if your:

  • total assumed family net income in 5/3 = net income husband on tax class 5 + net income wife on tax class 3, based on old gross salary

were more than your:

  • total assumed total family net income in 4/4 = net income husband on tax class 4 + net income wife on tax class 4, based on old gross salary

So if the best solution, change to tax class 3 for your wife, 5 for you, won't be accepted, go to the next step and check out a change to tax class "4 with a factor", i.e. whether it would mean a higher ALG I than the simple tax class 4, since they have to accept a change to tax class "4 with a factor", see the algorithm in the above post.

 

As we both earned the same then I assume only 4/4 would be accepted now. Which is what we have already. I also assume that changing to "4 with a factor" would make no difference as our "factor" would be 1, as we earned the same, and therefore makes no difference to ALG.

 

Thank you Panda.

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Dear All
I am writing this email for information about arbeitslosgeld.
Following are the year where paid social security. also attached same.

I arrived in Germany 15th July 2019. I am paying social security since last 10 months. Apart from this I paid social security as and i worked in germany. which is nearly fro 57 months

My company in India is asking me to come back or they want to terminate my contract here.in this case will I be eligible for arbeitslohngeld?

 
Thanks in advance for your help
Regards
Raavi
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10 hours ago, Raavi said:

I arrived in Germany 15th July 2019. I am paying social security since last 10 months. Apart from this I paid social security as and i worked in germany. which is nearly fro 57 months

 

After reading your post 3 times, I still can't figure out when and where you paid the 57 months. It is not even clear what you paid (only pension or also unemployment insurance).

 

10 hours ago, Raavi said:

My company in India is asking me to come back or they want to terminate my contract here.in this case will I be eligible for arbeitslohngeld?

 

Are you employed and seconded to Germany? 

 

Garbage in, garbage out.

 

If you want accurate advice you need to provide clear accurate information. 

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