Why do you invest in property??

176 posts in this topic

I rent a small house as an office here ! Two dogs hang around near me all the time and enjoy it - except when I skype...they get jealous and tend to bark...The landlord died two years ago //does it make a difference? No!!! Don´t have a rent book, contract..nothing. Even before he died!! His widow doesn´t care , either..she´s illiterate and just enjoys the cash I give her every month...;)

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21 minutes ago, cybil said:

Ok, here's what you do if your renter dies:

1. call the police

2. expect the coroner to pay a visit

3. call the rental agreement toast

4. go to the funeral if you want/haven't seen or heard from friends or relatives of the deceased renter to ask if they want anything from the apartment before you

5. take any stuff you want /donate the renter's stuff to a local charity shop

6. renovate, air the place, and put that 'for rent' sign up again

 

There was a case on here a few months ago where somebody's father had died and actually the relatives / heirs, if there are any, have to give proper notice on the rental agreement and tidy up the place.  But of course if there aren't any, I suppose you can do what you want.  I did see a TV program about two women who were going into apartments / houses of deceased people to look for names of relatives / possible heirs but I didn't catch which part of the govt. they are working for.  If there's money and no heirs, I suppose it'll go to the state.

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18 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

There was a case on here a few months ago where somebody's father had died and actually the relatives / heirs, if there are any, have to give proper notice on the rental agreement and tidy up the place.  But of course if there aren't any, I suppose you can do what you want.  I did see a TV program about two women who were going into apartments / houses of deceased people to look for names of relatives / possible heirs but I didn't catch which part of the govt. they are working for.  If there's money and no heirs, I suppose it'll go to the state.

Leon, I know what you mean! The service here is called Entrümpler, and you have to pay them to come clear out/clean up the place. I found a service like this in the Köln area, they seem to also help 'Messies', you know, those renters (or just anyone among us) who accumulate a lot of stuff to the point of the mess is getting out of control. 

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58 minutes ago, cybil said:

Ok, here's what you do if your renter dies:

1. call the police

2. expect the coroner to pay a visit

3. call the rental agreement toast

4. go to the funeral if you want/haven't seen or heard from friends or relatives of the deceased renter to ask if they want anything from the apartment before you

5. take any stuff you want /donate the renter's stuff to a local charity shop

6. renovate, air the place, and put that 'for rent' sign up again

 

Awesome! Thanks for the info. 

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33 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

There was a case on here a few months ago where somebody's father had died and actually the relatives / heirs, if there are any, have to give proper notice on the rental agreement and tidy up the place.  But of course if there aren't any, I suppose you can do what you want.  I did see a TV program about two women who were going into apartments / houses of deceased people to look for names of relatives / possible heirs but I didn't catch which part of the govt. they are working for.  If there's money and no heirs, I suppose it'll go to the state.

 

Reminds me of the UK show Heir  Hunters, oddly never seen a US version 

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11 minutes ago, cybil said:

Leon, I know what you mean! The service here is called Entrümpler, and you have to pay them to come clear out/clean up the place. I found a service like this in the Köln area, they seem to also help 'Messies', you know, those renters (or just anyone among us) who accumulate a lot of stuff to the point of the mess is getting out of control. 

 

No, they were definitely not entrümpler.  Those you can find ads for in the paper and they come and clean out everything and you pay them.  These people were just going inside looking for papers, photos, postcards and other mail trying to find lost relatives.

 

According to this article: http://www.mietrecht.org/kuendigung/wohnungsmieter-verstorben-kein-erbe/ the landlord can not go into the apartment or clean it out after the tenant dies.  He has to consult the heirs.  If there are no heirs, the state is the heir.  You can also protect yourself by having made some agreement with the tenant about what should happen in the event of his death.  Some rental contracts have a clause about the contract ending with the tenants death.  This is not automatic.  Otherwise, the heirs would have to give notice.

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Good to know this about the contract having that clause in case of death. I'm going to look into the contracts my MIL has here with the renters and see if they have that clause at all. Now I'm curious! MIL is Ü80 and not in good health herself, needs a lot of assistance, the rentals are part of the things she's not on top of any more. 

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13 minutes ago, cybil said:

Good to know this about the contract having that clause in case of death. I'm going to look into the contracts my MIL has here with the renters and see if they have that clause at all. Now I'm curious! MIL is Ü80 and not in good health herself, needs a lot of assistance, the rentals are part of the things she's not on top of any more. 

 

I had a landlady who was over 80 and eventually her daughter took over dealing with the rental issues.  I don't know if she had a power of attorney but I don't think anyone questioned her authority.

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A minor adjustment-

 

1. Call the police. They will find the family as it was in our case when my BIL died.

 

5. There are a whole lot of steps before anyone can remove anything from the flat and, of course, family comes first.

 

The only problem I see is if there is no family/heirs. That could get a bit difficult but it happens all the time and the authorities know what to do.

 

Don't be an arse and make the family give a 3 month notice and pay 3 more months rent. That's what my BIL's landlord did. It is legal but I believe can be waived.

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36 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Don't be an arse and make the family give a 3 month notice and pay 3 more months rent. That's what my BIL's landlord did. It is legal but I believe can be waived.

 

Notice can always be waived if both parties agree but the landlord can't decide to cut the notice short on his own either.  In some cases, the family may want more time to clean out the apartment and may want the 3 months.

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8 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

Notice can always be waived if both parties agree but the landlord can't decide to cut the notice short on his own either.  In some cases, the family may want more time to clean out the apartment and may want the 3 months.

 

Agreed.

 

In our case, besides grieving, it ruined our whole summer.

 

(We got what we wanted then hired a company to come take the rest. They sold some of it and our share paid them.)

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 a non-EU citizen with a permanent residence permit here. I am thinking about buy property here as an investment. But, in case my career(salaried employee at a MNC) takes me out of the EU, the permanent residence permit will expire after 12months. What will happen to the property ownership? It can be confiscated because the owner lost his residential rights?

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nope.

 

eta: but you should ensure that if you leave the place empty you don't run afoul of any local laws that prohibit "misuse" of residential property.  For example, in Munich and I think Berlin, at least, it's illegal to leave a potentially habitable apartment sit empty or lease it for some use other than residential space.  

 

It would be difficult, for example, to claim the place was empty as it's your second home, if you don't have free access to stay there due to your loss of residency.  If you are free to visit without a visa under schengen rules you might be able to get away with it, but not sure how they enforce these laws.

 

still, I don't think they can confiscate your property on that basis.  Maybe someone else knows more about potential consequences.

 

if you don't pay your mortgage, you will most certainly lose the place.  I had a neighbor whose place was foreclosed over a mere 1200 euros in back payments.  He obviously didn't handle the problem well, but the point is you run a huge risk by falling behind even by a small amount.

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10 hours ago, funami said:

the permanent residence permit will expire after 12months.

According to what I read you can apply for keeping your residence permit even though you´ll be out of the country for more than 1 year.

 

10 hours ago, funami said:

What will happen to the property ownership? It can be confiscated because the owner lost his residential rights?

Nothing will happen. There is no requirement to reside in Germany in order to be allowed to own property.

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I don't think anyone's mentioned REITs yet, which are a good way to get exposure to the real estate market without having to put too much work into it (being a landlord) or tying up too much of their capital in one major investment.  REIT stands for Real Estate Investment Trust, they are investment funds which own shares in property management companies, who themselves own properties.  REITs are required to pay out a majority of their profits to their shareholders as dividends, which often alone will beat ROI on a unit you personally own and rent out.  You can buy these funds on a number of different online platforms, tax implications are relatively easy.

 

I did the math just like the OP did, and like them couldn't make the numbers work.  REITs are a good alternative.

 

Also, 'Retirement' as professed by early retirement gurus like MrMoneyMustache means simply having enough passive income derived from your investment portfolio that you can support yourself with it indefinitely without having to work.  If you choose to work after that point, that's your deal, but getting to the point where you don't need to must be incredibly freeing.  I'm shooting for it myself by around age 55.

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Just read a great lump of this thread and was wondering what makes people ask if someone's book is available when the writer has spent the greater part of the thread confused about what different German property-related terms mean, and needs rescued by the all-knowing Panda....

 

Now her book I would buy in an instant. Pretty much regardless of topic.

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