Bought fake item on eBay - seller won't refund

32 posts in this topic

Hi, All.

First, I did search the forums for ~20mins non-stop but did not find anything.

 

I have recently bought two LEGO Star Wars sets on eBay from the same private seller in Germany(!), which turned out to be fake (paid ~65EUR in total ).

The seller used LEGO brand name and official set numbers in the title, however used the word "Nachbau" (which has more than one meaning) in the description.

If one searches eBay for "Lego Nachbau" - there will be mostly replicas (from original Lego parts) of retired sets, which, to me, is perfectly OK - it's a construction toy after all.

[To those of you wondering why bother building replicas of retired set, here's an example of a sold(!) official retired set https://www.ebay.de/itm/282759070642 , and that is not the limit]

These, however,are chinese fakes ("Star Wnrs" on the manual, etc). Of course, there was nothing in pictures to indicate the fake - for instance, the seller did not show the pics of the manuals.

 

I did have experience receiving fake Lego before, but most sellers simply asked for the pics and then returned the money w/o questions. I suspect many of them did not know their stuff was fake - it's quite hard to tell sometimes. This guy, however, admitted that he knew it was a fake, and does not want to issue a refund, since "I should have figured it out, as others did". Mind you, one of the sets sold at average price --> there was at least one other person who did not figure out the fake.

 

I reported the item on eBay and rang them. eBay said "No PayPal = your problem".

 

My understanding is that once the trademark is used in the offer, I have the right to original goods, he committed a law violation, and a court case has 99.9% chance of success.

I would, however, first rather write a proper email on that guy with a few links to law paragraphs and case studies to have him get his stuff back and return my money. I accept the loss of time as a learning experience for myself (educational journey into German Kauferschutz)

I did search for 2 days and could not find anything besides the hollow newspaper articles that do not reference any sources, or the lawyer webpage stubs.

 

If someone had been through a similar experience or knows where to look - could you please drop me a few lines with key words to search after, law paragraphs, cases etc?

Alternatively, if any of the resident lawyers wants to drop the hammer - I have little pity for the guy... 

 

Many thanks!

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Legos imo were a once great building block but has become one of the biggest ripoffs ever. 

Selling little plastic blocks for so much money is one of the great marketing efforts ever. Legos were a lot cheaper when the kid's imagination was involved and not paying out a ton of money for building someone elses ideas.

If the guy said Nachbau you might just be out of luck in court unless he said it was "actually" built from genuine Lego brand Legos. I'm pretty sure Caveat Emptor is a principle in German law.

 

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Chalk this one up as "lesson learned" and move on. In the 20 minutes you spent searching for similar topics you must have discovered a fair few eBay lessons learned topics. If I have to read another TT poster listing the do's and don't's of buying on eBay I'll poke out my eyes.

 

You know what I'd think if I got an angry letter with a bunch of lawyer paragraphs from somebody I had intentionally ripped off on eBay? I'd think, jackpot, another sucker who's too cheap to hire an actual lawyer!

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Solution is quite simple: stop using Ebay!

Ebay kleinanzeigen works. The main Ebay is dying because they don't give a shit about anyone for the past 6 years!

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You probably spent a couple of hours finding the cheapest of the cheapest price in the whole Internetzzz. I used to do that like 10 years ago, it is not worth anymore. Just order from any shop with a good reputation and call it a day. I know Amazon is becoming a monopoly, but it is pretty hard not to buy from them when they take back your problematic items no questions asked.

Sorry I do not provide what you are realy expecting, I totally understand you, you feel you were fooled but at the end you made a mistake, not sure if because your German is not good enough of because you oversaw it was an copy. Take it as a lesson and move on. I know you want to stick it to the seller, but it will be more expensive and it will bring more frustration.

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18 minutes ago, Krieg said:

I know Amazon is becoming a monopoly, but it is pretty hard not to buy from them when they take back your problematic items no questions asked.

Amazon has a fantastic service, especially on returns.

It will be the warehouse of the world and being a monopoly it is not a good thing, but they are providing a super service at the moment.

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On 17/12/2017, 01:55:37, Dunkle Schokolade said:

You guys are such whiners. Boohoo.

 

On 17/12/2017, 01:58:06, Dunkle Schokolade said:

If anyone cares that your toys are not original then they realy need things to care about.

Ha Ha someones taking advantage of the fact the red button is now toast Ha Ha

 

no greenies for you buddy 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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keep trying. my son was told no paypal, no protection. however he could prove that he paid and eventually ebay gave in and refunded. this was for an item not sent

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Hello everyone,

I did not start a new threat and hopefully, someone will see this post.

My problem is similar but for a different product.

 

I bought a canon camera from eBay as a brand new camera.

The camera is brand new and everything works well but the problem is that the serial number on the box of the camera was intentionally removed!!

I wanted to check the serial number on the camera body with the box and found that the serial number is removed!

I contacted the seller and I am still waiting for a reply.

The headquarter of the company which I bout this camera from is in Singapore but the camera is shipped from a warehouse in Germany.

 

Why did they remove the serial number from the box if the camera is brand new? Usually, this may happen when a product is fake or it is stolen but these are not  the case with this camera!!

 

Do you have any idea?

 

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If you got a really good deal, it may be B-ware. That means it's all original stuff, but the packaging may be replacement packaging if, for example, the first buyer returned it because it was defective and the factory had to refurbish it. So, the first question is, did the add say b-ware or did it say new, unused item?

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If you want to check the serial number of the camera internally then it should be recorded when a photo is taken in the EXIF details.  

This explains some methods to read this.  Although a lot of programs can read the EXIF details most don't show the serial number;

 

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/67926/how-can-i-find-the-the-serial-number-of-a-canon-eos-dslr-when-the-stamp-on-the-c

 

Then you can check this against the sticker on the camera (It is not clear from your post, but it sounds like you still have the serial number on the camera but not the box).  And maybe you want to check this with Canon to verify that it is a genuine number.

 

Out of interest:  which camera did you purchase?

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1 hour ago, dj_jay_smith said:

If you want to check the serial number of the camera internally then it should be recorded when a photo is taken in the EXIF details.  

This explains some methods to read this.  Although a lot of programs can read the EXIF details most don't show the serial number;

 

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/67926/how-can-i-find-the-the-serial-number-of-a-canon-eos-dslr-when-the-stamp-on-the-c

 

Then you can check this against the sticker on the camera (It is not clear from your post, but it sounds like you still have the serial number on the camera but not the box).  And maybe you want to check this with Canon to verify that it is a genuine number.

 

Out of interest:  which camera did you purchase?

 

The camera is a 77d canon. The seller has tons of positive review. https://bit.ly/2Oj8xeZ

 

I checked the serial number taken from the photo with the one on the bottom of the camera and they are the same. So that is OK.

But why the removed the box of the camera? I guess the camera is refurbished, but I bought it as a brand new.

I have already bout a Fuji camera from eBay with a much better price than the one on Amazon but everything was perfect. The serial number of the lens and body matched exactly with the ones on the box. But this one is weird.

 

If the serial number on the camera does not match with the one on the box (which in my case does not exist at all), then, if I decide to sell the camera it may be assumed as a stollen camera!!

 

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The box is and is not important.

 

First, how many people hang on to the box from something they buy?  A week or so?  If I buy something packaged in a box, once I know all is okay with the item, the box gets tossed in the rubbish. 

 

Secondly, as I looked at the photo of the Ebay auction.  It does state 'neu'.  Was the packaged containing the camera sealed and unopened?  This is the most important factor.  Ebay's rules state that for an item (in some type of packaging) to be listed as new, it must be sealed and unopened.  If this is not the case, then you have a legitimate complaint.


It would seem strange that someone removed the serial number from the outside of the package.

Again, in the long term, does it really matter?  How important is a box?  It's merely odd.

Lastly,

Quote

The seller has tons of positive review.


This seller does not have tons of positive reviews.  Did you look closely at the feedback?  In the past 12 months, 43 negative remarks and 60 neutral.  In the past month, 8 and 11 respectively.  I read some of the negative and neutral comments. I would have avoided this seller altogether.

 

I have been with Ebay since May 1999.  One must read everything on each auction.  Everything!

 

Look (at the top):

 

Quote
KOSTENLOS Expressversand | Weitere Details
Artikelstandort:
Hannover, Deutschland
Versand nach:

 

Versus (at the bottom):

 

Quote

Rechtliche Informationen des Verkäufers

Online buy and sell pte ltd
ChunWai Wan
151 Chin Swee road, #07-12 manhattan house,
169876 Singapore, MN
SG

 

I would guess they bought the camera from someone else at a low price, turned it around and sold it to you.

 

If your Camera works be happy.  You could check with Canon to make sure all is in order with the one you purchased.  Make sure it wasn't stolen or is a knock-off.  Register the item on their website.

 

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Some camera manufacturers offer cashback on selected models and sometimes they request that you cut out the serial number from the box and send it to them along with proof of purchase.

This is to stop people buying a camera, claiming the cashback and then returning it to the shop.

I'd bet the camera you bought has already been used for a cashback claim, maybe even by the seller.

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I would suggest that this likely to be a grey import.  Especially as the seller is based in Singapore, a market well know for this practice.

Grey imports are when the article is supposed to be sold in one market (which is cheaper) but instead gets imported to another market where it can be sold at a higher price.  Canon, and other manufacturers, don't like this of course but it is difficult to stop.  Sometimes they will refuse to honour warranties under these conditions but normally Canon offer a worldwide warranty and if you push them it will often be OK within the EU.  Especially if you can prove that you purchased it in Germany (which you did and can)

 

Still strange that the serial number is missing from the box however.

 

I agree with what @BayrischDude says, but of course if you sell it as 2nd hand later then one in "original packaging" are preferred, but it won't make much difference.

 

@Eric7 beat me to the answer about the cashback, which canon do often. 

 

 

PS.  I have the 80D

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12 hours ago, BayrischDude said:

Secondly, as I looked at the photo of the Ebay auction.  It does state 'neu'.  Was the packaged containing the camera sealed and unopened?  This is the most important factor.  Ebay's rules state that for an item (in some type of packaging) to be listed as new, it must be sealed and unopened.  If this is not the case, then you have a legitimate complaint.

 

 

The package was open but the camera and lens and other tools all seem to be brand new. I could not find and any scratch on the camera or other stuff or even on the battery terminals.

I am not sure if I can complain because of an opened package. in AGB they stated that the box might be opened for further quality control which to me is complete nonsense. To me, everything would be fine as long as the serial number on the camera and the one on the package match.

 

Another weird thing is that they did not send me an invoice for this purchase and they stated in AGB that if you ask for one, we will issue you one but that simply says how much money you paid (Wir können eine Rechnung anbieten, aber das zeigt nur den Betrag an, den Sie bezahlt haben.).

I did not understand what they mean.

 

I contacted the seller but I have not received any answer yet. I will post here if I get any updates on this issue.

I have also attached a photo from the package and how the serial number was removed.

 

12 hours ago, BayrischDude said:

If your Camera works be happy.  You could check with Canon to make sure all is in order with the one you purchased.  Make sure it wasn't stolen or is a knock-off.  Register the item on their website.

 

If I register the camera, then I may not be allowed to return it, or I am wrong?

 

 

canonPackage_noSerialNumber_.jpg

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