Getting back my Kaution

20 posts in this topic

Hi all,

I rented an apartment through an agency (called Home Company), but I paid the Kaution and the rent directly to the landlord.

When the contract ended I was supposed to meet with the agency to give them back the keys but we couldn't find a time that will be good for both so they asked me to give the keys directly to the new tenant (I know him). When they met with him, he told me that they said I left the apartment dirty or whatever and that I should have taken their cleaning company. In my opinion the apartment was perfectly clean, though it's true I didn't take any professional cleaning service.

 

Anyway, they didn't say anything about it to me - only directly to him.

Now I'm afraid that when I ask for my Kaution back they will "remember" and tell me that they will first deduct money for cleaning services from it.

As it is the new tenant is already there for 3 months now and I still didn't ask for my money back.

 

If I ask for it now, can they still use my money for cleaning? (I mean, obviously the apartment is not in the shape it was now as what it was when I gave the keys back, they can't prove how it was then - I know they didn't take any pictures or anything).

If I wait for 3 more months, I think they are obligated by law to pay me the money back, can they still deduct anything from it then?

 

Thanks!

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They can't charge you for pro cleaning if they didn't have it done. Too late now since the new renter accepted it as is. If they didn't even have time to give him the key, I doubt they went around and inspected it.

 

Ask for your money back. It's yours if nothing was damaged and they are already getting rent again. They lost nothing.

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they have not right just to charge you for nothing

if they provide bills that they used cleaning service than yes they can and will deduct from your caution,

the hope that German landlords will forget something like this makes no sense, even more, most of the landlords will find any reasons they can to charge you as much as they can

just ask your kaution back 

 

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Thank you both for your answers!

 

I know for a fact they didn't clean it so they won't have any bills to show.

I'm only worried that they'll remember it now that I ask for the deposit back and will now use services of some cleaning company, even though the tenant that moved instead of me already lives there for a few months (so who can prove how the apartment looked like when I left? they didn't take any pictures or anything).

 

Anyway, I'll ask for it now, let's see what happens. Hope I won't have any issues.

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Hello all,

 

there are many threads on "getting the Mietkaution back" and I'm just resuscitating one of them...

 

We rented a Haus for 6.5yr before moving out ca 2months ago. The Besitzerin, accidental landlord, is a supernice person and we have always had the best relationship and we both want to keep it this way. Just saying: they even invited us to their wedding, where ca 30 people were there.

ca 2months before we moved out we had the Vorabnahme, with Inspektion, with the owner (well, her husband), and a Maklerin. It was stated we should do this and that, but a follow up inspektion was going to be necessary.

Once we moved out, we had the Endabnahme, with 2nd and "final" Inspektion again with owner and Maklerin. It was confirmed we did most of the repairs, and very few very minor more repairs were still necessary. After we did these we had a rapid check with  the husband, he said all ok, and that was that.

 

6 weeks later I ask the owner, our friend, for money back. She invited us again to the house, and she showed us some faults. I know A) some of these faults were real and were our responsibilities, but once at the Endabhname Inspektion no party mentioned them (yes, we have official Maklerin document, signed by all), I concluded it was ok as it was...

B ) Some other points, for which we are asked to pay, were details that both the owner, and the agent, said at the Endabhname were ok as they were. So at the final check owner and agent say "the garden is ok". And 6 weeks later the owner says "we had to pay a gardener 650eur, you did an okish job but still it was not possible to rent it as you left it, a profi gardener can do much better...".

 

So 6 weeks after the final inspection, once she showed us around again, we verbally offered to pay a one off xyz sum. Nothing in writing. But with second thoughts, I feel this is unfair. I feel bad that she first says "the garden is ok", hand me the document, and 6 weeks later says "actually the garden was not ok, we had to pay a profi"...

 

I still think she is not a "money person". But equally, I feel her requests are not entirely justified. 

What's the strategy to achieve a compromise between 1) staying friends, without fighting, without lawyer, and 2) getting back the money we think is fair

 

 

Thanks,

Alberto

 

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I don't think you can do much more than simply describe to her what you have described here, as calmly as possible.  

 

You are essentially correct, that once they signed off on the condition of the apartment during the handover, they lost the right to keep any of your kaution, legally.  It is also troubling that "a profi can do much better" was used as an argument if you were not notified there was anything wrong with what you did in the first place, meaning you may have done just as good a job as the profi at no cost to yourself, had you been given the opportunity to do so.  Of course you should be able to anticipate, yourself, whether you left some things undone and be honest about that - rule of thumb is always "did you leave the place in the same condition that you received it, barring normal wear and tear"?

 

but you have to anticipate that this may not be something she is willing to hear and you may have to make a choice between the friendship and ending up with a deal you feel is fair.  Ergo the cliche to never mix business with pleasure.

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would sugar coating it help? :)

 

seriously I'm not trying to be brutal, just realistic.  What you describe is a classic problem when money and friendship intersects.  It's often not pretty :(

 

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3 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

What you describe is a classic problem when money and friendship intersects.  It's often not pretty :(

Spot on!

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How big was the garden and what did the profi actually do? Have you seen the bill? 

 

Landlords have to take on some costs of keeping up their property. Good grief.

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yeah a lot of it depends on what was done.  Normal maintenance and cleanup is a tenant's responsibility (unless otherwise agreed in the contract) but for example tree trimming goes a bit beyond normal maintenance that would fall on a tenant.  And anyway the "profis do a better job" is just a bullshit argument unless that job requires specialized skills and equipment or similar.  Gardening is not rocket science.

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Just adding some facts:

 

*) The Toiletbrille was yellow. "it could not be cleaned", and "one cannot let a house with this". In fact: 1) it was not dirty, it must have become yellow from ageing, who is responsible for that? and 2) if it is/were true one cannot let the house with the yellowed Toiletbrille, how come the Maklerin never mentioned it?

 

*) they asked me to get rid of a tree that meanwhile grew in the small patch between "us" and neighbour. I did it. At the Endabnahme they were very happy, and a bit surprised that I did manage to do it. But I did not remove the root. I guess I could have done it had they mentioned it. And 6 weeks after the Endabnahme they proudly showed me the gardener removed the root.

 

*) The Auffahrt was "dirty", in fact normal usage, although they agreed we had removed all the weeds. They first said it was my duty to clean it. Then the husband, out of his own good will, turned up out of the blue and did the work himself. No charging us. This shows they are not just bent trying to squeeze cash out of us... they are decent people. This simply adds complexity...:wacko:

 

*) The garden "fence" had an arch when we moved in. During our 6.5yr this grew and it became kind of a tree, no resembling an arch any more. The Maklerin said a profi was need it to restore it as an arch. The profi came, and instead he cut it to the level of the rest of the fence. I could have done this myself. They also stated it should have been done it much earlier, as meanwhile the roots grew and they risk damaging the Auffahrt. Thanks a lot, but if so why had they never mentiond it, they visited the property regularly...

 

*) The gardener also removed the Komposter at the back garden "it could well be that the next tenant will not want it". True, it could be. But then why mentioning this only 6 weeks after the Endabnahme? I could have removed it myself...

 

*) We caused some minor damages in the house. Most of them my fault. :( I honestly don't know whether these qualify under "normal usage, the tenant should not bear any extra cost" or not. In any case these were first mentioned only 6 weeks after the Endabnahme. Even tough at the Endabnahme the house was completely empty and everything was very visible...

 

*) The shower was originally badly built. Lazy or naugthy construction company. For many years there was a small leak: water slowly entered a wall and gradually damaged it. Eventually I spotted it and told them. They dismissed it, "it's nothing". I insisted, and months later they took actions. They ended up paying 6000 eur. We were 2 months without shower but no problems. No complaining. Everything amicable. Had I not told them with insistence, the damage would have grown and they would have lost even much more. Dunno if I could in principle use this as leverage, I'd rather not to... 

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I'm not sure what are asking at this point. If you want help navigating the legal aspects of which costs can rightfully be passed on to you, please join the mieterverein. They can review your contract and also help you write a letter regarding the kaution refund you're entitled to.

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On 12/11/2019, 9:39:11, Gambatte said:

 

B ) Some other points, for which we are asked to pay, were details that both the owner, and the agent, said at the Endabhname were ok as they were. So at the final check owner and agent say "the garden is ok". And 6 weeks later the owner says "we had to pay a gardener 650eur, you did an okish job but still it was not possible to rent it as you left it, a profi gardener can do much better...".

 

So 6 weeks after the final inspection, once she showed us around again, we verbally offered to pay a one off xyz sum. Nothing in writing. But with second thoughts, I feel this is unfair. I feel bad that she first says "the garden is ok", hand me the document, and 6 weeks later says "actually the garden was not ok, we had to pay a profi"...

 

Ooooh nice, she prettied up the garden at your expense. How convenient! 

 

As @fraufruit mentioned, landlords do bear responsibility for improving/beautifying property at least once every X years. I'm not sure where gardening costs fall, but stump removal is often a specialist job in the first place.

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Basically, if you have the Übernahmeprotokoll she has to give you your money back. I find it weird that she is coming out with these requests now. 

Garden - removing tree and shaping hedges: afaik not your problem as a tenant. If they want to change stuff around that is there problem. 

Ditto the toilet seat. Also a 15 € item so am scratching my head at the request 

Tree roots: not your problem 

moving compost: not your problem. Next next tenant might have liked it there. 

 

It really depends on how much you value the friendship. Do you think there is someone pushing them to make these requests? As in: Your tenants should have done this and you don't have to pay for that… 

If you really care (and depending on what kind of people they are, you could sit down with them and go through everything suggesting that they are being a bit unreasonable. If they don't get it, you can still point out the legalities of the situation. 

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@RahashHow did you end finally solving this? I feel this is the problem with HomeCompany all the time.  They use the same excuses to not give back kaution. :) 

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Hello

 

I have a similar issue, I have the übernahmenprotokoll signed and at the moment of signing, there was information that 20% of Kaution would be kept as a security for the betreibskosten of 2020 (as the calculation will come just later this year)

 

Now after the 6weeks waiting period that I was informed it could take, I requested an update and got information back that they will keep 100% of Kaution as a safety deposit due to previous history of high betriebskosten

 

Is this legal?

Remark: Betriebskosten were high, however we paid always on time, what is their reasoning for keeping a safety deposit ?

 

 

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I've written about this before. My old landlord kept my deposit for almost a year. I badgered them after 6 months and got about half of it back and then just after 1 year I got the full amount back. They accidentally paid me 50% more. Result.

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I have registered in local Mietverein, I just would like to get a direction of what can they and what can't they do.

The kaution is around 50% higher than last Nebenkosten so I do not see a reason for them to keep 100% of it.  But I do not want to start complaining if there is some law on their side.

 

I will post updates if the Mietverein supports this

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Hello Together,

 

I also have problems in getting back my kaution money. In my case, I rented the apartment in 2017 and paid the kaution amount in two installament (transactions). Now, I handed over the apartment in January 2021, everything was alright with the apartment. But now the landlord doesnot find one of my installment transaction in there bank statements. I already gave them the proof(my bank statements) of both the transactions, but still they donot come to terms and accept it. I would need some guidance and also if possible some leads of how to move further here?

 

I would appreciate any guidance and tip.

Thank you in advance. 

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