Nightmare Tenants, Insurance, The law

41 posts in this topic

we own 2 houses. One large that we rented out once the kids had left, the other smaller that we live in.

Sadly our tenants turned out to be pretty awful and from the start we had to chase out rent until after 6 months they stopped paying, were evicted and then given a reprieve under german law in 2015. The condition was they paid the rent on time, which they did until march this year.

However they paid nothing else. had work done in the house, sent us the bill and did not even consult us. In February they failed to pay a 3rd water bill and we started the process of asking them to leave.

their main issue was that the house was top to bottom wet and it was making their son seriously ill. they also stated that it was their house, their land and that fingers up to us if we came on their land again. they claimed that their solicitor had said we had no right to see proof of problems or had any right to go into the house, nor any workmen.

Finally we got them out and a court appointed person went in to assess damage which totalled €26.000. We were insured.

That was the real start of the problems

The tenants refused to answer to any of our claims, ignored solicitors letters etc

we are not allowed to rent or sell while legal action is ongoing but we have started making repairs. 

hold onto your stomaches, fleas, mites, cockroaches, dog poop, cat wee, toilets full of human faeces to above the water line and left. plug holes blocked full of something black and slimy. holes knocked through walls to allow cables to pass. every wall full of 6" screws, nails, hooks. at least 50 in every wall.

we started gutting the place , cleaning and painting.

to do this we have been selling everything we can. we also have to find €1.000 extra every month to pay the other mortgage, insurances etc.

 

The legal side was just about to finish , allowing us to be paid by the insurance so we could finish repairs and sell and get on with out lives, when the tenants decided to come up with some story and try and sue us. Now though it was bigger and better than before. they claimed we forced them to live there for 2 1/2 years, forgetting that after they got evicted in 2015, they paid €1.400 in back rent to continue living there.

The legal side is now more involved, our savings gone, we have nothing more to sell apart from our car.

Plus it is too big for us and I have just been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and hashimotos disease to go along with my heart problems. My GP feels stress is major factor.

I want a schimmel gutachter to make a report if the tenants are still claiming the house was full of mold. We have nothing to hide or fear from this. we know the house was dry, clean and in good condition when we rented.

 

 

 On top of all this we are followed, harassed, people have been told their son nearly died because of our actions. we have had a visit of a bailiff who is chasing them and 2 of 13 inkassos got hold of me thinking we were them. I have even had a slap across the face from their supporter demanding money and threatening to harm my son. ( yes police know)

 

i know its part of my illness but most of the time I just want to go to sleep and never wake up.

Surely we can not lose everything while these people swan around slandering our name and harassing us. This started out as just an insurance claim !

 

 

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hi fraufruit. we have given our solicitor power of attorney and he has handed the case over to a partner. we have made an appointment and asked that we are told exactly what the hold up is now. to be honest most people see the whole thing as laughable because these ex tenants are just so off this planet. however they have got a solicitor who is believing them and trust me the story is worthy of an Oscar. They go to peoples houses and tell them the tale of woe for support.

I don´t think our solicitor realises how near the line we are. He just says wait. he knows all will be okay in the end but we could lose everything before that day comes

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@ Jakurrpa, it sounds to me like you might also have a problem with depression, since you say that you want to go to sleep and never wake up - have you told your doctor this? If not, then it is high-time you did!

 

There is also an opposite to the Mietverein, for landlords - are you a member? It might be interesting to hear what they have to say about your case.

 

 

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I know this sounds terrible but that is a fascinating case study of how a professional tenant can totally ruin somebody. It inspired me to write a blog post about it. I don't know why but the font is really really small.

 

While this is in the hands of a lawyer there are several things you can do which, if not help, at least remove the feeling of helplessness. Normally I'd say to declare war and never give an inch to scum like this. But in your case it's more about keeping our sanity and trying to bring an end to this nightmare. 

 

The first thing is how good is your German? You mentioned about them having supporters are they gypies or travellers as they're known in the UK. The problem is people like that and their leftie supporters like to present hard working people like yourself as the enemy. They're very experienced in manipulating people. In Canada Trudeau ran and won on a platform of taxing the rich and income redistribution.  In a rare win for the middle class he was forced to back off when it was discovered his finance minister forget to put his multimillion Euro French Chalet into a blind trust, opps. But I digress. 

 

Second point is have  you relied completely on your lawyer or have you been doing your own research. I know people catch flax for asking questions without first visiting seeing a lawyer or visiting the Meitverien but I've seen too many times where the lawyer or accountant made a mistake or more commonly didn't, for what ever reason, give the best advice for the situation.  Supplementing professional with your own research. 

 

Finally and sadly, is there a way you can settle with them? You made it quite clear that these people are professional cheats who know the system inside and out and probably better then your lawyer. Maybe with a bit of luck at the beginning you might have been able to avoid this but now it's about damage control.

 

good luck and please keep us updated

 

 

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Landlords can take (obviously before something happens) a special insurance to cover for some of the issues mentioned above. It is called a "Mietnomaden-Versicherung" in coloquial"Mietausfall-Versicherung" in real. Last I checked there were only two insurance companies on the market, R&V and RHION. (Ideally one would also have the building insurance with them). They won't cover the legal battle (which a good legal insurance for landlords would) but a lot of damages done to your property and some of the loss of rental income etc.  Won't help the OP, I am afraid - but I am posting this here for all other landlords in Germany among the Expat community as an info that there is some insurance coverage available.  Cheerio

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Not to hijack this thread but ...

there is another thread on the financial pros and cons of the never ending debate on property buying vs renting vs letting. This kind of things reminds us that there is a lot that cannot go onto an Excel spreadsheet, no matter how realistic the bare mathematical model and its parameters ... 

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1 hour ago, Starshollow said:

They won't cover the legal battle (which a good legal insurance for landlords would) but a lot of damages done to your property and some of the loss of rental income etc.

 

do they start paying, eg unpaid rent cover, quickly?  Or does it wait until the legal battle is over, or something in between?

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13 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

do they start paying, eg unpaid rent cover, quickly?  Or does it wait until the legal battle is over, or something in between?

Hi Lisa, since this appears interesting for many (from the PMs I received), I will write an extra post and info in the Finance Forum during the next days.

 

Cheerio

 

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coolness.personified. our solicitor  did the checks on the tenants and it came up clear. In fact they had 13 inkasso chasing them, then a bailiff turned up at our door asking for the kaution fee they claimed we had. In fact the kaution was already taken up by covering for unpaid water bills.

now our solicitor has a mahnbescheid against them.

 

while this case is going on we can not sell or rent the house but we keep up all payments including all the insurance we pay. 

 

we do not want to leave our home and go back to the big house and we certainly do not want to rent again but are being forced to.

 

I really question what sort of law treats the victims in such a way.

 

yesterday I stood in the supermarket line struggling to find 94 cents to pay for some bread. my husband has been forced to work nights and we go without food because we made a commitment to our dogs.

if I dropped dead then all these problems will be solved so lets hope that happens sometime soon

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19 hours ago, Tim Hortons Man said:

I know this sounds terrible but that is a fascinating case study of how a professional tenant can totally ruin somebody. It inspired me to write a blog post about it. I don't know why but the font is really really small.

 

While this is in the hands of a lawyer there are several things you can do which, if not help, at least remove the feeling of helplessness. Normally I'd say to declare war and never give an inch to scum like this. But in your case it's more about keeping our sanity and trying to bring an end to this nightmare. 

 

The first thing is how good is your German? You mentioned about them having supporters are they gypies or travellers as they're known in the UK. The problem is people like that and their leftie supporters like to present hard working people like yourself as the enemy. They're very experienced in manipulating people. In Canada Trudeau ran and won on a platform of taxing the rich and income redistribution.  In a rare win for the middle class he was forced to back off when it was discovered his finance minister forget to put his multimillion Euro French Chalet into a blind trust, opps. But I digress. 

 

Second point is have  you relied completely on your lawyer or have you been doing your own research. I know people catch flax for asking questions without first visiting seeing a lawyer or visiting the Meitverien but I've seen too many times where the lawyer or accountant made a mistake or more commonly didn't, for what ever reason, give the best advice for the situation.  Supplementing professional with your own research. 

 

Finally and sadly, is there a way you can settle with them? You made it quite clear that these people are professional cheats who know the system inside and out and probably better then your lawyer. Maybe with a bit of luck at the beginning you might have been able to avoid this but now it's about damage control.

 

good luck and please keep us updated

__We did a lot of research ourselves. There is also stuff going on with them that for legal

reasons I can not talk about but trashing our house and harassing us is only part of their act.

as for the supporters. Frau ex tenant will go to people in floods of tears, pushing her boobs out and batting her eyelashes with this sob story and at first people believe her. However when they check the facts they find out the truth.

I really fail to understand why the law protects them or gives them another chance when they are caught. 

on 1st November we are taking a representative with us to the solicitors and demanding answers

19 hours ago, Tim Hortons Man said:

we have proof in writing of the harassment and it is ignored. they claim they had heard that I had said something and its another month of legal wrangle.

 

 

 

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robinson100 , my GP knows fully what is going on. I take up enough of his time with physical problems so I don´t need to be dumping my emotional stuff on him.

 

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40 minutes ago, jakurrpa said:

coolness.personified. our solicitor  did the checks on the tenants and it came up clear. In fact they had 13 inkasso chasing them

 

I was going to wax poetic about how important it is to always double check every tenant directly, yourself, even if you have some kind of agent assisting you with tenant screening...

 

then I discovered Inkasso demands don't make it onto a Schufa for some time, if ever.  here is one of many explanations:  https://www.gutefrage.net/frage/wann-bekommt-man-einen-schufa-eintrag-

 

so does anyone know how a landlord can *fully* vet tenants, financially, since it appears Schufa will not tell you everything there is to know?

 

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Cant afford 94cts for bread but you commit to feeding the dogs?

 

Then why not go to Fessnapf or Kohle or your local pet charrity and tell them the situation and ask if they can help feed the dogs for a month..?

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54 minutes ago, jakurrpa said:

my GP knows fully what is going on. I take up enough of his time with physical problems so I don´t need to be dumping my emotional stuff on him.

 

Your GP gets paid every time you see him. Please tell him about your emotional problems before they eat you alive. He can recommend you to someone who can help.

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lisa13, we have found out that these tenants owe approx. €60.000 around Germany. They are con "artists" and when they get caught they usually run. this time they didn´t run far enough. I don´t understand why they are given more chances though. we know she left her last job just as an investigation team went in to look into theft, then she gets a better job !! They also now rent a beautiful house in a lovely village and we hear they are causing problems there too. part of their case against us is that we gave their new landlord a true financial reference and chose not to give a personal one. they owe us €5.000 in rent and bills on top of all the damage caused

 

fraufruit, i´m not sire i´m depressed but i am very fed up. 8 months of harassment, being called a**e   h**es and finally the smack on the face. i just don´t bother going out any more. at first their following me was a bit of a joke. now i´m just fed up with these people who just seem to be able to do what they want. we know of 2 others going through the same. one for 3 years , the other for 5.          SpiderPig, i didn´t know we could get help with the dogs. I am glad though you didn´t suggest we get rid of them. they are the only ones giving my life some worth at the moment. They also make me feel safe as they will bark if someone gets over the fence. they are innocent so i am happy to shop for their food before my own...

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There's an organization in Germany called Weisser Ring that helps victims of crime - which you clearly are.

 

They provide counseling and, in some cases, financial assistance. An English version of their website is available and lists, among other things, a phone hotline that is available from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. daily.

 

I suggest you get in touch with them. And stay strong.

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