Weinstein

73 posts in this topic

Reading all the news there is something that jars a bit, and I am playing devil's advocate here (so please do not assume for one moment that I feel any sympathy with this man).

 

Many women, some now incredibly rich and successful, others less so, are coming forward with all their awful stories about being molested, overpowered, manipulated, abused etc. 

 

There is a lot of "this has to stop against women", "Hollywood needs to change", etc. etc. 

 

Any fair-minded person (man) will agree that what he allegedly did in the past is vile, antiquated and has no further place in society.  (Make that western society.  In many other parts of the world this kind of behaviour is regarded as 100% normal.)

 

Now my point:  why didn't these highly ambitious and driven women not call him out at the time?  Understood, that the problem for them was the sexual/power imbalance.  They knew or honestly felt that standing up to him could/would destroy their careers.  On the other hand:  where was the strength of their conviction at the time?  It seems to me quite simple:   using Gwyneth as an example:  her role in Shakepeare in Love (for which she won an Oscar, and which helped launched a stellar career) was more important than anything.  It was more important than standing up at the time for what was right, standing up for the sisterhood.

 

Its easy for me to write as a bloke.  But doesn't anyone else find it noteworthy that these women harboured all these experiences, which were evidence of criminal activity - whilst in several cases their careers took off - and only now, when the dam has burst, are coming forward with all their horror-stories?  How many young females would have been spared the "Weinstein massage" if this hadn't been called years ago?

 

Fazit:  standing up for what was morally right, calling out the outrageous behaviour at the time took second place to ensuring that the career advanced.  Are you really such a Twitter champion today, when at the time you never spoke up about having to hide in a cupboard from this creepy arsehole?

 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thousands of kids, men and women are sexually molested every day. I guess you could pose the same question to all of them. I didn't come forward for 30 years.

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had the same thought. The guy is gross and sad to say not the only one out there according to others. But it seems many people knew about this but no one said anything. The even have a clip for the Oscar announcements when Seth Rogan make a joke about him back in 2013. And it is not just the woman. Men also knew and turned their head.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This one guy had the power to make or destroy your career. Would you be brave enough to be the one to take a bullet for everyone else?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have problems with women that marry these kind of assholes. I just read that his wife (41) left him (65).

A rhetoric question, why do women marry ugly 24 year older men?

Because they have power (money)?

I think she knew that he raped women. But as long as he allowed her to live a decent life...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, More tea, Vicar? said:

Now my point:  why didn't these highly ambitious and driven women not call him out at the time? 

Let's assume a role has to be casted, 5 ladies apply, and the casting requires "activities" on a red couch.

1 lady says "OK", get's the role (and shuts up)

4 ladies say "no way!", don't get the role and are back to flipping burgers (and nobody listens to burger flipper's stories about what an ass that Hollywood producer is, they don't have a voice)

 

So, some ladies don't talk, and others aren't listened to...

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There had in fact been a number of complaints against him but the women had all been paid off and obliged by his lawyers to sign non-disclosure agreements to secure their silence

 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

I didn't come forward for 30 years.

 

Same here. I didn't confront my abuser until I was 42, over 30 years after the fact.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The guardian article here (Why did no one speak out about Harvey Weinstein? by Zoe Williams) has this quote which sums up why the question as to why these women didn't come forward is the wrong one to ask.

Quote

The men who do this, do it because they have the power and wealth to get away with it. They deliberately pick on women who are less powerful than themselves.” If you had a lot of professional or cultural capital yourself, it is less likely that you would be sexually harassed; when you chastise victims for not speaking out sooner, you’re asking women to suffer the double punishment of being harassed in the first place, and then having to kill the green shoots of a nascent career for some higher altruistic purpose. Practically if not explicitly, it’s not much different from saying it’s their fault.

 

Really everyone needs to speak out about this kind of stuff. It's not enough to blame the victims.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

I have problems with women...

Fixed that for you. Misogynistic much? Georgina Chapman is from an old money family. She made her own fortune as the owner and designer of Marchesa gowns. But even if she was a gold digger without two centimes to rub together, marrying for money, even being aware of a crime, is not the same as committing rape and sexual coercion. The problem is male entitlement and violence, not women. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Thousands of kids, men and women are sexually molested every day. I guess you could pose the same question to all of them. I didn't come forward for 30 years.

 

My only point is that quite a few people are getting Twitter exposure by recollecting their experiences with this guy.

 

Surely it makes more sense just to quietly go "a-huh" then essentially to say:  "I also had my own experience, but I ignored it, played the required game and carried on with my determined pursuit of fame, fortune and celebrity"? 

 

From today's Telegraph:

 

Other leading ladies with impeccable liberal credentials find themselves in a similarly awkward position. Gwyneth Paltrow, Nicole Kidman and Dame Judi Dench have all had their careers shaped by Svengali Harve. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a woman marries a man and she knows that he raped women, it  shows him that his behaviour is accepted by women.

Why did she marry such an ugly old guy?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

If a woman marries a man and she knows that he raped women, it  shows him that his behaviour is accepted by women.

Why did she marry such an ugly old guy?

 

Although you haven't put your gender in your profile, I take it you are a guy.

 

I have heard that power is attractive to some women.  It must be a pretty strong attraction in order to smother any disgust; the guy looks like Jabba the Hut (!)

 

(Over to the TTers who have put "female" in their profiles.)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

right.  Men are so open about these things..."hey honey, I just jerked off on one of those wanna be starlets...I feel GREAT!  care for some champagne?"

 

what the hell are you talking about?  Why on earth do you presume women KNOW their partners are abusers before, during or even after the fact?

 

note I'm not talking about mr weinstein's case, but you are speaking in generalities and what you're saying is generally cookoo

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weinstein, the Democratic counterpart to Trump.  If he wants to save his career all he has to do is become the next US president.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

right.  Men are so open about these things..."hey honey, I just jerked off on one of those wanna be starlets...I feel GREAT!  care for some champagne?"

 

what the hell are you talking about?  Why on earth do you presume women KNOW their partners are abusers before, during or even after the fact?

 

note I'm not talking about mr weinstein's case, but you are speaking in generalities and what you're saying is generally cookoo

 

If the man was such a monumental and committed lecher over all these years, you are saying (as a woman) that his wife didn't have ANY IDEA about him?

 

Even when he missed a kiddies birthday because he was at his New York firm, negotiating a settlement with a disgruntled starlet?

 

They have been married for ten years.

 

I can't speak for women, but I can speak for men married to women.  My lovely wife has a powerful sixth sense.  Wo betide I should start trying to deceive. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

note I'm not talking about mr weinstein's case

 

ermmmm....can you please re-read that?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

A rhetoric question, why do women marry ugly 24 year older men?

 

Ask Melania Trump.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@pappnase

 

That link is good. Thank you. Leading to a lot of other sources, which is very interesting.

 

It is true that bystanders have a part to play. The classic pattern of - regrettable thing said, done, written, no-one really takes any notice, person complains, response - Oh, it was only meant in fun, you have no sense of humour, can't you tell a joke when you see one.

 

This plays out in our lives from when we are small, and no wonder that as we grow up, the ability or confidence to speak out shrinks away. No-one takes any notice, and the perpetrator will always make you feel stupid. The best way to break that is to be the one who notices and brings it up (with reference to the woman/girl/person being harrassed and their feelings).

 

In real life, in my community, I am absolutely shielded from this behaviour, and command the greatest of respect. Online, not so much. It is shocking what then comes one's way. Presumably this is the daily fare of other women in their actual lives, and that reality is frightening.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now