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Freistellungsauftrag and different depots in different Banks

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Hi,

 

I think I missed this point when I opened my depot few months ago. So, There is an exemption on the first XXXX euro ( I don't remember the exact number) you gain with equities.

I should fill this  Freistellungsauftrag  form and so the Broker will not take the taxes from my gains till I don't reach the above mentioned threshold.

My question is: what happen if I have equities on different Broker/banks ? How they know when I reach that threshold and to they have to start to take taxes from my gain ?

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You are responsible to split the Freistellungsauftrag between the different financial entities.  So you have to tell each one what the amount is.  They don't share information between each other, but they do now (I believe) share information with the tax authorities.

 

But ultimately your tax return is where the final amounts are calculated and declared.  So at the end of the (tax) year, the amount deducted for tax should be correct with the finance amt.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

But ultimately your tax return is where the final amounts are calculated and declared.  So at the end of the (tax) year, the amount deducted for tax should be correct with the finance amt.  

 

 

 

That is the point.

I am not using "convenient" broker because I want a Broker that manages the Tax stuff for me. The sum I am investing in equities is not so high that it will be worth to pay a tax consultant and also I don't want to risk to do mistakes by managing by myself this part of the tax refund declaration.

But if i have to anyway calculate my gains and declare them in the tax form return then i come back to the situation that I have to manage by myself the tax payment for equities gains.  And is some cases is not just doing "Sell price - Buy price"...currency exchange and other stuff comes into the computation :wacko:

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If you only have capital income from German banks, then you do not have to do a tax return, as long as the sum of all the Freistellungsaufträge is 801€ (if you're single. If you're a married couple it's 1,602€) or less.

 

Example:

Freistellungsauftrag bank A: 200€

Freistellungsauftrag bank B: 100€

Freistellungsauftrag bank C: 501€

 

***********************************

 

If you also have capital income from non-German banks, you anyway always have to do a tax return.

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On 9/29/2017, 10:39:59, PandaMunich said:

If you only have capital income from German banks, then you do not have to do a tax return, as long as the sum of all the Freistellungsaufträge is 801€ (if you're single. If you're a married couple it's 1,602€) or less.

 

Example:

Freistellungsauftrag bank A: 200€

Freistellungsauftrag bank B: 100€

Freistellungsauftrag bank C: 501€

 

***********************************

 

If you also have capital income from non-German banks, you anyway always have to do a tax return.

 

I have capital income only from German Banks.

But from what i read now here I have to make a forecast and spread this 801 among 2 german banks, right ? I make an example.

 

I don't know the exact % in taxes but let say that for capital gain i have to pay 27%.

 

I have equities on Bank A and Bank B.

I fill a Freistellungsaufträge form for Bank A, stating that  for Bank A my Freistellungsaufträge limit will be 200 euro.

I fill a Freistellungsaufträge form for Bank B, stating that for Bank B my Freistellungsaufträge limit will be 601 euro.

 

At the end of the year I have made these gains:

1) Bank A: 2000 euro  gain that brings me to pay 540 euro of capital gain taxes.  But thanks to the  Freistellungsaufträge I will pay 540 - 200 = 340. So during the year Bank A starts to take money from my gains IMMEDIATELY after I consume this 200 euro buffer.

2) Bank B: 1000 euro gain that brings me to pay 270 euro of capital gain taxes. Thanks to the Freistellungsaufträge i pay nothing in taxes.

 

A the end of the story I Gained, in total, 3000 euro, I should pay 27% ( 810 euro) and thanks to the Freistellungsaufträge I should pay just 810 - 801 = 9 euro but instead I payed 340 euro.

 

So in order to have back this 340 euro I should fill in my Tax declaration the part related to capital gain income. That I would avoid because it is not so straight forward (that is why I use Brokers that manage by themselves my tax stuff).

 

Is this right ? Or Am I missing something ?

 

 

PS: by the way this Freistellungsaufträge stuff pop up in my mind after a notice I got from DKB when I made my first purchase of equities few days ago. This notice was informing me that I had filled no Freistellungsaufträge with them and that I still could do.

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You understood it, except for the fact that the Freistellungsauftrag does not exempt tax, it acts a layer above that, i.e. it only exempts capital income from taxation.

 

So in your example, bank A would deduct Abgeltungssteuer+Soli (= 0.25*1.055= 26.375%) on (2,000€ - 200€):

0.26375 * (2,000€ - 200€)

= 474.75€

 

Bank B would deduct in tax:

0.26375 * (1,000€ - 601€)

= 105.24€

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Yep it is a deduction and not a detraction.

But at the end I have anyway to declare it in the tax reform if I want to "re-balance" the  Freistellungsauftrag   layers I have in the 2 banks, right ? I mean, there is no automatism from Finanzamt that checks data incoming from the 2 banks and "automatically" determine If I have to have back some money, right ?

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Anyone got any idea how this works with 2 depots with the same bank (in my case comdirect)? I see I can do the Freistellungsauftrag online, but then I fear that will then only link to the depot I am logged into. I could easily split them, but I'm also thinking if I do it in paper form or something then maybe I don't need to split it as it is the same bank anyhow.

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Call them, we don't know how the bureaucracy is working at your bank. Normally you need 1 FSA for 1 bank, it should apply to all depots.

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20 hours ago, yourkeau said:

Normally you need 1 FSA for 1 bank, it should apply to all depots.

 

You are right. I have it in writing that:

 

"Gerne bestätigen wir Ihnen, dass der Freistellungsauftrag kontenübergreifend gilt. Dadurch stellen Sie alle Kapitalerträge, die Sie bei comdirect erwirtschaften vom automatischen Steuerabzug frei."

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