After 2017 election: The center holds

[Lear 315]

In Germany, the Center Holds
NYT

And yet Sunday was also a great day for Germany. It was a demonstration of the stability and health of the country’s postwar democracy. It was proof that its system is resilient in a crisis. It was a demonstration of Germany’s serenity and maturity.

[gaberlunzi 814]

1 hour ago, Lear said:

It was a demonstration of Germany’s serenity and maturity

It was everything but..

I was asked as the only Kraut at the coffee table what was wrong with the German people. Sadly I didn't want to answer it. Difficult to admit that they are stupid.

[MikeMelga 6,081]

AFD + FDP + CSU = largest group in parliament

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

AFD + FDP + CSU = largest group in parliament

 

In dyslexia-land only: 12,6 + 10,7 + 6,2% = 29,5%.

 

LOL

[PandaMunich 14,958]

He evidently meant CDU, so if the CSU would want to do a repeat of 1976 and leave the CDU/CSU-Fraktion:

source

200 seats CDU

+ 80 seats FDP

+ 93 seats (= 94 - Ms. Petry's seat, since she left the AfD-Fraktion) AfD

_______________

= 373 seats, which is 52.6% of the total number of 709 seats

@someonesdaughter 

Can't you just be happy that an expat is interested enough in the political situation in Germany to find out about the election results, and overlook such slight mistakes?

Wouldn't it make more sense (and be nicer) to just explain to him that the CDU excluded any cooperation with the AfD, and that therefore his idea for a coalition won't work, than to just slap him down?

 

 

[MikeMelga 6,081]

Panda, thank you for sticking up for me, but actually I stand correct.

 

From Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017

 

So CSU (46) + FDP(80) + AFD(94) = 220 > CDU(200)

 

In percentage it is the same.

 

My point: as my German colleagues tell me, CSU is far-right, so if you gather those 3 parties, you actually have the largest group in parliment, although not even close to a majority. Not saying it will happen, but it was just a remark regarding the thread title.

[jeba 3,649]

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

CSU is far-right,

That´s not true

[john g. 34,024]

Please elaborate, jeba. I think the term far-right is used too often anyway but let us know your thoughts.

[gaberlunzi 814]

1 hour ago, john g. said:

Please elaborate, jeba. I think the term far-right is used too often anyway but let us know your thoughts.

Can anyone explain why they call it right and left?

What are the movers of world politic called? crooks?

(no simple voter need apply, only people who do good with somebody else,s money and effort)

[MikeMelga 6,081]

1 hour ago, jeba said:

That´s not true

Unsure, don't know them very well, just that my Bavarian colleagues say that "CSU is where the Nazis went after WW2".

I know they are very conservative, unsure about far-right attitudes.

[Starshollow 6,020]

Sorry, but you just can't put FDP in one context with AFD and CSU. That does not make the slightest bit of sense.

The CSU is also nothing close like the AFD.

Of course we can start an intensive debate on details, but it still stands as general point to make.

 

Cheerio

 

[Starshollow 6,020]

16 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Unsure, don't know them very well, just that my Bavarian colleagues say that "CSU is where the Nazis went after WW2".

I know they are very conservative, unsure about far-right attitudes.

 

This is uninformed nonsense, sorry. Former Nazis went into most parties (and even more so in government functions) after WWII/founding of German federal republic.

CSU had it's share...as did many others.

In political science, the CSU would be considered center-right.

If you get elected with vast majorities in a German state like the CSU did for 40+ years, you are considered a Volkspartei, not a right-Nazi-like-party.

 

Cheerio

 

[gaberlunzi 814]

14 minutes ago, Starshollow said:

In political science, the CSU would be considered center-right.

Ok, tells me you people know very little about the German political system.

I have been away from Germany to long to make a valid comment, but I do know that the term right and left had nothing to do with political view points.

It just so happened that the socialists/worker and 'poor people parties sat to the left of the speaker in the Reichstag when the German people were organized in a

Reich. I believe it was around 1870 when Bismark was the kanzler.

As for real Nazis I knew a few. There was a saying in Baverian: Wer nix is und wer nix ka, geht zur Post oder Eisenbahn oder the SA! (the real nazis) they all had to belong. That was when I started school in 1935. Here also, the lower echelon did not have much of a political knowledge or conviction. They just wanted a job.

I still remember my father's ranting ( he was a poorblood socialist, not liked very much by any right or middle class. He was a bricklayer)

To speak of a Nazi these days is just giving away ones bad education. There are no new or old Nazis, the new don't know and the old are dead.

[gaberlunzi 814]

40 minutes ago, Starshollow said:

In political science, the CSU would be considered center-right.

It was run by the Catholic church to begin with and that's why they had such a majority for so long. SPD was labour oriented and was strong in cities.

The Pfarrer ruled the roost in the country.

[BayrischDude 2,000]

16 minutes ago, gaberlunzi said:

 but I do know that the term right and left had nothing to do with political view points.

It just so happened that the socialists/worker and 'poor people parties sat to the left of the speaker in the Reichstag when the German people were organized in a

Reich. I believe it was around 1870 when Bismark was the kanzler.

 

I am no expert, but I recall from history courses that the terms are political and were first used during (parliment or whatever it was called) support for the French King during their revolution in the 18th Century (or shortly thereafter)...

[bramble 8,851]

1 hour ago, gaberlunzi said:

It was run by the Catholic church to begin with and that's why they had such a majority for so long.

 

I think that information is wrong. The Bayerische Volkspartei was catholic, but the CSU is protestant from the beginning:

 

Quote

Die CSU setzt bedingt die Tradition der Bayerischen Volkspartei (BVP) fort. Zwar hatte sich diese 1918 aus Protest gegen den von der Zentrumspartei verfolgten unitaristischen Kurs von dieser abgespalten und betonte von nun an die bayerischen Sonderinteressen. Jedoch finden sich die stark rechtskonservativen und restaurativen Positionen der BVP in der CSU nur noch sehr vereinzelt wieder. Ein weiterer bedeutender Unterschied ist, dass sich die CSU von Anfang an auch als Partei für protestantische Christen verstand, während die BVP eine ausschließlich katholische Partei war, die zudem jede sozialistische Vorstellung radikal ablehnte, wohingegen in der CSU in ihren Anfangsjahren durchaus Tendenzen zu sozialistischen Forderungen (Verstaatlichungen, Bodenreform) vorhanden waren.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christlich-Soziale_Union_in_Bayern

 

[gaberlunzi 814]

44 minutes ago, bramble said:

I think that information is wrong. The Bayerische Volkspartei was catholic, but the CSU is protestant from the beginning:

Lady, we are talking 1948 and not 1918. Have you lived in lower Bavaria then, I did. and one of the reason I never returned.

There are 2 halves, the southern is mostly Catholic and the northern Protestant. By the way it looks now it does not make much difference. the Lutherans are as bad as the Catholics, so they fit nicely together in the CSU. Tolerance is sparingly used by both. Nothing of showing the left side when the right side is hit.

[Thormein 86]

7 minutes ago, gaberlunzi said:

Lady, we are talking 1948 and not 1918. Have you lived in lower Bavaria then, I did. and one of the reason I never returned.

There are 2 halves, the southern is mostly Catholic and the northern Protestant. By the way it looks now it does not make much difference. the Lutherans are as bad as the Catholics, so they fit nicely together in the CSU. Tolerance is sparingly used by both. Nothing of showing the left side when the right side is hit.

 

Hey gaberlunzi!

 

Are you happy in your neck of the woods?

 

I mean nothing happens in Canada right?

[gaberlunzi 814]

53 minutes ago, Thormein said:

 

Are you happy in your neck of the woods?

Oh, we have our little frictions, but nothing like the German Rechtsstaat.

We live in a cold place generally and the global warming is welcome.

So what is there to complain?

 

https://www.heritagefest.ca/about-us

something that makes us understand each other

[jeba 3,649]

10 hours ago, john g. said:

Please elaborate, jeba. I think the term far-right is used too often anyway but let us know your thoughts.

Starshallowed answered that for me already. A party which repeatedly catches an absolute majority can hardly be described as extreme  far right by definition. Apart from that "extreme far right" to me sounds like "undemocratic, fascist". Which the CSU clearly is not. Especially under Seehofer they are far too much populist for that.