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Is this legal: Security guard checking my personal belongings

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Hi Toytowners!

 

Tl;dr: Is it legal that for (Media Markt's) security guard to request checking whats in my personal belongings, even though the theft alarm didn't go off?!

 

Long story:

I broke my phone and I went to Media Markt to ask if they an fix it. I had a package from amazon with me, and it was a big one (75cm or so). I went into the shop, and the security guard saw me coming in with this big package, and he said nothing. When I left the store, the guard asked me to see whats in the box even though there was no theft alarm. I just agreed without thinking too much. He held the headphones that I've ordered from amazon and asked me to come with him so he can check if I stole those headphones! No need to say how insulting that was!

 

My question is, was that legal? Is it my legal right to refuse opening up any of my personal belongings in similar situations?

 

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3 minutes ago, Deezz said:

My question is, was that legal?

 

Yes, since you agreed.

 

3 minutes ago, Deezz said:

 

Is it my legal right to refuse opening up any of my personal belongings in similar situations?

 

It is – but then they will call in the police and they will open your personal belongings. 

 

Solution: Don't schlepp big boxes into stores.

 

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You do not have to let them check anything.  You can tell him to call the Police.  

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14 minutes ago, Deezz said:

He held the headphones that I've ordered from amazon and asked me to come with him so he can check if I stole those headphones! No need to say how insulting that was!

So, you brought headphones into a store that sells headphones?

 

Quote

No need to say how idiotic that was!

FTFY.

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2 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

What's wrong with that?  Do you go naked when you want to buy clothes?

No. And I don't bring an amazon box with new clothes, either.

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So you buy clothes in one shop and then go home and put those clothes there and then go back to continue shopping in the next shop ...

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Usually upon entering you can go to the info desk, show that you're bringing these items into the store and they may put a stamp or sticker on them to show you brought them.

Makes life much easier.

 

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Ok stupid example but, what if I say, "Ok call the police", why should I wait for the police? (I know it would look if I am fleeing, but I did not call them) If  it would be illegal for them (the store) to hold you? am I missing something? What if you have to use the restrooms or dunno, catch the next tram?

 

Story time:

Once I was in Ikea and we used the self-service option. Needles to say, some security guy stopped us and he said he must check the ticket and count the articles. I didn't think about it and the guy checked everything and say, there were extra articles in our cart. I said no, and counted them myself. Everything was right, but then the guy had to check 3 more times. Once he got 1 more, the second  he got 2 less and finally he counted right.

 

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7 minutes ago, Villa said:

Ok stupid example but, what if I say, "Ok call the police", why should I wait for the police? (I know it would look if I am fleeing, but I did not call them)

 

But you are the reason they were called.

 

7 minutes ago, Villa said:

 

 

 If  it would be illegal for them (the store) to hold you? am I missing something?

 

Yes, you are missing that they (the security guards) can arrest you: 

 

"Weist sich der mutmaßlich Dieb an Ort und Stelle nicht direkt aus, ist seine Identität trotz Ausweispapieren nicht eindeutig feststellbar, weigert er sich, mitzukommen oder versucht zu flüchten, erlaubt das Gesetz die vorläufige Festnahme der Person (§ 127 Strafprozessordnung)*."

 

https://lebensmittelpraxis.de/zentrale-management/10523-ladendiebstahl-was-darf-der-ladendetektiv.html

 

*https://dejure.org/gesetze/StPO/127.html

 

BTW I have no idea why you people waste your life-time with evaluating the pros and cons of troublemaking ...

 

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57 minutes ago, franklan said:

So, you brought headphones into a store that sells headphones?

Seriously?  I suppose when you're out shopping, once you buy anything, you refuse to enter another store which sells anything that you already bought?  You must do a lot of Amazon shopping yourself.

 

And of course there is nothing wrong with bringing Amazon headphones into another store, since Amazon boxes contain a receipt for the ordered item.

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1 minute ago, someonesdaughter said:

BTW I have no idea why you people waste your life-time with evaluating the pros and cons of troublemaking ...

And I have no idea why "you people" just submit to so many things without question.  

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6 minutes ago, naberlin said:

Seriously?  

 

Yes, seriously – bringing brand new (!) headphones, probably even in its original packaging, to a store that sells headphones is an invitation to get checked. 

 

Quote

 

And of course there is nothing wrong with bringing Amazon headphones into another store, since Amazon boxes contain a receipt for the ordered item.

 

And of course nothing is wrong about checking that receipt. So what is this thread about? Much ado about nothing...

 

Quote

And I have no idea why "you people" just submit to so many things without question.  

 

Who invited you to contribute?

 

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Seriously?  I suppose when you're out shopping, once you buy anything, you refuse to enter another store which sells anything that you already bought?

Exactly, If I bought a Levis 501 at one store, I won't go into another store that also sells exactly that product (Levis 501), without making clear that there is absolutely no reason for the moronic Mietmuskel to start a discussion with me when I am about to leave the shop. 

 

Why the heck should I do that? Looking like a troublemaker? The guy that Villa was writing about couldn't even count...

 

Quote

BTW I have no idea why you people waste your life-time with evaluating the pros and cons of troublemaking

 

 

Exactly. 

Bringing goods into a store is just the same thing as "letting the water run and taking a nap". And then there goes that "I had unpleasant experiences", "they wouldn't let me alone", "I am pregnant and that distress could lead to loss of my baby", "I was so insulted", "when the police search my pockets, they found my vitamins with kyrilic label" blabla bullshit...

 

And FFS, leave me alone with that "I have the right to bring goods into a store and being left alone", as that is exactly the same bullshit as the "I have the right  to let my water run at night whilst taking a nap without being bothered and now I lawyer up"...

 

Ladies: Don't bring items into a store that sells exactly that item. Otherwise, you're taken for a troublemaker.

 

Gentlemen: Check that your zipper is closed before you enter a Kintergarten. Otherwise, you're taken for a troublemaker.

 

Simple as that...

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23 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

Yes, seriously – bringing brand new (!) headphones, probably even in its original packaging, to a store that sells headphones is an invitation to get checked. 

Um, OK.

 

25 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

Who invited you to contribute?

I guess the same person that invited you?  Who made you the person who determines who contributes or not?

 

11 minutes ago, franklan said:

BTW I have no idea why you people waste your life-time with evaluating the pros and cons of troublemaking

And I likewise have no idea why you people waste your time worrying about which goods you bring into stores?  You seriously worry about this stuff?  And anyone who doesn't is a "trouble-maker"?!

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@someones, that's really interesting, but, are security companies protected for false accusing someone? at the end... who can determine who is or isn't  a "mutmaßlich Dieb"?

 

Hypotetically speaking:

You are looking for something in let's say MediaMarkt, you didn't find what you wanted and you go through the checkout (sometimes you can't go back through the same entrance) and then the security guard stop you. Then what? What's is the criteria for presumable thief? 

 

I am genuinely asking, because sometimes common sense in Germany is not common sense in the rest of the world.

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Until you are convicted by court you are a "mutmaßlicher Dieb".

 

The criteria for "alleged", you look suspicious.

 

"Es genügt, wenn die erkennbaren äußeren Umstände einen dringenden Tatverdacht nahe legen (BGH NJW 1981, 745; BayObLGSt 1986, 52; OLG Stuttgart OLGSt Nr 3; OLG Hamm NStZ 1998, 370; OLG Zweibrücken NJW 1981, 2016)" BeckOK StPO § 127 Rn 3

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That verdict is a bit more about just looking suspicious. The guy who caught the bullet was about to enter company property through a hole in a fence and there had been repeated cases of theft (empty bottles). Probably also played a role that the verdict is almost 40 years old and the guy was a hobo. Different times...

 

In general, if you are not police you are allowed to hold people you cannot ID until police arrives if you catch them in the very act of doing the crime. That is true for everyone incl. shop owners/security. "Catching them in the act" usually means you actually see them putting something from the shelf into their own bag/jacket. The police can then look into the bags. In this case I doubt it would have been legal to be held involuntary. But we will never know unless a judge decides (i.e. after the fact). But security can always ask. If you agree then it's on you. Just be prepared they might have a different opinion about what's legal and it could end in a fight...

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