Immoral mother ?

51 posts in this topic

Hello again to all of you

 

it is sad that a man has to come to this point to ask for advice and help regarding this matter which bothers me.

 

One year ago I came to Germany with my children after Familienzusammenführung. My wife came first after she got a job here in Germany. i spent

one year alone with children in our home country waiting for rejoining with my wife.

 

When we came I spent almost a one year at home with children waiting for a place in a Kindergarten and for beginning of my integration course which I started

in april this year. During that time my wife was the only one who was earning the money for us and I know it was not easy for her. I also felt very bad because as a father it was very

difficult for me to sit at home and watch her only working. But I tried to compensate that by taking all the care about children and house so she had not to do anything except to go to work.

 

But she become unsatisfied. At the beginning of July she told me that I was not enough supporting that she must everything alone and that she want us to separate. I was confused and sad

but I respected her wish. I asked her to wait some time until I found a job for me and a flat so I can move out and she agreed. Few days after that I realized that I was very stupid to agree upon her wishes because I was still in the language course and we havent at all discuss about children whom I love more than anything else. So I stayed in the same house searching for a job in meanwhile. 

 

During past two months she become so unpleasent that even important matters regarding children does not want to properly discuss. I am really trying to be tolerant and keep good mood because of the children. I do not want them to suffer because of this situation. They are so young.

Some time I am suspecting that she has an affair. But I could not approve so i did not push that thing. I keep it in myself.

 

Twenty days ago she came home and told me that we will have a subtenant in our house without asking me for that. The house is rent on her name. I was astonished but I did say nothing.

 

Because of her peace I moved in other room. I did not want to feel bad because of me and give her enough space. especially because of the children. She is every day in bad mood and the children suffer because of that.

 

Two days ago I was shocked. I was in my room and little past midnight I realized that she was having sex with her lover. He stayed all night. During that night children were coming in her room because they do that ussually during sleep. Also during past months she used to sleep out of house for night or two without letting me to know that.

 

I could not believe myself. I understand that she needs sex but to bring him into the house while I am still here and let children watch this awful situation where the children watch mother with another man in bed while their father is still here, is for me immoral. Besides that she does not cook for them, and other house job are upon me. I do not have problem with that because the children need normal life, clean space, warm food.

 

I found a job last week so after I receive my three salaries I will look for my flat but I am so sad that I have to leave children with her. Her salary is bigger than my and I could not afford bigger apartment. we are both non-EU citizens and I still depend on her visa. I just do not know what to do anymore.

 

What can a man like me do in such situation?I was thinking about asking for a help from sociala service. I just do not know. I just need help regarding this matter.

 

Does anyone has an advice?

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9 hours ago, ITboy said:

I am so sad that I have to leave children with her. Her salary is bigger than my and I could not afford bigger apartment.

It isn´t safe to say that you´ll have to leave the children with her. If the court rules that they should stay with you) which is well possible given that you´ve been the primary caregiver) your wife might have to support you financially. My advice would be to get legal advice and then try to talk to your wife in a constructive way about how to handle this crisis with regard to your kids. I´d also try to get advice from a kids psychologist on how to minimise the emotional impact on them (preferably together with your wife).

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11 hours ago, ITboy said:

I found a job last week so after I receive my three salaries I will look for my flat but I am so sad that I have to leave children with her. Her salary is bigger than my and I could not afford bigger apartment. we are both non-EU citizens and I still depend on her visa. I just do not know what to do anymore.

 

What can a man like me do in such situation?I was thinking about asking for a help from sociala service. I just do not know. I just need help regarding this matter.

 

Does anyone has an advice?

 

Congratulations on finding a job at last. Surely, if it's legal you should have no problems getting a visa. Here are the details of the requirements for Bosnians (in German):

http://www.tirana.diplo.de/contentblob/4648770/Daten/7380062/170203_WBRegelung_Arbeitsaufnahmede.pdf

 

Here and in your other two threads on the same subject ...

 

... you have been advised to seek legal advice. Now that you are earning your own money get yourself a Rechtsschutzversicherung (legal protection insurance), though you will have to wait the usual 3 months before you can use it. So sit the situation out for the time being and don't move out and leave the kids with your wife until you have obtained legal advice.

 

in your other thread you said you would go to Caritas and AWO for advice. Did you go? What advice did they give you? In the meantime maybe the Jugendamt can give advice and support concerning your current family situation:

http://www.amtfuersozialedienste.bremen.de/das_amt/amtsleitung___jugendamtsleitung-3531

 

 

 

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While your situation is horrible, your wife is not immoral. 

 

Your marriage has broken up, she has a new lover, and she's having sex with him. It would have been polite of her to wait until you were out of the house, rather than rubbing your face in it, but that is mean not immoral.

 

If well earning man dumped his wife for a younger better looking model, well we might say what a bastard, but we would also recognise that that's the natural order of things. Unfortunately for you, a lot of women cannot continue a relationship with a man who earns less than them. It might seem shallow and a lot of woman are surprised to discover that they cannot handle this. Being a stay at home dad sometimes works out, but not so often.

 

The nuclear family is hard wired to have the man as the main breadwinner.Sometimes it's possible to reverse this when both parties desire to. But in this case it happened through circumstances. 

 

So focus on your rights, and finances rather than trying to demonize her. 

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@MadAxeMurderer I agree with everything you said. I felt so bad during past months because I couldn't be that breadwinner I was expected to be.I understand what is the role of a father but the circumstances were such that I was unable to fulfill my role completely. I supported her until she finished recognition of her qualification in August and then when she reached her goal, she told me to leave. Coming to Germany were our united effort for better life of our children and us. If I had opportunity to come first, I would do that gladly but it was impossible. I know she needs her peace and life. I need that too. But my current position isn't shiny. I still haven't received my first salary. I do not know what are my rights. My intention isn't to demonize her. She is the mother of my children. We shared life together, fight together to succeed. I can not forget that nor I want. Just hers behavior is so awful. Pity. Since she fall in depression I do not recognized her. But we will survive. Thanks for replay.

 

@bramble I went to AWO and Caritas. I explained them my current situation but unfortunately I did not get any useful answer. They concluded that I am dependent on her residency permit which I already know. They even could not say for sure if I can stay in the house until I find job and receive first three salaries which are prerequisites for finding an apartment for me. So I was left confused. Everything is so difficult regarding these laws. Thanks for reply.

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On 9/10/2017, 9:11:17, MadAxeMurderer said:

 

The nuclear family is hard wired to have the man as the main breadwinner.

This is a very compassionate post with much to be agreeable about. But the above, and the asides about women not being able to handle making more money than men, are simply not true. There is no such thing as "lady brain" and "man brain." The only hardwiring that comes with humans is the same that goes with the rest of the mammals, our chromosomes and reproductive systems. Everything else is (patriarchal) culture, which means it can be usurped. 

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@shoegazer Here's a less controversial illustration of the difference between men and women's brains

Quote

I found one particular example illuminating: While in a brain scanner, 18 men and women were subjected to hearing a hungry baby cry. In women’s brains, the sound interrupted the normal brain activity that’s associated with awake resting, jolting them out of their quiet daydreaming. The brains of men, in contrast, “carry on without interruption,” the researchers wrote in a 2013 NeuroReport paper.

 

It’s a small study, but my N=2 observations corroborate the results. The slightest little whimper from our new baby wakes me up and sets my heart racing. My husband, however, often stays sleeping like a baby. Maybe it’s time for me to stop thinking that he’s faking it. 

 

Women are simply better than men at some things. Live with it.

 

All read this article. What Happens When Wives Earn More Than Husbands

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@MadAxeMurdererUnfortunately you do not make room for exceptions. When my wife gave birth, she spent two weeks in bed after Caesarean section. From the first day my sons life I bathed him alone. I did not ask for anyone's help. I took all care about this small creature. Even in the days when I was with him alone at home, i was able to sense through thick walls when he was crying and I was at that moment outside of the house. I just had that feeling and it was never wrong. Even in the last years I used to woke up hearing them cry from another room while my wife was sleeping. What a pity that people think that only mother can have this kind of bond with children. 

 

Last night she brought her lover and and was sitting in the living room with him and her friend whom she recently brought into the house to live with us and they were smoking weed. From my point of view this is not right. Also I just came from the work and she was so lazy to even buy bread for them. We can only talk about this superficial because I can not say all the facts about our past life to see the depth of this problem. If I was bad to her, I was never bad to my children. Whatever were my feelings toward her, the children never suffered because of that.

 

@maryrrfI completely agree with you that she is showing very poor judgment.

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@AnswerToLife42 Thanks for advice. It is one very good. Because of my tolerant nature I usually try to forget this things just that the life can continue better. I will keep this in mind.

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1 hour ago, shoegazer said:

women not being able to handle making more money than men, are simply not true. There is no such thing as "lady brain" and "man brain." The only hardwiring that comes with humans is the same that goes with the rest of the mammals, our chromosomes and reproductive systems. Everything else is (patriarchal) culture, which means it can be usurped. 

Even if the differences were only cultural it would take generations to undo them. We are all products of the culture that shaped us for our first one or two quarter centuries.

Besides, there are clear physiological differences. A man's brain is bigger, our hormones partly shape our characters and if you seriously think that other mammals display no gender specific behaviour try walking acrooss a field of cows and then walk past a bull! 

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As said above, go see a lawyer - do this as soon as possible.

Also, depending on how you access this forum, clean your internet history after every visit.

 

If you use chrome you can delete individual history entries.

 

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Go see a lawyer to protect access to your kids and then get out as soon as you can.  For your own mental health.  

 I would go back home and take your kids with you (if you legally can) but I do not know your personal situation. Dealing with a divorce, an ice cold ex, as well as a new job, in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language, far from your support network, etc. is not a recipe for success.   

 

23 minutes ago, LeChamois said:

Even if the differences were only cultural it would take generations to undo them. We are all products of the culture that shaped us for our first one or two quarter centuries.

Besides, there are clear physiological differences. A man's brain is bigger, our hormones partly shape our characters and if you seriously think that other mammals display no gender specific behaviour try walking acrooss a field of cows and then walk past a bull! 

Sounds like bull.  Her behavior is only appropriate if she is a cow.  

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28 minutes ago, LeChamois said:

Even if the differences were only cultural it would take generations to undo them. We are all products of the culture that shaped us for our first one or two quarter centuries.

Besides, there are clear physiological differences. A man's brain is bigger, our hormones partly shape our characters and if you seriously think that other mammals display no gender specific behaviour try walking acrooss a field of cows and then walk past a bull! 

Sex. That is sex-specific behaviour. This is actually the basis of Darwin's very first published findings, about the behaviour of bower birds. But he was talking about bio sex, not avian "culture." Sex is biologically ordained. Gender is a cultural system of oppression. Gender and sex are not synonyms and are not interchangeable. 

 

I realise there is no point in having this conversation on Toytown. Even between the time of my first comment and now the topic title has been changed by some bro to a "hilarious" porn scenario, and what the OP had – "Immoral Mother" – was already misogynist enough. 

 

But at least get the vocabulary correct. 

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On 10.9.2017, 09:11:17, MadAxeMurderer said:

Your marriage has broken up, she has a new lover, and she's having sex with him. It would have been polite of her to wait until you were out of the house, rather than rubbing your face in it, but that is mean not immoral.

 

This is definitely not an OK thing to do. He has been looking after their kids for years on his own, and enabling her life outside the family. She has decided that its all over, and moves another man into the house with him and their children. This is not moral behaviour, unless your moral bar is about 3mm off the ground. Seriously?!

 

There is some expectation in modern life that it is OK to treat other people like shit because of our own personal happiness being the thing that matters most, but actually along with rights come responsibilities. In this case, he has not been hanging around for years holding her back from moving on with her life, it all happened at the start of the summer.

 

 

 

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If OP is not rich or have access to a free attorney he might want to skip the lawer at this time and if his German is not good enough to call JA then can even right now email them in English asking help you shield your children form the drug use and the stange man who has access to them in their home. Ask them if they can have HER move out temporarily with her boyfriend while you stay in the marital home with the children. This is your marital home to which you as a husband have a right to be in peace. Even if you are not on the lease. Even if  you have not been mentioned to the landlord. Because it is at this point it is harder for you to find a new place for you and the children in Germany than it is for her and this way children can have home stability and the drugs will be consumed by her outside of the home and the stange man will not have access to the children.  

 

Would be great if she gets high at home in the next days so you can have the police come and catch her red handed, with children in the home doing that.. but make sure you insist to Anzeigen. Kindeswohlgefärdung. Drug ocnsumpiton with childrne in the home or something like that. Some number of the incidnt. Police are often reluctant to do the paperwork.

And you want to have the number of an incident.

 

Family court does not require a lawyer, the matter will be sent to the JA anyway so best to be the one who was proactive. And it would sound bad for you if it was going on for a long time and you did not contact the JA on it asking for their support to get a safer and healthier home environment fo rthe children.

 

If you do not contact them on this matter real soon it will look bad on you for not being proactive to defend them and advocate for them. Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, shoegazer said:

This is a very compassionate post with much to be agreeable about. But the above, and the asides about women not being able to handle making more money than men, are simply not true. There is no such thing as "lady brain" and "man brain." The only hardwiring that comes with humans is the same that goes with the rest of the mammals, our chromosomes and reproductive systems. Everything else is (patriarchal) culture, which means it can be usurped. 

Glad we have an expert on here!:lol: No point in having this discussion on Toytown, you mentioned earlier.:D

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