Got Evicted Without Notice and Belongings Removed

321 posts in this topic

@LeonGGood theory! Have you thought of writing landlord/tenant detective fiction?

 

But sadly there's one hole. Registered letters have to be exchanged at some point. Or the bailiff has to deliver the court summons. Yellow envelope.

Of course the landlord could have forged signatures. In which case they depth of the the shit pile just doubled.

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1 minute ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

@LeonGGood theory! Have you thought of writing landlord/tenant detective fiction?

 

But sadly there's one hole. Registered letters have to be exchanged at some point. Or the bailiff has to deliver the court summons. Yellow envelope.

Of course the landlord could have forged signatures. In which case they depth of the the shit pile just doubled.

 

Yes, I would be interested in finding out how the landlord pulled it off that they never got any letters.  Sometimes reality is better than fiction.  IMO one of two things, either the landlord managed to somehow intercept all the letters from the court which I find hard to believe, especially if she says she was home a lot of the time or the other option, he may have taken law into his own hands and moved them out himself when he knew they weren't home and left a fake court letter with a number to call where a friend of his would give them some fake info.  However, whichever it was, their lawyer is working on it and there must be a paper trail if it was the real courts or if it wasn't the real courts, the landlord is in deep shit.

 

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1 hour ago, LeonG said:

home and left a fake court letter with a number to call where a friend of his would give them some fake info

 

I already asked about this in the thread, and the OP said she was not given the phone number, just the name of the person at the court who was handling the case.  She had to call the court after looking up their number and ask for the person the landlord named, so it does not sound possible that the court rep is a fake.

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Is it possible the OP was conned in the first place, and not renting from the owner of the flat, but from a tenant as a sub-tenant, without the landlords consent and without the OP's knowledge.

This would cover most of the holes in the story.

If the actual tenant (the person they thought they were renting from) has just done a runner, that would explain why they can't be contacted.

The real landlord has evicted that tenant not our OP, which is how they were able to get court papers delivered etc.

 

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1 hour ago, pappnase said:

Is it possible the OP was conned in the first place, and not renting from the owner of the flat, but from a tenant as a sub-tenant, without the landlords consent and without the OP's knowledge.

This would cover most of the holes in the story.

If the actual tenant (the person they thought they were renting from) has just done a runner, that would explain why they can't be contacted.

The real landlord has evicted that tenant not our OP, which is how they were able to get court papers delivered etc.

 

 

but wouldn't that be clear from the court paperwork?  ie  the papers would have been filed by the real landlord (not the main tenant) and they would have been filed against the main tenant, not the OP?  

 

and where did all the letters/notices end up?  I just can't imagine they would blindly send these to the main tenants address, then take action against different people at a different address, presumably with a bailiff present...it does seem plausible but not quite a slam dunk.

 

I am on tenterhooks waiting to find out what the hell this is about

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20 hours ago, SaarFrau said:

... and investigate how why the court signed off on the order as the situation is unheard of for him.

 

Has it been proven that a court has actually been involved or is it only the word of the landlord who may be spinning a yarn?

I would have thought this would be the first task of your laywer.

 

Has any "official" documentation actually turned up?

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2 hours ago, lisa13 said:

 

I already asked about this in the thread, and the OP said she was not given the phone number, just the name of the person at the court who was handling the case.  She had to call the court after looking up their number and ask for the person the landlord named, so it does not sound possible that the court rep is a fake.

 

Unless that particular person who works at the court is friends with the landlord and is doing him a favour although I think that's unlikely because people working at the court are probably beamte and wouldn't risk their jobs for something like that.

 

1 hour ago, pappnase said:

Is it possible the OP was conned in the first place, and not renting from the owner of the flat, but from a tenant as a sub-tenant, without the landlords consent and without the OP's knowledge.

This would cover most of the holes in the story.

If the actual tenant (the person they thought they were renting from) has just done a runner, that would explain why they can't be contacted.

The real landlord has evicted that tenant not our OP, which is how they were able to get court papers delivered etc.

 

 

Possible but wouldn't they notice that the "landlord" they had been dealing with is suddenly a different person from the one who phoned them after the eviction and said that they have their keys and possibly other property?  The plot thickens.  

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Hi everyone,

We got our stuff back yesterday from the storage company, we paid 1000 Euro to get it shipped to family of my husband. We're going through it at the moment. So far there's one broken lamp, and some pieces of jewelry from my jewelry box are missing. My husband said it would be hard to prove that we had the jewelry in the first place so I guess that it's lost? Which is sad for me because the pieces while expensive had a lot of sentimental value to me :( 

The rent contract also seems to be missing, but perhaps the jewelry and contract are hidden among the clothes. Some other electronic equipment are also missing. We will have gone through everything with a fine tooth comb by tomorrow evening and let you know what's missing. So we'd see what stuff we have missing in addition to what the landlord also took from the apartment and carried home with him.

 

 

6 hours ago, LeonG said:

Is it possible that your landlord intercepted the letters in order to make sure you couldn't defend yourself?  If not, you need to find out if your name and address is 100% correct by the court.  It is really unbelievable what happened.  Did you go to or call the court when you talked to this lady?  Do you have any type of paperwork from the court at all?  Is it possible that the landlord left you a fake letter from a court with a phone number of a friend who is lying for him claiming to be from the court?


Hi Leon, I have no idea if he intercepted the letters or not, or even sent any in the first place. We called the court lady, we never got any letter or anything from the landlord. When we reached home and were locked out, we called the landlord and he was very hostile with my husband, barely let him speak, just gave him the name of the lady and hung up. We have no paperwork from the court at all, at least not yet, this coming week we'll be getting that as the lady told us. 

 

 

5 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

Registered letters have to be exchanged at some point. Or the bailiff has to deliver the court summons. Yellow envelope.

Of course the landlord could have forged signatures. In which case they depth of the the shit pile just doubled.


Hi MadAxe, he could do that?! I know about the "dreaded yellow envelop" haha.
But I guess since we never got anything, it just looked like we ignored him/court and they had no choice but to resort to these measures. Not sure why they didn't go to my husband's place of work though. 

 

5 hours ago, naberlin said:

Following this with great interest, please keep us posted.  

 

Hi Naber, will do.

 

 

2 hours ago, pappnase said:

Is it possible the OP was conned in the first place, and not renting from the owner of the flat, but from a tenant as a sub-tenant, without the landlords consent and without the OP's knowledge.


Hi Papp, just thinking about that being a possibility is frightening.
But the court lady told us that the eviction came from the landlord and gave us his name, so he is indeed the landlord. She said that due to us missing one month's rent he wanted us out which breeches the rent contract but he was allowed to get the eviction anyway it seems.

 

1 hour ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

However, it would not explain their constant problems with the Daueraufträge.


Hi Answers, my husband explained to me that I mixed up the translations, as for me everything is a called a "standing order" but in Germany its Daueraufträge which is not what we had with Vodafone apparently. What we had with Vodafone was called Lastschrifteinzugbut and when we began having issues with that and sometimes with Amazon due to the bank saying they had server issues we got tired and decided to just go in every month and pay everything directly which he told me is Überweisung. And when we made Amazon purchases we just bought cards to prevent any mix ups.

So with using the Überweisung since earlier this year, the April rent according to the landlord was never received, but on Friday when we went to the bank we were told the money did leave our account and they will double check to see if the landlord's account did receive it.

Sorry for the translation mix-ups, why are there so many words for essentially the same thing :blink:

 

1 hour ago, HEM said:

 

Has it been proven that a court has actually been involved or is it only the word of the landlord who may be spinning a yarn?

I would have thought this would be the first task of your laywer.

Has any "official" documentation actually turned up?

 

Hi HEM, well the fact that we called the court lady at the court itself and she told us to go call the landlord make arrangements to pay him his money and whatever his lawyer fees are and that the court will bill us separately for court fees and storage fees is proof of their involvement. The lawyer is working on finding the paper trail, but these things will take a few days. Hopefully by the end of next week we'll have more knowledge of the situation. And no, no "official" documentation has shown up, we should be getting a bill from the court soon.

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Even if the landlord has stolen and disposed of the rental contract. You have a record of paying rent from your bank account. Hopefully you wrote rent or Miete, not just hello in the Verwednungszweck.

 

As for the bank failing to do payments. That cannot be. If something goes wrong they have to work mightily to fix it. It would be like a restaurant saying they have problems with their cookers so can't serve food, or a bus company having problems with their engines so can't drive passengers!

 

This court lady is not your friend and is not impartial. She should have been asking how a landlord stole all your possessions without an eviction order and how you have had no contact with the court. Instead of telling you to pay the landlord and court fees. If she really did that she will be fired for mis-conduct, and probably fined, even jailed. Germany is a very straight country with almost no corruption at this level. Not because Germany are super honest but because the penalties are way higher than the gain. Although Germans do also take a very dim view of corruption!

 

There are so many things here that just simply cannot happen that have happened to you.

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indeed it's very strange that he may have stolen the mietvertrag as in that case, you'd be subject to default law about rental agreements (not unfavorable at all) so I don't think you have anything to worry about there.  

 

The fact that he took steps to evict them shows they were indeed living there regardless of what the bank records show,.  This will be very hard to wiggle out of: "no I never rented to those people, I just evicted them because they missed a payment last april" ;) 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

Even if the landlord has stolen and disposed of the rental contract. You have a record of paying rent from your bank account. Hopefully you wrote rent or Miete, not just hello in the Verwednungszweck.

There are so many things here that just simply cannot happen that have happened to you.


HI MadAxe, no we wrote "Miete" each time. They didn't fail to do payments, its more like when Vodafone and Amazon tried to pull money from the account, the money was pulled but never reached their accounts and so the bank would reimburse us and also pay the late fees attached. They said they were having problems with their servers, but problems were just reoccurring too much for my liking so I just went back 'old school' style banking. 

And yea our entire situation just seems impossible as even back in the Caribbean these things cannot happen. If they can't delivery registered mail to your house they will find you on your work and give it to you, embarrassing but at least you'd be notified.

 

 

4 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

indeed it's very strange that he may have stolen the mietvertrag as in that case, you'd be subject to default law about rental agreements (not unfavorable at all) so I don't think you have anything to worry about there.  


Hi Lisa, I guess, but the lawyer wanted a copy of it, so it was one of the first things we began looking for when we got our stuff back.

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11 minutes ago, SaarFrau said:

They said they were having problems with their servers,

This to me (as an ancient computer scientist) plain bulls**t.

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1 minute ago, HEM said:

This to me (as an ancient computer scientist) plain bulls**t.


Hi HEM, I thought so too but similar issues also happened to a few of our friends who also bank with the same bank so I believed them, but it had become too ridiculous so I have been looking at other banks as options. Any recommendations? 

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SaarFrau, one recommendation, get safe deposit box in a bank. The size is somewhat larger than DIN A4, height from 3cm to 20cm.

You can put contracts, insurance stuff, gold and silver into the boxes and you can sure that even in the case of a fire or an landlord disguised as a thief, you still have access to the original documents. Depending on the size it should cost between 50 and 100€ a year.

https://www.test.de/Bankschliessfach-Was-Miete-und-Versicherung-fuer-den-privaten-Safe-kosten-4812425-4812431/

 

If you don't know the difference between standing order and direct debit : https://www.deutscheskonto.org/en/account/current/

What is not mentioned is that in case of a direct debit you can ask the bank to book the money back within 8 weeks should something be wrong.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SaarFrau said:

the court lady told us that the eviction came from the landlord and gave us his name

OK Bang goes my theory. Good luck.

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