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Homeopathy and physics

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Adding my 2 cents:  I am very sceptical of homeopathy and have had my share of quackery,  However, I also feel that medical doctors are also often quacks,  There are so many common and serious illnesses that medical doctors simply write off because they don't have a pill for it.  The perfect example is restless legs syndrome.  in the 90's doctors would tell you there was no such thing.  It was all in your head. Stop bothering me.  Then along comes Requip and all of a sudden doctors act as if they knew all along that it really was a serious problem.  Here, take this pill.  

 

Lyme disease, Chronic Fatigue, and any number of other disorders are laughed at by the medical communiiy because THEY have failed to find a cure, treatment, or reliable tests to prove that someone has that condition.  The Internet is full of sites where people with serious medical conditions desparately look for help and whose biggest problem is being taken seriously by the medical community.  Of course they turn to homeopaths.  

 

My experience with homeopaths is that probably 60% of what they tried on me didn't work.  The problem was that I had otherwise good doctors that also had some quacky ideas.  Not just bad doctors.  I still meet some treatments with a great deal of skepticism, however I cannot deny that there have also been some homeopathic treatments that have clearly worked where the medical doctors have failed.  Other treatments cost me a lot of money and did nothing.  

 

As far as scientific testing is concerned, there I am also skeptical about the medical community.  There are fortunes to be made by proving that a particular medicine can cure or treat a particular ailment, but who is going to pay for very expensive testing of a plant or a diet?  Where is the money to be made on that?  I hear that none of the homeopathic treatments have been proven.  Have they ever been tested?  And by whom?  

 

However. if I had a serious condition like cancer, I would never exclusively rely on homeopaths.  

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2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Please take some chemistry and physics class before saying things like that with so much confidence. There is even no point in refuting what you are saying, because you fail to grasp basic physics concepts.

 

Gracious now you're resorting to insulting me because you cannot accept criticism of your highly criticisable attitude. 

Please identify the basic physics concept I fail to grasp. I'm quite proud of my physics knowledge, less so of my chemical. To wit I think you're bullshitting

 

Regarding anti matter it is indeed true that scientists are experimenting with anti hydrogen to see if it has the same gravitational behaviour as hydrogen. For the record anti hydrogen has a nucleus of 2 up antiquarks and 1 down antiquark with one positron. They are unable to experiment even with anti deuterium (which would have an extra anti neutron of 1 up antiquark and 2 down antiquarks) so they're a long way from anti arsenic. But all evidence and theory suggest that anti matter behaves exactly as matter except for the charge.

 

However I made it clear I was talking about absence of arsenic, not anti matter, so all this anti matter is just a distraction.

 

Regarding general relativity, you can criticse my physics history but not my physics. I grant you the point that I was wrong about when general relativity was first confirmed.

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Mods, why did you rename the thread? I only used homeopathy as an example. Not my fault how the thread has developed.

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3 minutes ago, pmd said:

Mods, why did you rename the thread? I only used homeopathy as an example. Not my fault how the thread has developed.

The title should reflect what the thread is about, which changes over time.

TT threads have a habit of taking the long way around, turning left at the traffic lights or even deciding that Scarborough was not such a great holiday destination, let's go to Skegness instead.

And on the waqy, no, maybe Aberdeen is better?

 

It's like having a kid, you try to give it a good start, make sure it is doing ok, stays on track and then life comes along and laughs at you..

You may have heard of that poster that says there are no stupid questions, well on TT that is wrong, there are stupid questions, but far, far, far more stupid answers to those and other questions.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

 

Gracious now you're resorting to insulting me because you cannot accept criticism of your highly criticisable attitude. 

Please identify the basic physics concept I fail to grasp. I'm quite proud of my physics knowledge, less so of my chemical. To wit I think you're bullshitting

1) you assume anti-arsenic can exist

2) you assume anti-arsenic has opposite properties

3) you assume anti-arsenic will somehow interact positively, instead of the expected outcome (KABOOM!)

4) The worst: you confuse chemistry with some sort of clay decalcs, where atoms/molecules leave a "form" in "liquid crystal water". That is not how chemistry works and if you can't even understand it, we have no common ground for discussion. What is that "memory"?

 

And the burden of proof is on you, not on me. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so it is not my job to prove you wrong, it is your job to prove it is real.

 

30 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

However I made it clear I was talking about absence of arsenic, not anti matter, so all this anti matter is just a distraction.

Ok

 

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10 hours ago, trr said:

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

The homeopathic method is based on the application of the principle of therapeutic similitude (similia similibus curentur), using medicines that cause effects similar to the symptoms of disease in order to stimulate the reaction of the organism against disturbances. Such vital, homeostatic or paradoxical reaction of the organism can be scientifically explained on the basis of the rebound effect of modern drugs.

Wow, the nerve! So now homeopaths claim results from scientifically proven methods because they came up with a principle that encompasses them?? Is homeopathy claiming vaccination as its own discovery?

This is a shameful attempt to gain credibility by claiming these medical advances (hey, even vaccines fit here!) are a result of their quackery theories!

 

Or, to make it more simple, if all cats are mammals, it does not mean that all mammals are cats. But that is what is claimed by your post!

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3 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

Lyme disease, Chronic Fatigue, and any number of other disorders are laughed at by the medical communiiy because THEY have failed to find a cure, treatment, or reliable tests to prove that someone has that condition.  The Internet is full of sites where people with serious medical conditions desparately look for help and whose biggest problem is being taken seriously by the medical community.  Of course they turn to homeopaths.  

Of course?

 

If at this moment there is no treatment, then there is no treatment. You simply live your life and die, that's it. A couple of posts ago I provided an example what the doctors do when they get untreatable disease themselves.

 

If you turn to homeopaths instead you will die anyway, but also waste that little time that you have on bullshit "treatment".

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10 hours ago, gaberlunzi said:

It is more about money than anything else!

Leeches were still used when I was a kid.

I am perfectly ok to pay money to pharma industry for not using leeches. Disgusting.

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53 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I'd love to comment but this thread has become too scientific for me. :blink:

It is the same bullshit as before using some words from physics. Just random words combined into sentences. Sounds like science for a layman, but is pure nonsense.

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43 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

1) you assume anti-arsenic can exist

2) you assume anti-arsenic has opposite properties

3) you assume anti-arsenic will somehow interact positively, instead of the expected outcome (KABOOM!)

4) The worst: you confuse chemistry with some sort of clay decalcs, where atoms/molecules leave a "form" in "liquid crystal water". That is not how chemistry works and if you can't even understand it, we have no common ground for discussion. What is that "memory"?

 

And the burden of proof is on you, not on me. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so it is not my job to prove you wrong, it is your job to prove it is real.

 

Ok

 

1: Theoretcial physics backs me up on that one

2: No I mis-labelled the absence of arsenic as anti-arsenic, and in the next sentence clarified I had done so. You have the brains to understand that so you're deliberately mis-interpreting

3: I didn't and I don't. Anti-arsenic doesn't have to meet arsenic to explode. Hydrogen will do just fine, even an electron. But see point 2

4: Not chemistry. Crystal formation has nothing to do with chemistry. The entire semi conductor industry is based around crystals being shaped by impurities. And solid crystals do indeed exhibit impurity memory.

 

Your hypothesis is that homeopathy is absolute nonsense. Which is ok, it might well be.

And that your colleagues deserve to be insulted and ridiculed for having faith in it. Which is completely unacceptable.

 

I didn't set out to prove homeopathy. I set out to demonstrate your close minded, unscientific attitude is unacceptable in a scientist.

If you were simply a religious freak I'd have left well alone.

 

@pmd I changed the title. Maybe I should have changed it to "Two self proclaimed geeks waving their dicks" but I uncharacteristically chose diplomacy. Sorry if you feel your thread has been hijacked, but shit happens.

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Nota bene, my mom spends her vacation time going to places where she can drink mineral water from the source. Somehow the water you can buy in supermarket doesn't contain proper minerals, so she goes to drink water to some nice places.

 

It was a very popular treatment 100 years ago, so if going to the roots and using water for treatment I would recommend this way. Does no harm and nobody promises you anything.

 

Were in Germany you can do this? In Baden Baden, maybe? In Czech republic I saw mineral water fountains in Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad), some people were using them. Formerly such places attracted thousands of people, like Mallorca today.

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1 hour ago, yourkeau said:

I am perfectly ok to pay money to pharma industry for not using leeches. Disgusting.

Me too. But.. when you have no other choice, leeches had to do.

 

Reminds me, we still have a lot of leeches around.

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11 minutes ago, Marianne013 said:

@yourkeau: Are you sure she doesn't just insist on going in person, so she can acquire a "Kurschatten" ?  :-)

Haha, maybe. But as a side effect only: she does think drinking this water makes her feel better. Well, it's definitely more fun than buying minerals in the Apotheke and consuming them at home.

 

7 minutes ago, gaberlunzi said:

Me too. But.. when you have no other choice, leeches had to do.

 

Reminds me, we still have a lot of leeches around.

Yep. Have nothing against Volksmedizin in poor countries where access to proper health care may be limited. Then people's knowledge works, at least against non-infectious diseases.

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Speaking of healing water. Have you ever heard of pfarrer Kneip?

Have you ever heard of the German saying: der Glaube kann Berge versetzen?

Have you ever heard some seeds can heal cancer, some cyanide compound contained in the kernel being the wonder drug. cyanide by itself is highly poisonous.

I would not dismiss natural homeopathy off hands either. Charlatans can be found anywhere.

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8 minutes ago, gaberlunzi said:

Have you ever heard some seeds can heal cancer, some cyanide compound contained in the kernel being the wonder drug. cyanide by itself is highly poisonous.

Well, I've heard cyanide can cure any problem! Especially in large dosage, but the side effects are quite bad :)

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