Moving my UK pension contributions to a German scheme After April 6 2017

[pappnase 2,578]

In the wake of Brexit, I can see the value of my UK pension pot getting smaller and smaller in real-terms, and I'm getting a bit worried.

Anyone got any up-to date information on a good pension scheme to which I can transfer my UK contributions without losing 40% to the UK tax-man?

 

I looked on the UK gov website for information regarding transfers and I found this:-

The requirements to be a recognised overseas pension scheme (ROPS) changed from 6 April 2017.

Which seems to suggest that any of the older threads might be a bit out of date.

[pappnase 2,578]

In the wake of Brexit, I can see the value of my UK pension pot getting smaller and smaller in real-terms as the pound drops against the Euro, and I'm getting a bit worried.

Anyone got any up-to date information on a good pension scheme to which I can transfer my UK contributions without losing 40% to the UK tax-man?

 

I looked on the UK gov website for information regarding transfers and I found this:-

The requirements to be a recognised overseas pension scheme (ROPS) changed from 6 April 2017.

Which seems to suggest that any of the older threads might be a bit out of date.

[Gambatte 900]

Private pension or state one?

I think state contributions cannot be transferred.

 

Private ones yes they can be moved. However, most financial advisers would tell you such transfer schemes do not exist. In reality: yes, these schemes do exist, but these advisers are either unaware, or they do not "trade" them, so they just don't bother. Just my experience.

 

I heard the pot must be larger, say >100k, for the transfer to make sense, otherwise lose too much in fees etc.

 

Good luck.

[Gwaptiva 7,116]

State pension entitlement is not transferrable.

Private pension contribution transfer is subject to HMRC approval

[Gambatte 900]

Or you could  consider exactly the opposite approach.

Because the pounds has lost so much, moving right now is exactly the worst thing to do. If you were prepared to wait 5-10yr you probably get a better deal... just my guess.

[Starshollow 6,069]

@pappnase : while there were some drastic changes to the ROPS rules and regulations following the new budget plans in April, there has not much changed for residents of Germany. As long as you are living within the EU (and don't move outside the EU then for a number of years) you can still do a full (Q)ROPS transfer to a German scheme or one of another EU memberstate (like MALTA for instance, but not Gibraltar or the Channel Islands from my understanding) with out the 25% tax charges that are now being applied to all (Q)ROPS transfers outside the EU.

 

The list of applicable(Q)ROPS-schemes has also dwindled a lot... but that is not a bad thing per se.  Here in Germany there is still the "Alte Leipziger" which offers excellent pension tariffs (even so-called "Netto-Tarife", i.e. without commission costs for you, which allow for fee-based advice..and allowing for interesting passive investment funds like a number of ETFs and even funds from DIMENSIONAL FUND ADVISORS, which is the best passive investment on the market in my professional opinion). 

 

You'll definitely need a good and experienced advisor for the entire process...if it is a German advisor, he/she also needs to have a network in the UK so that the TVAS ( transfer value analysis) can be done by an independent advisor specially licensed for this in the UK.

Pls be very careful when being approached by some of the many bad seeds in this market who all advertise hugely left and right their"services" for QROPS transfers. The number of malpractice cases in this area is a legend, thousands have lost huge amounts of money due to not disclosed and overly expensive upfront commissions plus ongoing commissions and kickbacks from the investment funds. Also, more often than not, investments not really suitable for pension planning like "autocallable notes" (which are very risky derivatives that always have the inherent risk of a 100% capital loss) have been sold in the process of QROPS advice in the past. 

As you can see, the British FCA finally started to get down and dirty with several of the main contenders on the market (DeVere was one of the first to lose their eligibility to do TVAS by order of the FCA): http://www.international-adviser.com/news/1035194/fca-stops-pension-transfers-advice-firms

 

So, in a nutshell: yes, it is still possible for you. You need professional advice, though, to get this done. Please look in your own interest only for fee-based advice to this regards that disallows any commission payments to the advisor. And get that in writing...

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.

[Gambatte 900]

Last time I posted onto a QROPS thread in this forum, years ago, an hour later I got a call here at my workplace from someone who wanted to "sell" me a QROP scheme.

How they got my name and number is beyond me.

Maybe was it just a coincidence...?

[pappnase 2,578]

Its a Private Pension, it was company related, but now independent of the company.

The whole point of this thread is to find someone who knows the new rules because HMRC no longer publish lists of QROPS.

 

Regarding the 'wait and see' approach, I might still consider that, but it's 20 years worth of contributions and yes it's more than 100K.

 

I don't trust either the UK or German governments not to change the rules again after Brexit,  so I want to start to understand my options.

 

 

[pappnase 2,578]

Thanks Starshollow, that's reassuring.

 

 

RE: Professional advice. Because of your hard work here over many years I was already aware of some of the 'bad seeds' you mention and I'll be sure to avoid them.  

 

At the moment I'm just trying to get a feel for other peoples experiences but once i move to the next stage I'll be looking for a fee based adviser :).

 

 

[mrloop 13]

I'm in a similar situation with a couple of UK based funds, wondering what to do and faced with the dilemma of currency exchange loss now or wait to see if the exchange rate recovers. The comments from Starshollow are interesting.  Is there anyone here who has made a ROPS transfer and willing to share their experiences?

[Starshollow 6,069]

13 hours ago, mrloop said:

I'm in a similar situation with a couple of UK based funds, wondering what to do and faced with the dilemma of currency exchange loss now or wait to see if the exchange rate recovers. The comments from Starshollow are interesting.  Is there anyone here who has made a ROPS transfer and willing to share their experiences?

 

Chances are, that a lot of people have "experience", but not a good one. Some pyramid-structure-sales-companies (who call themselves IFAs, but are nothing like that at all) have pounced on this in the past years with vengeance and (mis)sold millions upon millions of QROPS transfers.  There are, however, a few good financial advisors in most countries, who did and still do a decent job.

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.

[chikina 1]

Hi all,

 

I am in a similar situation - wanting to transfer my UK pension to a private one in Germany. Was someone actually able to accomplish that, and if yes - which fund did you use?

 

Many thanks in advance

[Starshollow 6,069]

if you are talking about Defined Benefit Scheme (DB)  or a Defined Contribution Scheme (DC) or even a SIPP, then yes - this is possible, works and is a means-tested process.  there is at least 1 excellent German pension insurance company that is fully QROPS-compliant and can be used as a destination for such a transfer. And while a lot of very bad "offshore" products have been sold by snakeoil-salesmen to unsuspecting Expats in the past 10 years or so, there are actually a few good plans available that are commission free and very transparent in costs on Malta, for instance. 

Whether a transfer to Germany or Malta is better for you depends on many different factors and your personal goals and wishes. Since you'll need a financial advisor anyway in order to get the transfer processed, you might as well get in touch with an independent, strictly fee-based advisor right from the beginning in order to determine if a transfer is really the best idea for you? And if so, where to the transfer should go in order to be in line with your wishes and goals.

https://www.crcie.com/financial-advice/qrops-transfers-germany/

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.