Is it a good idea to buy a Diesel Euro 4 car now

50 posts in this topic

I know Alana loves her car but to be honest how much is an 11 year old diesel now worth?

There comes a time when you have to look at economics and say "enough's enough, it's just not worth throwing more money at it."

She seems to be hoping that the government will come up with something that she doesn't have to pay for.

As others have said, there are government sponsored schemes to give great trade-in allowances which I think she should consider.

 

Basically the choices are, I believe, to throw lots more money into the car (sorry, money pit) or get a new(er) one.

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1 hour ago, Malt-Teaser said:

"it failed the emissions part of the test. Here in DE, as you should know, we have those little coloured stickers on the windscreen; green, yellow & red. ... Basically the TÜV confirmed that this car should have yellow, not green.

 

The 'friend' mechanic discovered the chipping, not the TÜV people."

 

Malt,

You are spot on! And yes I failed the emissions part of the test.. or did they UP the default numbers so all diesel's automatically fail (skeptic)?
And only after my mechanic told me the car had been "re-chipped" (is it only /simply a re-chipping..*?) He highlighted the sentence on my Schein that clearly states this..obviously it was figured out by the Zulassungsstelle when the title was transferred... comparing the old vs. new Schein, and the 132KW vs. 150KW.   *When asked if he could revert the car back to 132, he said that could cost thousands.   he also mentioned, every 5 years one has to change the catalytic converter...   thank you !!     

 

signed... flabbergasted

   

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

Is it technically possible to convert a Diesel to a LPG powered car? I did that with my old petrol fueled Toyota and it paid for itself within 4 years.

 

Pretty sure it's petrol only for LPG conversions.

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Can someone explain, why diesel in the first place? I can understand trucks, vans being diesel, but everyday car???... If someone tells it's more economical I would ask how much you spent on your long life oil, new turbo, failed pump or injectors? How much you actually save per year if you only commute to shop and work? All repairs on diesel engines are more complicated, so much bigger bills compared to petrol. So why? Unless it's almost new car...

 

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16 minutes ago, home less said:

Can someone explain, why diesel in the first place? I can understand trucks, vans being diesel, but everyday car???... If someone tells it's more economical I would ask how much you spent on your long life oil, new turbo, failed pump or injectors? How much you actually save per year if you only commute to shop and work? All repairs on diesel engines are more complicated, so much bigger bills compared to petrol. So why? Unless it's almost new car...

 

 

It all depends on how long your commute is - and Germany allows you to have long commutes. If it is long, a diesel car will end up being more economical to run than a petrol. 

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12 hours ago, home less said:

Can someone explain, why diesel in the first place? ... If someone tells it's more economical I would ask how much you spent on your long life oil, new turbo, failed pump or injectors?

In 2006 I bought a diesel 2002 VW Golf IV Variant.  It used about 5l/100km, the equivalent petrol car used 9l/100km.  I averaged 20000km/year I kept that car for 10 years.  Estimating diesel prices at 1.175€/l and petrol prices at 1.325€/l (some numbers I just grabbed off the net), that means I spent roughly 11750€ on diesel, that would have been 23850€ on petrol.  So I saved 12100€ on fuel prices over 10 years.  I spent roughly 2000€ total on oil/parts/repairs over those 10 years.

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On 17/03/2018, 08:38:56, Malt-Teaser said:

phranco,,   

You really did the math homework.. bravo for you and for your trusty long-running diesel.  
Alana

  

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Malt, you said:

"The 'friend' mechanic discovered the chipping, not the TÜV people"
 

It was the mechanic who discovered on my Auto Brief the note stating this alteration.   Happened when the car was new..
Yesterday received a ticket and warning on my car I can no longer drive her and she has to move off the street.. so in real dilemma here and I know.. dumm me for not taking care of it earlier.  But it's a vicious cycle - Car can't pass TUV--> Get particle filter €1,000+  --> Particle filter may not work --> und so weiter.
A-pain-in-the-tuckos this is.

 

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Why can't the car pass the TÜV?

A car only will have to fulfill the requirements valid when the car was registered the first time.

I have a 20 year old Diesel Alfa Romeo. (Just passed the TÜV) Red plakette - which I removed since it lookes ugly. I would recommend you to do the same with your yellow? one.

I thought chip tuning only meant that other control parameters are downloaded into the CPU?

If you don't have to drive into a controlled town to often, just do it. If they get you you have to pay 80€. Cheaper than a new car.

Every now and the I also do it and only park the car in garages.

I still have the possibility to take my "town" car. An 8 cylinder Maserati. No NOx, no particulate matter - only power.

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On 8/10/2017, 5:58:23, yourkeau said:

First of all, here is a map of the cities with Umweltzonen:

http://gis.uba.de/website/umweltzonen/index.html

 

At the moment no other city plans to introduce Umweltzone, but I expect Hamburg and Nuremberg to do so, because these are the only major cities without any environment zone.

 

The Blaue Plakette will require Euro 6 or higher, at the moment only Stuttgart and Munich are discussing the possibility to convert current green Euro 4 zone into blue Euro 6. If you think of the next decade, one can expect all cities with green zone to introduce blue zone.

 

If you remember the history of Umweltzones you remember that most zones were initially yellow (Euro 3), Neu Ulm is the last city in Germany which is still yellow. The transition process will most probably be slow.

 

That being said, all the cities with environment zones have decent public transportation and P+R parkings, so you won't lose much should you ever be banned from entering those cities. I for one park on Olympiastadion when in Munich because looking for inner city parking is such a pain in the ass.

 

 

Sorry, just curious. Does this mean my gasoline (petrol) Euro 4 car (Skoda Fabia 2006) might soon be banned from Frankfurt? Or, is this all just about Diesels?

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7 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

 

 

Sorry, just curious. Does this mean my gasoline (petrol) Euro 4 car (Skoda Fabia 2006) might soon be banned from Frankfurt? Or, is this all just about Diesels?

 

Mostly about diesels, but there's also talk about petrol engines with direct injection (I'm guessing that would be the TSI models for Skoda)

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Direct injection is more efficient and environmentally friendly, no? Or, do you mean ONLY direct injection gasoline cars will be allowed in to centers, probably?

 

Anyway, we plan on selling this on this year anyway, and getting a slightly bigger one.

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Gasoline direct injection cars produce more soot than Diesel cars with a PM filter.

If they really want to reduce PM in town they should also ban DI cars without filter.

If you want to be on the save side buy an American V8 - e.g. Ford Mustang

 

PS

Also wood heatings emit a lot of particulate matter and NOx, definitely more that a gas or oil heating burner.

In future you will not be alloed to drive with your pellet heating into the city of Stuttgart.

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2 hours ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

Direct injection is more efficient and environmentally friendly, no? Or, do you mean ONLY direct injection gasoline cars will be allowed in to centers, probably?

 

Anyway, we plan on selling this on this year anyway, and getting a slightly bigger one.

 

It's more efficient and has lower CO2 emissions, but higher particulate matter. This can easily be solved by adding particulate filters (some new cars already have them)

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I am planning on leasing a new car and I am kind of confused about whether I get a diesel one or a petrol. The car I am interested in comes with both types of engine (diesel and petrol), but the fuel efficiency of the diesel one is far better than its counterpart. So from an economics point of view, diesel car comes out as cheap and hence I am more inclined towards it. The leasing contract is going to be of three years (it's a company car leasing program).

 

Now on the other hand, when I hear about these discussions on the German radio about banning diesel car, I get kind of scared! I live near Dusseldorf (work in Leverkusen) and go with family quite often (almost every weekend) to Dusseldorf city center.

 

Now my question is would all types of diesel cars are (or will be) banned from, for example, Dusseldorf city center? Or is it some that do not meet a certain emission criteria, Euro 4? If it is not a complete ban on all types of diesel cars, then what exactly is the border line (technical definition) that I need to check in the diesel car I am targeting to get?

 

In general, I am kind of very surprised and unclear about the future of those diesel cars, which are already on the roads. A colleague of mine got the same diesel car last year, which I am targeting, but he is not very much bothered and have not much info about the regulation as he is not living around Dusseldorf.      

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55 minutes ago, sbutt said:

Now my question is would all types of diesel cars are (or will be) banned from, for example, Dusseldorf city center? Or is it some that do not meet a certain emission criteria, Euro 4?

 

There has been an Umweltzone in effect in Düsseldorf since 2009 which has been expanded several times since. The present requirement, no matter whether the vehicle is petrol or diesel powered, is that it must have a Grünplakette. There are signs around the limits of the area which are white with the word ZONE with a green sticker symbol.

 

You can download a PDF of the zone map from here The issue with diesel is two-fold. The plan is to reduce the NOx (Stickstoff) and the Feinstaub (fine particle) emissions. Currently Euro 4 is the standard but, whenever the German auto industry finally get their collective finger out, there is bound to be a new lower emissions standard.

 

IME, of the motor trade in DE since1984, I'd expect that to take at least 5 - 8 years though so you should be fine for the period you're talking about.

 

FYI : Already this year the city has issued 74000 penalty tickets to people for driving into the Umweltzone without a green sticker.

 

2B

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Thanks, 2B_orNot2B for your answer.

My current car, which is a petrol one has this green sticker with EURO 4 mark, since 4 year (the time i moved to Dusseldorf), so no problem there. But for the diesel cars, my understanding is that with this new regulation (perhaps already introduced in Hamburg and in Dusseldorf a few weeks ago), the emission standard introduced is EURO 6 - isn't it correct? And if not, what is this new regulation for the diesel cars introduced then? And if EURO 6 is correct, how can we insure that a diesel car is capable of fulfilling it? 

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2 hours ago, sbutt said:

But for the diesel cars, my understanding is that with this new regulation (perhaps already introduced in Hamburg and in Dusseldorf a few weeks ago), the emission standard introduced is EURO 6 - isn't it correct? And if not, what is this new regulation for the diesel cars introduced then? And if EURO 6 is correct, how can we insure that a diesel car is capable of fulfilling it? 

 

Sorry, @sbutt I see in my previous post I had written something to confuse the issue.

This is what I'd meant to say...

 

3 hours ago, 2B_orNot2B said:

Currently Euro 4 is the minimum standard but, whenever the German auto industry finally get their collective finger out, there is bound to be a new lowest emissions standard.

 

And you are right about the new vehicle emission standard, but not just for diesel powered ones. Since 15 September 2015 all new petrol or diesel cars and light vans sold in Germany must meet the EURO 6 Norm. Which means you've no reason to worry about any new car fulfilling the current emissions standard requirements.

 

Currently the Federal Environment Office - Umwelt Bundesamt (UBA) recommend...

 

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Benziner oder Diesel? Gas- oder Elektroantrieb? Was die umweltfreundlichste Variante ist, lässt sich nicht pauschal beantworten. Wenn man sich ab September 2017 zum Kauf eines Diesel-Pkw entscheidet, rät das UBA dazu, dass das Neufahrzeug mindestens die Euro 6d-TEMP Abgasnorm einhält. Bei einem Benzinmotor mit Direkteinspritzung  genügt 6c sonst sogar 6b, so ist sichergestellt, dass auch die Partikelemissionen des Direkteinspritzers gering sind. Entscheidend ist immer eine genaue Betrachtung des Nutzungsprofils hinsichtlich Einsatzort (innerorts, außerorts, Autobahn) und jährlicher Laufleistung.

 

or, in other words....

 

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Petrol or diesel? Gas or electric drive? What is the most environmentally friendly variant cannot be answered across the board. If you decide to buy a diesel car from September 2017, UBA recommends that the new vehicle complies with at least the Euro 6d-TEMP emissions standard. With a direct-injection petrol engine, 6c is otherwise sufficient, ensuring that direct-injection particle emissions are also low. The decisive factor is always a precise consideration of the usage profile with regard to location (urban, extra-urban, motorway) and annual mileage

 

HTH

2B

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