Is it a good idea to buy a Diesel Euro 4 car now

[spaniard89 9]

Hello,

 

I was wondering if its a good idea to buy a Diesel car now in Germany, especially in Dusseldorf area.

I have been hearing a lot about Diesel car being banned in various parts of Germany.

Is it realistic to just ban Diesel car overnight? What would happen to all the Diesel cars that are on road after a ban is imposed?

 

Regards!

[El Jeffo 28,447]

There won't be a general ban, but bans on driving into cities (Berlin, Stuttgart, etc.) will definitely be forthcoming if no progress on reducing NOx emissions is made.

 

I'd strongly advise against buying any diesel vehicle at all right now, especially a Euro4 model that cannot ever be upgraded to meet the current standards.

[yesterday 138]

if you ignore the environmental concerns ....

 

Euro 4 Diesel cars have and will further depreciate...

 

If you do not need to go into the middle of the big cities very often, then you could save quite a bit of money by buying one and running it between the towns and villages, as they may never introduce a ban. Even the big cities may only ban diesel cars from the very central area.

 

However timing is critical to your decision

 

[Snowchief 115]

To further the question. With the current situation in mind, what about euro 5, 6? (having the next, let's say 7 years, in mind)

[yourkeau 6,469]

First of all, here is a map of the cities with Umweltzonen:

http://gis.uba.de/website/umweltzonen/index.html

 

At the moment no other city plans to introduce Umweltzone, but I expect Hamburg and Nuremberg to do so, because these are the only major cities without any environment zone.

 

The Blaue Plakette will require Euro 6 or higher, at the moment only Stuttgart and Munich are discussing the possibility to convert current green Euro 4 zone into blue Euro 6. If you think of the next decade, one can expect all cities with green zone to introduce blue zone.

 

If you remember the history of Umweltzones you remember that most zones were initially yellow (Euro 3), Neu Ulm is the last city in Germany which is still yellow. The transition process will most probably be slow.

 

That being said, all the cities with environment zones have decent public transportation and P+R parkings, so you won't lose much should you ever be banned from entering those cities. I for one park on Olympiastadion when in Munich because looking for inner city parking is such a pain in the ass.

[Alana 66]

Thanks for posting this ya'll.  I live on the outskirts of Stuggart btw.

I am in the midst of the diesel car dilemma (DCD for now). To be Umwelt /Plakette compliant, older diesel cars must install a partical filter (ca €1,000 +) in order to earn the correctly colored Plakette.

I've an 11 year old much loved Audi TDI 2,5 diesel which the original owner years ago changed the Motorsteuergerät (engine control unit) to up the power.. this raised my KW from 132 to 150 (HP from 175 to 200) which I had no clue about until TüV recently failed her.  When I purchased the car, my mechanic who checked it out had the car inspected for me and was a "go".  The new Tüv guy said I should have not passed and have been issued the yellow (3) Plakette! ! great. Currently:

•  They're saying the engine isn't compatible with a particle filter and the modified 150KW
•  My mechanic advised not to install one that TüV would then fail me on
• Mechanic also advised, I need to install a new Katalysator (Catalytic converter) every 5 years so it's time
• Tüv advised I could revert the KW back to original 132 which my mechanic told me could cost thousands --- (I heard this is just a "chip"..does anyone know?)
• Option is to just scrap the car or move somewhere without (so called?) pollution control

Now, I'm all for cleaner air, but something tells me planned obsolescence is at play here and I'm being forced to buy a new, compliant, mostly plastic, electronic car.
My question, does anyone have experience here or know a work-around?

Thank you so much...angry and confused
Alana

[El Jeffo 28,447]

Illegal modding = planned obsolescence?

 

Okay...

[Malt-Teaser 3,092]

Try talking to your insurance too.

Methinks another little shockette for you, either uninsured with this illegal mod or at best a larger insurance bill. MeSuspects uninsured purely as it's illegal.

[Alana 66]

oh no... hadn't even considered that... I'll ask my ins co.. thank you..  if it's illegal how did the Germans reissue my Fahrzeugbrief and not tell me I'm a bad girl?
It's clearly sated on the Brief/Schein that the engine was altered!!!  omg.. i'm screwed :-(

[Malt-Teaser 3,092]

I guess it's some good news that the alterations are documented and maybe, just maybe the modification was taken into consideration through the paperwork for the insurance, ask them.

I don't fully understand the TÜV situation, maybe it isn't a case of passing the HU (some call it TÜV) but passing the test for a green plaquette?

I suspect you may have to live with the yellow version and accept some town restrictions or swap it for another car as it seems to me that it isn't worth the upgrade cost, as much as you like the car.

[Alana 66]

Hallo Malt-T,

Thank you as well.. you're right.. I could live outside the green zone and keep doing what I do anyway.. try not driving into the city... oh my.. or maybe I just move to the country...then I need a tractor..

appreciate your input as well and TGIF!

[fraufruit 23,309]

I guess you'll have to figure in moving costs then and do the math. I've never heard of anyone moving because of a car but this diesel business is getting serious over here.

[someonesdaughter 2,090]

1 hour ago, Alana said:

Thanks for posting this ya'll.  I live on the outskirts of Stuggart btw.

I am in the midst of the diesel car dilemma (DCD for now). To be Umwelt /Plakette compliant, older diesel cars must install a partical filter (ca €1,000 +) in order to earn the correctly colored Plakette.

 

Yes, but that is not part of the diesel car dilemma of those days. Without the green Plakette you are banned from Stuttgart, Ludwigsburg, Kornwestheim, Reutlingen, Tübingen, Wendlingen, Mühlacker etc. for years already. 

 

The actual diesel car dilemma is about being banned even with a green Plakette and any Euro 4 and Euro 5 and possibly even with Euro 6 diesel engine and maybe (maybe!) introducing a new, blue Plakette for Euro 6d exclusively. 

 

1 hour ago, Alana said:

I've an 11 year old much loved Audi TDI 2,5 diesel which the original owner years ago changed the Motorsteuergerät (engine control unit) to up the power.. this raised my KW from 132 to 150 (HP from 175 to 200) which I had no clue about until TüV recently failed her. 

 

Failed what? The HU/AU? The chip tuning? The Plakette?

 

1 hour ago, Alana said:

 

When I purchased the car, my mechanic who checked it out had the car inspected for me and was a "go".  The new Tüv guy said I should have not passed and have been issued the yellow (3) Plakette! ! great. Currently:

•  They're saying the engine isn't compatible with a particle filter and the modified 150KW
•  My mechanic advised not to install one that TüV would then fail me on

 

Do you have TUEV (=HU/AU) now or not? 

 

1 hour ago, Alana said:

• Mechanic also advised, I need to install a new Katalysator (Catalytic converter) every 5 years so it's time
• Tüv advised I could revert the KW back to original 132 which my mechanic told me could cost thousands --- (I heard this is just a "chip"..does anyone know?)

 

It's chip tuning and it hardly costs thousand to revert it. I suggest you change your mechanic. 

 

1 hour ago, Alana said:

• Option is to just scrap the car or move somewhere without (so called?) pollution control

Now, I'm all for cleaner air, but something tells me planned obsolescence is at play here

 

All his has nothing to do with planned obsolescence and even getting a green Plakette will not save you from the bans that will be installed by September or so. Even with the green Plakette you must not drive to Stuttgart then. 

 

[someonesdaughter 2,090]

16 minutes ago, jaycool said:

Didn’t they extend the öko thing, in which you can trade in any diesel for a new/semi-new car and get several thousand bucks back?

 

Yep, not all brands do it but here's VW for example.

[Alana 66]

That would be kind of funny to move because I can't part with my beloved car...
Rather than put me thru the ringer, maybe since Stuttgart wants to mandate new laws, they should help me/my car become compliant vice

trying to F me.  ~  ~ S e u f z e r ~ ~

Truly grateful for the feedback everyone!
Alana

[Mackle 90]

21 hours ago, Alana said:

I've an 11 year old much loved Audi TDI 2,5 diesel which the original owner years ago changed the Motorsteuergerät (engine control unit) to up the power.. this raised my KW from 132 to 150 (HP from 175 to 200) which I had no clue about until TüV recently failed her.  When I purchased the car, my mechanic who checked it out had the car inspected for me and was a "go".  The new Tüv guy said I should have not passed and have been issued the yellow (3) Plakette! ! great. Currently:

•  They're saying the engine isn't compatible with a particle filter and the modified 150KW

 

Coming from the UK and the MoT test there I'm quite stunned at this, as the MoT would never pick up that a car had been chipped or remapped.

 

 

[BayrischDude 1,558]

I have an '90 VW T3 diesel.  As it is not economical (not the reason I bought it) I near always take the train when I need to go to Munich.  But I do worry about the future of being able to drive it.  My hope is that someone will invent an add-on that might help with emissions.  I don't ever want to get rid of it.

[Malt-Teaser 3,092]

1 hour ago, Mackle said:

 

Coming from the UK and the MoT test there I'm quite stunned at this, as the MoT would never pick up that a car had been chipped or remapped.

 

 

 

I don't believe it failed the TÜV (MoT), it failed the emissions part of the test. Here in DE, as you should know, we have those little coloured stickers on the windscreen; green, yellow & red. More cities are only allowing green ones to enter their boundaries. Basically the TÜV confirmed that this car should have yellow, not green.

 

The 'friend' mechanic discovered the chipping, not theTÜV people.

 

Or that's what I understand from the posts.

[jeba 1,862]

Is it technically possible to convert a Diesel to a LPG powered car? I did that with my old petrol fueled Toyota and it paid for itself within 4 years.

[Malt-Teaser 3,092]

I know Alana loves her car but to be honest how much is an 11 year old diesel now worth?

There comes a time when you have to look at economics and say "enough's enough, it's just not worth throwing more money at it."

She seems to be hoping that the government will come up with something that she doesn't have to pay for.

As others have said, there are government sponsored schemes to give great trade-in allowances which I think she should consider.

 

Basically the choices are, I believe, to throw lots more money into the car (sorry, money pit) or get a new(er) one.