Residence and work permits through marriage. How to prove I can work legally?

19 posts in this topic

Hi!

 

I am a Filipino citizen holding a residence permit which I got through my marriage to a German citizen. After I got my residence permit last year, we asked the Ausländerbehörde if I could work, and they said yes. They never gave me a separate sheet of document known as an Arbeitserlaubnis because they said the permit is granted automatically along with my Aufenthaltsgenehmigung. I have a part time job now and am paying taxes. 

 

I recently got hired on a mini-job basis and everything was ok, expect for the accountant of the company who has been insisting that I should produce an Arbeitsgenehmigung. I have heard that in some cities they do issue that, but in Mannheim they don't.

 

How do I prove that this is not needed anymore? Is there a document that really states that I need this permit?

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1 hour ago, jantigercat said:

Where can I find it? I have the card residence permit.

 

You should have also been issued a piece of paper (probably greenish) to go with the card.

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18 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

You should have also been issued a piece of paper (probably greenish) to go with the card.

 

My husband inquired at the Mannheim Ausländerbehörde about this extra green sheet and they said it's not needed because the residence permit automatically grants that permission. 

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10 hours ago, jantigercat said:

 

My husband inquired at the Mannheim Ausländerbehörde about this extra green sheet and they said it's not needed because the residence permit automatically grants that permission. 

 

Sure, I know that and they know that, however, how is an employer that is not familiar with immigration law supposed to know that!?!?!?!? :blink:

 

Does it say anywhere on your permit Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet or anything similar? If not, what does it EXACTLY say?

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Best way (Kind of a pain in the ass) would be to call them and just hand your phone to the employer so they can discuss about this.

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I recall they stopped issuing the greenish paper several years ago, when they switched to Aufenthaltstitel cards.  On the front of mine, under "Anmerkungen" it says "ERWERBSTÄTIGKEIT GESTATTET"  and then an additional number. So I guess if you have a work permit, then your card should have something like that

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On 7/13/2017, 7:20:05, engelchen said:

 

Sure, I know that and they know that, however, how is an employer that is not familiar with immigration law supposed to know that!?!?!?!? :blink:

 

Does it say anywhere on your permit Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet or anything similar? If not, what does it EXACTLY say?

 

Yes it is problematic. Under the Anmerkungen on my card it only states some kind of section of the law and then my passport number and then the validity of the card usage. Now the accountant is asking for the Erwestätigkeit gestattet so that I could work legally. 

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On Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2017, engelchen said:

Does it say anywhere on your permit Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet or anything similar? If not, what does it EXACTLY say?

 

1 hour ago, jantigercat said:

Under the Anmerkungen on my card it only states some kind of section of the law

 

*sigh*

@jantigercat

 

The reason @engelchen used bold type and upper case letters when she wrote EXACTLY was to make sure you understood that without that EXACT information nobody here could help you with your problem.

 

How d'you think anyone can help if all you can be bothered to write is 'some kind of section of the law' ?

 

2B

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So here it is: 

 

Anmerkungen

28 ABS. 1 S. 1 NR. 1

PASS (-ERSATZ)-NR. XXXXXXXXXX

PASS GÜLTIG BIS XX.XX.XXXX

KARTENNUTZUNG BIZ XX.XX.XXXX

 

(I came to Germany though marriage visa and was married (same-sex) with a German national by the way.)

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On 7/14/2017, 1:57:55, S.Golightly said:

I recall they stopped issuing the greenish paper several years ago

 

I sure as heck hope so...I used to keep mine in my passport, and I simply can't find it now.

 

Note I did get that with my renewal residence permit 2 years ago.  The thing is, I can't remember if they gave me a new one with my dauernaufenhaltstitel last year?

 

urgh

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13 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

I sure as heck hope so...I used to keep mine in my passport, and I simply can't find it now.

 

Note I did get that with my renewal residence permit 2 years ago.  The thing is, I can't remember if they gave me a new one with my dauernaufenhaltstitel last year?

 

urgh

 

Does in your new card state that you can work (Erwerbstätigkeit)?

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1 hour ago, jantigercat said:

Anmerkungen

28 ABS. 1 S. 1 NR. 1

PASS (-ERSATZ)-NR. XXXXXXXXXX

PASS GÜLTIG BIS XX.XX.XXXX

KARTENNUTZUNG BIZ XX.XX.XXXX

 

OK

That means...

Remarks

Section 28 Paragraph 1 Subparagraph 1 Number 1

Passport (-Replacement-)Number..

Passport valid until..

Card usability until...

 

The part within the red line on this screenshot is what that exact section of the law refers to. NB: the text should be read as a complete sentence picking up where it continues beneath the other Numbered sentences.

596a5ff582d4a_189-ActontheResidenceEcono

 

Source: Act on the Residence, Economic Activity and Integration of Foreigners in the Federal Territory (Residence Act which is the English translation of the AufenthG - FRG Residence Act in German

 

Having tried and failed for 25 minutes to find any linkage from that Section to any other Section which mentions employment I am at a loss as to what to suggest, for now at least. I am also nearly out of time to take care of more pressing matters of my own so I'll have to leave it to the much more capable and knowledgable @engelchen to solve.

 

2B

 

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55 minutes ago, jantigercat said:

 

Does in your new card state that you can work (Erwerbstätigkeit)?

 

yep, but I have permanent residency which is different from your case, as far as I can tell so far.

 

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1 hour ago, 2B_orNot2B said:

Having tried and failed for 25 minutes to find any linkage from that Section to any other Section which mentions employment I am at a loss as to what to suggest, for now at least.

 

 

 

Section 27, Subsection 5.

(5) Der Aufenthaltstitel nach diesem Abschnitt berechtigt zur Ausübung einer Erwerbstätigkeit.

DE / EN

(5) Residence titles issued pursuant to this Part shall entitle their holders to pursue an economic activity.

 

This applies to all residence titles issued unter Part 6, i.e. Sections 28 to 36, with Section 27 laying out general principles for such permits.

 

However, there's Section 4, Subsection 2, Sentence 2: Every residence title must indicate whether the pursuit of an economic activity is permitted. As such without it stated expressly one might want to clarify with the ABH whether the reference to " 28 ABS. 1 S. 1 NR. 1" is sufficient for such indication.

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14 hours ago, lisa13 said:

The thing is, I can't remember if they gave me a new one with my dauernaufenhaltstitel last year?

 

13 hours ago, jantigercat said:

 

Does in your new card state that you can work (Erwerbstätigkeit)?

 

A DA-EU is always with Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet. You have an AE that by law gives you the right to work, however, your right to work is not necessarily evident to employers. 

 

I had a similar problem a few years ago where my right to work (and without having to undergo a Vorrangprufüng) was not evident from the info on my Fiktionsbescheinigung. I argued with my Sachbearbeiterin until she sent me to her boss who issued me an extra paper (including a stamp) on which he explicitly wrote that I was allowed to work.

 

Go back and tell them it is unzumutbar to expect employers to understand the references on the permit and quote what Kato wrote above.

 

Good luck!

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Thank you @engelchen - I never needed that extra paper in the past, even when I switched jobs, as my permit card indicated I could work in very plain terms, but it's good to know what I should ask for if it turns into a problem with my next employer.

 

I was actually more worried that I had lost this paper, as I can't for the life of me remember if I got a new one with the DA-EU

 

egal :)

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On 7/15/2017, 9:56:07, kato said:

 

Section 27, Subsection 5.

(5) Der Aufenthaltstitel nach diesem Abschnitt berechtigt zur Ausübung einer Erwerbstätigkeit.

DE / EN

(5) Residence titles issued pursuant to this Part shall entitle their holders to pursue an economic activity.

 

This applies to all residence titles issued unter Part 6, i.e. Sections 28 to 36, with Section 27 laying out general principles for such permits.

 

However, there's Section 4, Subsection 2, Sentence 2: Every residence title must indicate whether the pursuit of an economic activity is permitted. As such without it stated expressly one might want to clarify with the ABH whether the reference to " " is sufficient for such indication.

 

12 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

 

A DA-EU is always with Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet. You have an AE that by law gives you the right to work, however, your right to work is not necessarily evident to employers. 

 

I had a similar problem a few years ago where my right to work (and without having to undergo a Vorrangprufüng) was not evident from the info on my Fiktionsbescheinigung. I argued with my Sachbearbeiterin until she sent me to her boss who issued me an extra paper (including a stamp) on which he explicitly wrote that I was allowed to work.

 

Go back and tell them it is unzumutbar to expect employers to understand the references on the permit and quote what Kato wrote above.

 

Good luck!

 

Thank you! I asked around here too and an accountant friend of mine referred me to the section on the law on Residence Permits. I am quite really astoinded that the accountant is quite "against" on hiring me because of her doubts about my status. lol. 

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