Oldest house in Bavaria demolished

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I was researching something else when I came across this article - in May, in Donauwörth, the oldest Bürgerhaus in Bavaria was demolished ahead of what will no doubt be a *very important development* which will benefit not just the town but the wider region, ushering in a new period of global peace and love. 

 

Or maybe not. Is nothing sacred? :angry::

 

http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/donauwoerth/Wagenknechthaus-Der-Abriss-hat-begonnen-id41362826.html

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This is how German bureaucracy works. The house was so old that authorities "forgot" to place it into Denkmalschutz.

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53 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

This is how German bureaucracy DON'T works. The house was so old that authorities "forgot" to place it into Denkmalschutz.

 

I think you left out the word "don't".  ;)

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I didn't. They just have their own definition of "work".

 

Where I live, we have a former factory from 1889, it is under Denkmalschutz and now is used as a medical clinic. The building looks from outside more or less like originally built, only a chimney was demolished.

 

At the same time there was a building from white sandstone from 18 century which was completely demolished. No Denkmalschutz? No idea, but it was way older than this factory, and it was demolished, new building was built in place.

 

This is how German bureaucracy "works". Yes.

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Oh, beautiful Bavaria. I got to see the house that my mom grew up in when I went years ago... she was surprised that it hadn't been torn down and built over. It was one of the neatest things I've ever seen.

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On 7/4/2017, 5:42:01, Taffthedigger said:

nothing sacred?

There are to many old houses/buildings. They need another war to make room for new houses.

The house I was born in and grew up in was built around 1400 and is ready for demolition as it can't be rebuilt where it is now.

It is in a flood plain and water every 20-30 years in the house won't improve it. I declined to claim it.

There are some houses the Romans and the Kelts lived in 2 000 years ago. The Roman's are still kept up but the Kelt's houses went with the times.

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The biggest problem is that it is cheaper to demolish the house than repair it according to the Denkmalschutz rules. Apparently the law which intended to protect such houses do the opposite.

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Wait, @gaberlunzi, is your house in Niederösterreich?

I've noticed that there are significantly less old houses in Austria than in Bavaria. I wonder is it because of different culture there or different laws, or I am just mistaken because Austrian houses are better renovated and look like new?

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On 13/02/2018, 05:39:48, gaberlunzi said:

There are to many old houses/buildings. They need another war to make room for new houses.

The house I was born in and grew up in was built around 1400 and is ready for demolition as it can't be rebuilt where it is now.

It is in a flood plain and water every 20-30 years in the house won't improve it. I declined to claim it.

There are some houses the Romans and the Kelts lived in 2 000 years ago. The Roman's are still kept up but the Kelt's houses went with the times.

 "Too many old houses"? Are you serious? What part of the RAF and USAAF bombing campaign are you unfamiliar with? 

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Taff, the question of Denkmalshutz is not as clear cut as outsiders think. As you know I love old stuff but within reason. I helped empty out an old barn about 300 years old a few years back. It was originally an old farm with six cows. Sounds idyllic but the work required to make it habitable was prohibitive. It was damp and dusty. I got loads of wonderful knick knacks from it such as axes and other tools. i got fantastic wood splitters. Now there's one thing I remember hanging up in the old barn and I could kick myself - old scythes! I'm fascinated with them! There are websites devoted to bringing them back and you can learn to sharpen them, near me. If anyone ever sees old scythes in other old barns, let me know...

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1 hour ago, Taffthedigger said:

What part of the RAF and USAAF bombing campaign are you unfamiliar with? 

It was enough with what I was familiar. The bombing raids were mostly at cities, small villages did not get bombed until the last days of the war.

You most likely weren't alive then so you were spared the trouble.

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Romantic Road tourist trail in Bavaria includes towns which were almost not affected by the bombing. The trail includes 30 something towns. I drove the whole route but skipped some of them (visited about 25 towns).

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3 hours ago, jeremytwo said:

Taff, the question of Denkmalshutz is not as clear cut as outsiders think. As you know I love old stuff but within reason. I helped empty out an old barn about 300 years old a few years back. It was originally an old farm with six cows. Sounds idyllic but the work required to make it habitable was prohibitive. It was damp and dusty. I got loads of wonderful knick knacks from it such as axes and other tools. i got fantastic wood splitters. Now there's one thing I remember hanging up in the old barn and I could kick myself - old scythes! I'm fascinated with them! There are websites devoted to bringing them back and you can learn to sharpen them, near me. If anyone ever sees old scythes in other old barns, let me know...

You remind me that we have got an old scythe in our shed in need of sharpening for use. Haven"t tried it out yet, but the grass will grow and then I can. Our 82 yr old dairy farmer neighbor likes to cut grass for his 4 hobby calves using  scythe still. 

 

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19 hours ago, cybil said:

You remind me that we have got an old scythe in our shed in need of sharpening for use. Haven"t tried it out yet, but the grass will grow and then I can. Our 82 yr old dairy farmer neighbor likes to cut grass for his 4 hobby calves using  scythe still. 

 

 

Here is the website which attempts to revive scything...

 

http://scytheconnection.com/the-scythe-must-dance-book/

 

This guy makes interesting Toobs:

 

 

 

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On 16/02/2018, 21:59:41, gaberlunzi said:

 

On 16/02/2018, 21:59:41, gaberlunzi said:

You most likely weren't alive then so you were spared the trouble.

Spared the trouble? My mother was born during a Luftwaffe raid in 1941 while my grandfather had to go up on the roof to kick the incendiaries off. This was shortly after they were evacuated from London - and the day they moved, the house was taken out by a mine. Another family member flew (and died) with Bomber Command, so this is something I am quite familiar with thank you. But I digress. The house which was demolished was not just an old house - it was the oldest. In a town like Donauwörth which has been fought over many times - in 2009 I found a cannonball and a musket flint during an excavation on the site of Burg Mangold - original Medieval structures of this age do not grow on trees.

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56 minutes ago, Taffthedigger said:

Spared the trouble? My mother was born during a Luftwaffe raid in 1941 while my grandfather had to go up on the roof to kick the incendiaries off. This was shortly after they were evacuated from London - and the day they moved, the house was taken out by a mine. Another family member flew (and died) with Bomber Command, so this is something I am quite familiar with thank you. But I digress. The house which was demolished was not just an old house - it was the oldest. In a town like Donauwörth which has been fought over many times - in 2009 I found a cannonball and a musket flint during an excavation on the site of Burg Mangold - original Medieval structures of this age do not grow on trees.

Save your bad conscience. Your mother mat have had a bad time, but not you. Wars are bad for anyone who's got shot at or bombed and the shortage of everything and the daily uncertainty hanging over your head. Enough said.

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On 19/02/2018, 15:08:26, gaberlunzi said:

Save your bad conscience. Your mother mat have had a bad time, but not you. Wars are bad for anyone who's got shot at or bombed and the shortage of everything and the daily uncertainty hanging over your head. Enough said.

I have no bad conscience thank you. I am only incredulous that some people do not value cultural heritage. Once it has gone, it has gone. As an archaeologist I know only too well about maintaining the balance between preservation and progression: one cannot save everything and certainly neither myself or my colleagues would suggest otherwise. Were that so, most of us would be out of work, since it on construction sites that the majority make their bread and butter.

 

The powers that be in the Landesamt für Denkmalplege might be respected civil servants but they are only human and like any person can make bad calls. Only recently a very senior person suggested my site - which was full of Roman artefacts (a site of ritual deposition. Offerings included 2000+ coins, sculptural fragments, weapons etc) be excavated by JCB, the soil to be sifted through in a warehouse. It would be a treasure hunt, rather than a methodical excavation. Thankfully, this ridiculous idea was not pursued. I am still shocked that someone I held in high esteem (Who shall remain nameless) would make such a suggestion.

 

For sure, this house was surveyed - and "preserved by record". However, given the uniqueness of the site, one must question the motives behind such a decision.

 

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Taff the problem is that Oberbayern is red hot right now with development. I can't stand the boom myself.

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