Deregistered, TKK refuses to cancel health insurance

42 posts in this topic

Hi, I'm writing on behalf of a friend, I would like to ask for some advises regarding the procedure to end the health insurance with TKK please.
 
She stopped working for her German employer in early May (she resigned voluntarily in April), and on 31st of May she left Germany to move to Spain...So she was unemployed with no income for 3 weeks before leaving Germany.
 
We talked with TKK about what to do, and one of their customer service representatives told us that she'd have to pay the base tariff (170 EUR/month) for those 3 weeks when she was unemployed, and that she should send a proof that she wasn't living anymore in Germany.
 
We then sent then TKK a letter with a request to cancel the health insurance, and the Abmeldungbestatigung with date 31st of May. We also wrote to send any further correspondence (in particular, the final blll for those 3 weeks in May) to her new Spanish address.
 
Now...They sent her a letter in Spain, saying that in order to cancel the health insurance she also needs to send a proof of my new health insurance in Spain, so I also sent them this document... Afterwards, they sent her another letter saying that this is not enough and that she also needs to send an "E104 form" from the Social Security containing info about the beginning of my coverage in Spain...before the 3rd of Juli.
 
She's very frustrated with this, it seems that no matter how many documents she sends it's never enough for them, and we are both wondering if it is even legal to keep someone in their coverage against her will??? She doesn't live anymore in Germany, she has only a duty to pay the insurance until the 31st of May, that's it.
 
Could anyone please guide me on how to proceed in this case? Any advises please?
 
Many thanks.
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Great letter for the TK written by Panda Munich! Just mail it off, perhaps at the postoffice with the so called ''per Einschreiben'' with signature and your case should be closed.

 

Also, even if you would have stayed in Germany with no job for 3 weeks before changing to a new employer, there is the so called ''Nachversicherungszeit'' that applies. It means that up to 4 weeks you still have health insurance even though you resigned with your employer.

 

 

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1 hour ago, germanyherewecome said:

Great letter for the TK written by Panda Munich! Just mail it off, perhaps at the postoffice with the so called ''per Einschreiben'' with signature and your case should be closed.

 

Also, even if you would have stayed in Germany with no job for 3 weeks before changing to a new employer, there is the so called ''Nachversicherungszeit'' that applies. It means that up to 4 weeks you still have health insurance even though you resigned with your employer.

 

 

 

I was in a similar situation some years ago...And they (TKK) told me that it doesn't apply for people who earn more than the limit to switch to private (I stayed in the public system nevertheless), so I had to pay for 1 month that I was unemployed between jobs...Is it true?

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3 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

Write them the following letter (send it by post, not by e-mail!):

 

*******************************************************************************

 

Betrifft: Ihr Schreiben vom ...<enter date written on Techniker's letter to you>

Ehemalige Versichertennummer: <enter the insurance number you had with Techniker, it should be written in the Betreff of Techniker's letter to you>

 

 

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

 

ich bin am 31. Mai 2017 nach Spanien umgezogen, und habe Ihnen bereits als Nachweis meine Abmeldebestätigung, die nur bei einem Umzug ins Ausland ausgestellt wird, zugeschickt.

 

Gemäß §193 Absatz 3 Satz 1 Versicherungsvertragsgesetz endete meine Versicherungspflicht sobald ich meinen Wohnsitz im Inland (= Deutschland) aufgab:

" (3) 1Jede Person mit Wohnsitz im Inland ist verpflichtet, bei einem in Deutschland zum Geschäftsbetrieb zugelassenen Versicherungsunternehmen für sich selbst und für die von ihr gesetzlich vertretenen Personen, soweit diese nicht selbst Verträge abschließen können, eine Krankheitskostenversicherung, die mindestens eine Kostenerstattung für ambulante und stationäre Heilbehandlung umfasst und bei der die für tariflich vorgesehene Leistungen vereinbarten absoluten und prozentualen Selbstbehalte für ambulante und stationäre Heilbehandlung für jede zu versichernde Person auf eine betragsmäßige Auswirkung von kalenderjährlich 5 000 Euro begrenzt ist, abzuschließen und aufrechtzuerhalten; für Beihilfeberechtigte ergeben sich die möglichen Selbstbehalte durch eine sinngemäße Anwendung des durch den Beihilfesatz nicht gedeckten Vom-Hundert-Anteils auf den Höchstbetrag von 5 000 Euro. "

 

Meine Versicherung mit Ihnen hat am 31. Mai 2017 geendet, die deutschen Regelungen zur Folgeversicherungsbestätigung betreffen mich nicht, da ich nicht in Deutschland wohne, sondern in Spanien. 

Ich möchte Sie hiermit bitten, Ihre Rechtsabteilung zu konsultieren, damit Ihnen diese diesen Sachverhalt bestätigt.

 

Damit hat sich Ihr Schreiben erledigt, ich möchte Sie bitten, mich nicht mehr zu belästigen, unsere Vertragsbeziehungen haben am 31. Mai 2017 geendet.

 

Desweiteren - obwohl dies nachweislich nicht Teil meiner Aufgaben ist, und hier auch nicht zur Debatte steht - möchte ich Sie darauf hinweisen, daß Sie unter veralteten Instruktionen operieren.

Es ist seit einigen Jahren nicht mehr für Versicherte möglich, das Formular E104 zu beantragen.

 

Das neue (naja, nicht mehr so neue) Verfahren, ist, daß die deutsche Krankenkasse (= Sie) mit dem strukturierten elektronischen Dokument (= SED) S040 (alter Name: "E104 Teil A") bei der spanischen Krankenkasse um Auskunft anfragt: https://www.kvg.org/stream/de/download---0--0--0--517.doc

Diese antwortet dann auf Ihr Auskunftsersuchen mit dem SED S041 (alter Name: "E104 Teil B"): https://www.kvg.org/stream/de/download---0--0--0--518.doc

 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

your signature

your name

 

Superb letter, Panda! I would add at the end , they should pay a fine a fine for wasting my time - shall we say: 200 Euros plus Mehrwertsteuer!:D

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2 hours ago, ItMunich said:

 

I was in a similar situation some years ago...And they (TKK) told me that it doesn't apply for people who earn more than the limit to switch to private (I stayed in the public system nevertheless), so I had to pay for 1 month that I was unemployed between jobs...Is it true?

" Some years ago "...hm! The State/Govt has messed around with the system a few times over the past few years - maybe justifiably sometimes - most mere mortals, myself included, can´t recite offhand how it was without knowing exactly when and even then...some thinking required! Basically, what is NOW relevant is that no one can be uninsured even for one day if you have been insured and your work/personal life circumstances change. 

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3 hours ago, ItMunich said:

I was in a similar situation some years ago...And they (TKK) told me that it doesn't apply for people who earn more than the limit to switch to private (I stayed in the public system nevertheless), so I had to pay for 1 month that I was unemployed between jobs...Is it true?

 

That is correct, if you look into the section of the law dealing with this "beitragsfreie Nachversicherung", §19 Absatz 2 SGB V (that Absatz 2 has always been like that, see the evolution in time of that section of the law on the Buzer web site):

 

(2) 1Endet die Mitgliedschaft Versicherungspflichtiger, besteht Anspruch auf Leistungen längstens für einen Monat nach dem Ende der Mitgliedschaft, solange keine Erwerbstätigkeit ausgeübt wird.2Eine Versicherung nach § 10 hat Vorrang vor dem Leistungsanspruch nach Satz 1.

 

it explicitly says that that up to one month of free membership after you stop working (to cover a period between jobs that is allowed to last for up to 1 month) is only applied to Versicherungspflichtige, i.e. to mandatory members of public health insurance.

 

You, however, had an income over the Jahresarbeitsentgeltsgrenze (= Versicherungspflichtgrenze) and were therefore not a mandatory member, see §6 Absatz 1 Nr. 1 SGB V.

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Does anybody have a contact higher up in TKK management chain? They still insist on billing her even since after she left Germany. You can also send me this by PM..

 

They stubbornly keep asking for this form, which is not easy to get for her, because you need to book an appointment to one of the Madrid's city offices, and go there in person and they don't have a lot of available slots at this time of the year. Why isn't proof of deregistration in Germany + proof of registration in Spain enough?

 

Many thanks

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Yes, she sent the letter by registered post, and got the following e-mail in her inbox...

 

"Thank you for your notice.
 
Needless to say, that you can hand in the E104 later on. However we can't terminate your TK-membership without it. I.e. you have to pay the contribution for your ongoing TK-membership on time. The contribution for May and June 2017 (XXX,YY Euro altogether) needs to be paid until the 15th of July 2017. Your future contribution has to transferred until the 15th of the following month.
 
Do you have further questions? Don't hesitate to ask. We are eager to help.
 
Yours sincerely,
[Name omitted]
 
Techniker Krankenkasse
Specialist Centre Membership and Contributions"
 
 
 
Am I the only one that think they are extremely arrogant and stubborn? What's the logic of forcing somebody to pay for an health insurance after they left Germany?
If you go on TK's Facebook page, there are similar complains, about people leaving Germany and unable to cancel their membership...
 
Also notice...this TKK's employee still refers to the E104 form, which doesn't exist anymore...
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53 minutes ago, GeorgeIt said:

 

 
Am I the only one that think they are extremely arrogant and stubborn? What's the logic of forcing somebody to pay for an health insurance after they left Germany?
If you go on TK's Facebook page, there are similar complains, about people leaving Germany and unable to cancel their membership...
 
Also notice...this TKK's employee still refers to the E104 form, which doesn't exist anymore...

 

Arrogant, stubborn and grossly incompetent. 

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Hi all,

 

Very good post. I have one doubt as my situation could be a little bit different. 

 

I have resigned from my current employer and my last working day will be 31st of August. I will join a new company within 15th of September. 

 

I will be on holidays from 1st to 14th of September, so my question here is, should I pay to TKK those 14th days that I wont be employed by any company and having holidays in other country? Also, Im thinking to move to private with my new employer, do you see a chance that I can join new company and new insurance company without paying those 14th days?

 

Thanks a lot for your support,

Goyo.

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Concerning the earnings threshold, at the moment of employment termination, surely there has to be a loophole though:

 

If you normally earned over the limit, and were freiwillig versichert with a public insurer, but quit work half-way through the financial year, and then earn nothing (not even unemployment benefit) you probably have not (yet) reached the threshold (pro rata at least) for being eligible for privat insurance.

 

Getting a confirmation letter from the benefits agency to say you are not claiming surely would help shatter their argument you continue to earn over the limit.

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Hello all,

This topic can be a little outdated but I might be in a similar situation. I will cancel TK by the end of the month and I am getting paranoid that they will not let me go. I will provide abmeldung, Italian health insurance card, airplane tickets if they want. @GeorgeIt did you solve the matter finally? How did it go? 

Thanks

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Claudiosj, I was interested in applying for a position in another EU country and therefore contacted TKK just to see what the rules are regarding canceling the TKK membership.

 

Here is what they told me:

1. If I want to work in another EU country they need to see work contract, airplane ticket one-way, health insurance from the other country. If my Germany employment would end for example on January 31st. I would have to have health insurance on Feb.1st. at the new country in order to TKK not charging me anything. If there is a gap of one day or longer they would charge me like a person who is voluntary insured.

 

2. When I asked them if they also need the Abmeldung/de-registration from Germany, they told me I don't necessarily have to de-register from Germany, I can also just cancel my health insurance, especially if I have a short contract there or decide I just want to stay there for a year and come back.

 

3. Usually you have one month where you are still insured after a job ends for example if you switch jobs and the new one doesn't start until 3 weeks later. In case of moving to another EU country I am not sure if that still applies. If it does, that seemless time line shouldn't even apply because if you are in insured in Germany, cancel the TKK membership for the 31st. of January and then hop on a plane but you don't start employment there until February 15th. why would you have to proof seamless job switches if you are actually still after insured by TKK. It's difficult to get information, contacted them 3 times and every customer service person told me similar things, but they all put their own spin on it and one connected me with the so called foreigners division and gave me a list of things to submit, telling me also that if their is a gap between the two jobs that I have to start a contract for voluntary insurance, and since there is a 2-months cancellation period for this particular insurance, I would also have to cancel it at the same time. It's nonsense, isn't it?

 

You can try submitting those things, but keep in mind that you could run into difficulties. I am not sure how soon you would cancel your regular health insurance with them so it would be appropriate for them to fit in with their cancellation policies.

 

P.S.: A friend of mine had a gap of 2 months before he started working in another EU country and had to show proof of iternational full coverage health insurance to TKK so they would let him out of the voluntary insurance. He told me it was lesse expensive though then paying 340 Euros for the two months TKK would have charged. But here again, even though he was not employed for 2 months, he had this 1 months after insurance through TKK but apparently that didn't count.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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germanyherewecome,

I contacted TKK today, I went in person and I also called. I am Italian and I am going back to Italy (I still dont have a job there) at the end of February. What they told me is that I just need to present abmeldung and maybe ticket of the plane. They did not ask for new health insurance in Italy (I specifically asked them - do I need to provide you with a proof of Italian health insurance?). And they told me no. I guess if you are from EU they are less strict on this things. As people said above, you are obliged to have health insurance in germany ONLY if you are a resident here. With the abmeldung you are not a resident anymore and they must let you go. 
I think if you are form outside EU they more strict and also, I am employed here. Are you a freelancer? 

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I am, in general, an extremely polite person, help little old ladies across the street (and also encourage cats to respect traffic lights so as to not get run over ) but my blood boils when I read such stuff re leaving German insurance. You, claudio, are leaving Germany ...BASTA. Tell them to bugger off, You do NOT have to prove ANYTHING. Abmeldung and letter of cancellation - that´s it.

Tell the next TK person to have more sex, watch more football and read more about the world eg Germany is one country and Italy is another.

 

Sigh...

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

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Hi John,

From what they told me today it should be fine only with abmledung, but I will be calm when I will receive the cancellation letter (I am a bit of an anxious person generally :( . If I ran into troubles can I get in touch with you? (My german is not very good) even if they have good english customer service. Efharistò! 

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