to move or not to move(job offer)

17 posts in this topic

Hi everyone, 

 

long story short, I was offered a job in Munich, the salary is 70k + 4k bonus, I am married and have 4 young kids, 8, 6, 4, 2 years old.

I can not decide whether I will be able to survive in Munich off that money, whether I will be able to rent a flat and so on. The company provides relocation service to find a flat (pays one time fee to a relocation company) but will not pay the rent.

 

I 've been to Munich for several days, I like the city, but the whole thing feels like a gambling to me because in my city I have a decent job the only issue that I have is 4 hour commute a day. Thank you for advice

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Try using this to work out your net salary and whether you want to live in Munich or on the outskirts (possibly cheaper.)

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Hi Nick, I am ok with 2 hour commute a day (1 hour 1 way)

 

thank you for the link provided

 

I am not sure whether I am on the right track, I put my details into the form and it says that monthly netto income will be 4300, is that correct or I missing something?

 

I used tax class number 3 and inserted amount for tax exemption for married couple 17000 eur yearly.

 

 

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Hi SpiderPig,

 

I was told some scary stories that they would not rent an apartment of such size to my big family, is it questionable?

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It is true that landlords can choose their tenants, and many might not want such a big family, so maybe it would be a challenge, but that doesn't mean it's not possible to find a place to live.  The income should be sufficient if you can find a place (I live 30 minutes away from Frankfurt and surely Munich is not any more expensive than Frankfurt).

 

If you're dealing with a 4 hour commute now, I'm guessing you could find something within a much smaller radius of Munich. but maybe it's good to find it first and move later if possible.  If you are in town now, I'd highly recommend you start searching for rentals... including actually meeting with people to see if they are open to a family of your size.

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22 hours ago, attrz said:

Hi everyone, 

 

long story short, I was offered a job in Munich, the salary is 70k + 4k bonus, I am married and have 4 young kids, 8, 6, 4, 2 years old.

I can not decide whether I will be able to survive in Munich off that money, whether I will be able to rent a flat and so on. The company provides relocation service to find a flat (pays one time fee to a relocation company) but will not pay the rent.

 

I 've been to Munich for several days, I like the city, but the whole thing feels like a gambling to me because in my city I have a decent job the only issue that I have is 4 hour commute a day. Thank you for advice

 

I think a lot more info is going to be needed here. At the end of the day, there are people who earn a lot less and still manage with many kids. The question is "quality of life".

 

Where are you coming from? Overseas or another part of Germany? Does your partner work?

 

Munich is the most expensive place to rent in Germany...more than Frankfurt...and by quite a bit too...source.

 

Someone will hopefully come along to help with a better calculation of your netto income but whilst 70K is not at all bad (hell, it's more than I get), it's also not that special in Munich. It really just depends what you are coming from. If it's just about cutting your commuting time then why not move closer to your current job?

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If you come from non-EU then you will be shocked with the amount of taxes, healthcare, pension, unemployement insurance, etc you will have to pay and will reduce your salary by about half of what you get. But then there are other things you have to consider:

With 4 kids your child support is considerable high. You will get 192 EUR per kids for kid #1 and #2, 198 EUR for kid #3 and 223 EUR for kid #4. That would be 805 EUR a month, which is not bad. Child support increases every year by around 2 EUR per kid.

Education is for free as long as you send your kids to public schools, which is manageable with the age of your kids. Kindergarden can be expensive in some states. In Berlin the last 3 years are for free, not sure how it is in Bavaria.

For some reasons I don't really understand the price of groceries in Europe is nowadays quite OK, probably because of capitalism and mass production and science. I am shocked how most things are cheaper here compared to my third world country. And in general terms, Germany is mostly cheaper compared to other Western Europe countries.


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22 hours ago, attrz said:

 

I am not sure whether I am on the right track, I put my details into the form and it says that monthly netto income will be 4300, is that correct or I missing something?

 

Actually it's a bit lower, a bit more than 4.000, because: 

 

Quote

 

I used tax class number 3 and inserted amount for tax exemption for married couple 17000 eur yearly.

 

that tax exemption for married couples is calculated automatically when you choose tax class III, you don't have to insert it. You could only insert s.th. if you had additional tax exemptions (e.g. because of commuting).

 

Here's a tax calculator in english (click on "Wage Tax Calculator" on top of the site).

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I come from Russia Moscow, currently I am in my home country,  I have my own house, and transport expenses here are very low, 2-3 percent of my current salary I spend on public transport per month, so it would not be wise to get into the mess with  renting of new home(also even while living in Moscow, commute time of 1 hour(one trip, and 2 hours for round trip) is considered pretty regular thing, I mean 80-90 percent of people spend on commute the time alike, 5 percent spend less, and another 5-10 percent spend more and upto 1 hour 30 mintes). renting costs in Moscow would be comparable to the costs in Munich, though utilities are cheaper.

 

p.s. I've recieved my job contract and am still contemplating how wise would it be to relocate to Germany, and whether I should proceed for getting visa and stuff, I used numbeo.com I filled in details of 5 people, Munich etc and it said that for a household of 5 adults I would need 3800 eur if I were not saving.

 

p.s.s. my wife most probably is not going to work as she does not have sufficient qualification, and has to look after kids.

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In that case then I would say this is a major life decision. Questions such as do you want your kids to grow up in Germany? Going through the German school system and speaking German. How does your wife feel about moving to another country? Do either of you speak German?

 

The fact is that you will not be poor here, but neither will you be rich. People move for different reasons but in general for better income, better career prospects, better quality of life. The fact that you are thinking of moving to another country and have wife and young children then I would personally want all 3 of those things to be true, and significantly so.

 

I still find it hard to believe that moving to another country is easier than moving to near your job in order to reduce your commuting time.

 

ETA: Don't forget there is normally a probation time for jobs in Germany. In the first 6 months of employment you can be let go for no reason.

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thanks theGman, I am ok with kids growing up in Germany and speaking German, if we moved there, I would consider this is a must to integrate into the society and not to join yet another Russian enclave, concerning German language we do not speak it, but I guess it is a matter of time. These  2 things "better career prospects, better quality of life" I would definetely say true, as after some research I managed to find loads of good companies out there in Germany, and there is a demand for professionals, I am getting more requests from British recruiters looking for people to close openings in Germany than requests from Russian companies. But as to better income, dunno, that's why I came here to ask people, in absolute terms it is definetely better in Germany , but in Russia I do not have to pay the rent and at the end of the day I can save more.

 

But another major things to take into consideration  are politics in Russia, and stability of Russian ruble, and things like sanctions against the country, etc, in 2014 I became twicefold poorer after Wester World ran sanctions against the Russian goverment, and decline of oil prices. So today I am good here, tomorrow I do not know, and things do not depend on me, so you got what I mean

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Will you be able to rent out the house in Russia? Would that rent be significant extra income to offset against renting a flat in Munich?

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Hi kiplette,

 

well I thought of renting out a house in Russia as an option,

at best I would get 600 eur a month for it, at worst I guess 380 eur.

 

it is something, but there is a chance that if we returned we wouldn't like to live in the place after former tenants, so a bit risky

 

and it is not Munich, here we have more houses/flats than tenants I believe

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Before making such a major decision and taking your family here I would definitely recomend you to come here alone temporarily to test the waters, see if you like it, see if you pass the probationary period. I know lots of people who moved here blindly and didn't like it here after getting to know the country, but ended up stuck here for years because it was too hard to move back. Not saying nobody likes it here of course. To get an idea of what I'm talking about take a look at this thread https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/111979-why-did-you-decide-to-leave-germany/

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It's hard to estimate as Germany and Russia are just so different. On the one hand your overall quality of life for the family should be pretty high in Munich on that salary (safety, health care, education, etc.). However, from a German/Western European perspective it will be quite limited/restricted as most Germans would want a not-too-small apartment for a family of 6, which in Munich is really expensive. For >120 square meters you're looking at minimum 1800 EUR/month warm in Munich (and suburbs on the S- and U-bahn). Most families of 4 here with 1 1/2 to 2 working parents struggle to find a place large enough that they can afford and many are forced to move quite far outside of the city (the goal is of course a bedroom for each kid and a garden, which is the family must-have that is not cheap). To achieve "German" acceptability standards you would probably need to be paying close to 50% of your income just for housing and utilities.

 

However, it is all relative, as from my understanding it is much more common in Moscow to live in very tight quarters (i.e. kids share bedrooms, sometimes even with parents, sometimes even with grandparents also living together in a small apartment). I personally have met families from Moscow who pack 2 kids and 2 parents and 2 grandmas into a 40 sq m apartment so they can afford an expensive car and nice luxury items -- pretty much unthinkable for Germans) -- I just think the standards and expectations are very different. So if you are willing to live in a smaller place, say 3-4 rooms (2-3 bedrooms) and <100 sq. m (most Germans would balk at the idea of 6 people in such little space), then things look different (80 sq meters with a commute of under an hour should be possible for under 1500 EUR warm -- of course, Germans will consider you crazy for living on top of each other and it might also be a challenge to be accepted by the landlord as this is way higher than expected occupancy). Munich also has almost only safe, high-quality housing, which is generally good except there's nothing cheap.

 

And "normal" commutes in Moscow are also much longer: a one-hour commute in Munich is generally considered to be too long, as the commute "should" be under an hour, ideally 30-60 minutes. Everything close enough to be under 30 minutes is very expensive, i.e. everything on the S-Bahn (or UBahn) lines.

 

So if you are willing to live further out and have a commute of about an hour and/or live in a very small place, then I would think the overall quality of life would be significantly better. However, that is very subjective and others may see that differently. As you mentioned above, simply the personal safety and the political/financial stability of Munich is probably worth quite a lot for your kids and family.

 

If you are at all used to being "rich" in Moscow, you will _NOT_ be in Munich. If that's not okay, then don't even think about it.

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You can easily find a cheaper rental if you are willing to do a 2 hour commute.  I am less than 2 hours away in Chiemgau and live in a wonderful little town near the Chiemsee and within sight of the Alps and pay 1000€ for 120m.  The high rents in Munich are due to the fact that most Germans would consider a 2 hour commute totally unacceptable.   

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