German citizenship after 6 years

55 posts in this topic

Hey guys,

 

I just submitted my citizenship application few days ago in Aachen based on the 6 years criteria, although I have already reached 7 years.

 

I don’t fully qualify for the 7 years citizenship though, since I only have the Zertifikat Integrationskurs which certifies the completion of Leben in Deutschland exam (I got 33/33) and not participation fully in an integration course. However, I actually attended an orientation course on my own expenses, but not the language course since I have a DSH-2 which is the equivalent of a C1 certificate.

 

I contacted BAMF for recognition of my qualifications in order to issue me the full version Zertifikat Integrationskurs, but I got replied that regardless of prior knowledge of German language, it will be only issued to those who prove attendance to at least 3 stages of an integration course (both language course and orientation course), which is quite silly in my opinion. There’s no way that a participant of a B1 language course within an integration course achieves more points in terms of integrating into the German society than a student who took a C1 language in an academic environment.

 

Anyways…

 

I heard and read a lot of horror stories about Ausländeramt Aachen and how brilliantly they hinder citizenship under 8 years, but I still though that my case is strong and any sane person will have a hard time ignoring my efforts of integration into the German society.


So, here’s what I submitted:

 

  • DSH-2 (C1 certificate) which corresponds to the core requirement of § 10 Abs. 3. S. 2 StAG
  • Zertifikat Integrationkurs on successful completion of LID test along with certificate of participation in an orientation course
  • Blue Card (highly qualified employee)
  • Three recommendation letters from my previous and current employers on how amazingly I performed and how they strongly support my citizenship request
  • A German university degree
  • Working for many years as a Hiwi during my studies and half a year voluntary work in a university
  • Having a B1 certificate even before coming to Germany which is the requirement of § 10 Abs. 1 S. 1 Nr. 6 StAG

 

All of these and the officer looking at my documents was way far from satisfied (add to that my middle eastern background) and told me that I can submit my application but she doesn’t see any reason to give me a privileged citizenship and that she will send me a letter (I had a feeling that she meant she obviously intends to reject my application).

 

So that is apparently how things are in Ausländeramt Aachen (at least in my case).

 

P.S: I was very well dressed for the application day…

 

Anyone had similar experiences in Aachen?

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On 7/11/2019, 3:26:47, ilyann said:

Well, I do suggest that the poster learns about this directly from the AHB/Einbürgerungsbehörde. But again, my anecdotal experience with NE is supported by other people from Berlin (they have the Ermessenspielraum regarding what do they accept as the proof of the language). 

 

Actually the boundaries of Ermessenspielraum are restricted to § 40 VwVfG and there are even some cases in which the assessment power of a Behörde is reduced to none i.e. Ermessensreduzierung auf Null (see the verdict of VG Aachen - 4 K 960/14 from 12. May 2015).

 

The § 10 Abs. 3 S. 2 StAG clealry acknowledges the command of German language beyond the requirements of § 10 Abs. 1 S. 1 Nr. 6 StAG i.e. from B2 to above as besondere Integrationsleistungen.

 

On the other hand the latest executive order VAH-StAG from 01. June 2015 states in number 10.3.1 that "... Hierzu zählen deutsche Sprachkenntnisse, die die Voraussetzung der ausreichenden Sprachkenntnisse übersteigen müssen und daher auf dem Niveau B2 GER oder höher liegen sollen.". The legislature adds further on that "... Bei der Ermessensentscheidung ist in jedem Einzelfall eine Gesamtbetrachtung anzustellen, bei der auch mehrere Leistungen zusammen erst eine privilegierte Einbürgerung rechtfertigen können." Based on § 40 VwVfG the word können here DOES NOT MEAN that the Einbürgerungsbehörde is allowed to go beyond the frame of § 10 Abs. 3 S. 2 StAG and this is clearly mentioned in number 3 of circular decree (at least in NRW) Runderlass des Ministeriums für Inneres und Kommunales Az. 113 - 40.00 - 6.1vom 20. November 2015 that "Bei der Bearbeitung der Einbürgerungsanträge sollen die durch das Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz eingeräumten Entscheidungs- und Ermessensspielräume unter Berücksichtigung der VAH-StAG in der Fassung vom 1. Juni 2015  - soweit es zu vertreten ist - zu Gunsten der Einbürgerungsbewerber ausgeschöpft werden (vergleiche § 2 Absatz 9 des Gesetzes zur Förderung der gesellschaftlichen Teilhabe und Integration in Nordrhein-Westfalen)." This means that all of the integration characteristics of an applicant should be assessed in his/her favor to make a privileged citizenship possible and any other approaches than that are against § 40 VwVfG.

 

Finally in the verdict which I mentioned above it is stated that "... Bei dieser Tatbestandsvoraussetzung handelt es sich um einen unbestimmten Rechtsbegriff, der in vollem Umfang der verwaltungsgerichtlichen Kontrolle unterliegt, ohne dass der Einbürgerungsbehörde dabei ein Beurteilungsspielraum eingeräumt ist. Besondere Integrationsleistungen sind alle einer Integration förderlichen Handlungen eines Ausländers, die qualitativ oder quantitativ über die in § 10 Abs. 1 StAG normierten Mindestanforderungen für einen Einbürgerungsanspruch hinausgehen und so vom Üblichen abweichen.". This means the the Einbürgerungsbehörde does not have judgement power regarding the integration quality of a person and anything that goes beyond the minimum requirements are to be considered as besondere Integrationsleistungen.

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22 hours ago, aachenerheld said:

it will be only issued to those who prove attendance to at least 3 stages of an integration course (both language course and orientation course), which is quite silly in my opinion

 

Yeah, very silly. I'll take note not to pursue citizenship at Aachen.

 

Thanks for the info, @aachenerheld.

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4 hours ago, vaonba said:

 

Yeah, very silly. I'll take note not to pursue citizenship at Aachen.

 

Thanks for the info, @aachenerheld.

 

It's a requirement of BAMF actually, but there are other cities which have clear instructions to accept both a Zertifikat Integrationskurs that was achieved without attending Sprachkurs or even Orientierungskurs. Not to mention that, having a Zertifikat Integrationskurs with attending an Orientierungskurs (takes only a week if you find an intensive course) along seven years of residency in Germany is by all means a legitimate point to be assessed under § 10 Abs. 3 S. 2 StAG leading to a positive decision (but Aachenians see things more RIGHT and say NOPE!).

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@aachenerheld, I'm just saying it's silly because since I already have a B1 certificate, I can't take advantage of the 7 years rule. Unless if I take the whole integration course, both the orientation and language components. At least in Aachen. 

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16 hours ago, vaonba said:

@aachenerheld, I'm just saying it's silly because since I already have a B1 certificate, I can't take advantage of the 7 years rule. Unless if I take the whole integration course, both the orientation and language components. At least in Aachen. 

yes these days it seems they are strict with this

 

B1 and 7 years possible - if get attendance

 

B1 and 8 years is usually suggested. 

 

Right after taking the german passport can one move to a low tax country like bulgaria or macedonia? just wondering?

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1 hour ago, kapil354 said:

...

 

Right after taking the german passport can one move to a low tax country like bulgaria or macedonia? just wondering?

 

I assume you mean North Macedonia and not the region of Greece?

It is not in the EU, so having German citizenship might not make any difference to obtaining residency, which anybody can obtain so long as they start a business and buy property.

 

Bulgaria & N. Macedonia might have low income tax rates, but would you really want to live there?  Poor infrastructure and corruption are some challenges.

The average wages are N. Macedonia = 610 Euros/month, Bulgaria = 640 Euros/month.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

 

 

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1 minute ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

I assume you mean North Macedonia and not the region of Greece?

It is not in the EU, so having German citizenship might not make any difference to obtaining residency, which anybody can obtain so long as they start a business and buy property.

 

Bulgaria & N. Macedonia might have low income tax rates, but would you really want to live there?  Poor infrastructure and corruption are some challenges.

The average wages are N. Macedonia = 610 Euros/month, Bulgaria = 640 Euros/month.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

 

 

Good points - if you are a "wager"

But if you are a freelancer might make sense?

The average income for internet workers is location independent. 

Plus, these countries are beautiful.

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3 hours ago, kapil354 said:

Good points - if you are a "wager"

But if you are a freelancer might make sense?

The average income for internet workers is location independent. 

Plus, these countries are beautiful.

 

To visit, but I would not like to live there.  Although I haven't been to either for a few years.

 

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Living in a low cost country is a very pleasent experience, especially when you have an income equal to those in the high cost countries.

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Shame I am not in a low cost country and at the same time I am paying German taxes!?

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Does the spouse of the person, who makes the application to be naturalised under 6 years rule, also need a language certificate and citizenship test result to be naturalised together? 

 

I know that the required time is less for spouses.

 

 

Unbenannt.png

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3 minutes ago, TurMech said:

Does the spouse of the person, who makes the application to be naturalised under 6 years rule, also need a language certificate and citizenship test result to be naturalised together? 

 

I know that the required time is less for spouses.

 

 

Unbenannt.png

 

Yes.

 

 

All other criteria remain the same, just the time is reduced.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

Yes.

 

 

All other criteria remain the same, just the time is reduced.

 

 

 

In this case, is the requested language certificate from the spouse also B2? (Same criteria as the main applicant)

 

Or a B1 result would suffice, which is the minimum for application, but after 7 or 8 years?

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59 minutes ago, TurMech said:

 

In this case, is the requested language certificate from the spouse also B2? (Same criteria as the main applicant)

 

Or a B1 result would suffice, which is the minimum for application, but after 7 or 8 years?

 

They need to have sufficient knowledge of the German language, for which B1 would be enough.

 

 

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