German citizenship after 6 years

[blackarrow 7]

Hello!

 

My girlfriend and I live and work in Germany for 2,5 years, and are EU citizens. She works at the university, and I work as an engineer. Right now, we are preparing ourselves to take Goethe C1 language test.

 

The naturalization is far away, but I would to have some information on that nevertheless. According to the law we should be able to apply and get the German citizenship after living 6 years in Germany: " Bei Vorliegen besonderer Integrationsleistungen, insbesondere beim Nachweis von Sprachkenntnissen, die die Voraussetzungen des Absatzes 1 Satz 1 Nr. 6 übersteigen, kann sie auf sechs Jahre verkürzt werden. "

 

Goethe C1 language test (or C2 if we manage to pass it) is higher as "ausreichende Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache" anyway, if I understand correctly?

 

One additional question: if persons are well integrated in German society (being member of voluntary or professional organisations, for example) is there a way to get naturalized before 6 years had passed?

 

Thank you.

 

 

[Zeitbuch 58]

The 6 year option is the option for people who are well integrated to naturalize early. I think that normally the only ways to naturalize earlier are marriage to a German citizen or previously having been a German citizen.

[blackarrow 7]

What exactly means that somebody is well integrated?

 

According to the law, it is related especially to the knowledge of German language. Of course, higher level of German, friendship with people who are born here, voluntarily work or higher salary would help, but are not the main thing here. Am I missing something?

[Ohng 45]

7 minutes ago, blackarrow said:

What exactly means that somebody is well integrated?

 

According to the law, it is related especially to the knowledge of German language. Of course, higher level of German, friendship with people who are born here, voluntarily work or higher salary would help, but are not the main thing here. Am I missing something?

 

 

It depends on each city and the best way is to ask the officer in your city.

 

Because it's in Section 8 [Discretionary naturalization], not Section 10. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_rustag/englisch_rustag.html

 

For example in Munich, German B2 is enough:

 

"Höherwertige Sprachprüfungen (Prüfung ob ggf. eine Verkürzung der Aufenthaltsdauer nach § 10 Abs. 3, Satz 2 StAG bzw. im Rahmen des § 8 StAG in Betracht kommen kann (in Verbindung mit staatsbürgerschaftlichem Engagement)"
 
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/dms/Home/Stadtverwaltung/Kreisverwaltungsreferat/fachspezifisch/HA-II/Einbuergerung/Dokumente/Positivliste-f-r-Internet.pdf

https://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtverwaltung/Kreisverwaltungsreferat/Staatsangehoerigkeit--Einbuergerung/Einbuergerungsstelle.html

 

[lotsofballoons 86]

Hi there, I have been researching this topic for several months now. I will be applying for citizenship in less than a year after 6 years of living here. The area where I live requires people applying for early citizenship to have completed 2+ years of community service that benefits German society. By the time I apply, I will have finished a little over a year of regular community service with an organization, but I hope to combine it with some other documents that show me in a good light (C2 language certificate, German university degree, an Ausbildung, permanent work contract, etc.). I have been told I have a decent chance.

 

I recommend getting started on preparing for your application NOW and not later. Join a community service organization (DRK, ASB, Feuerwehr, etc.) and be active. Join a sports club and be active there, too, they like seeing clubs on applications. Take the C2 language exam instead of just having C1. Take the integration test. EDIT- They also like seeing applications from people with permanent work contracts.

 

Also, don't live in Bavaria when applying. They don't like giving people early citizenship- I heard this from someone working in a Bürgeramt.

 

There is no way to get citizenship earlier than 6 years unless you've married a German citizen or have a German relative.

 

If you want specifics, visit your local Bürgerbüro.

[blackarrow 7]

So, if I understand correctly, it lays solely on the people who decide. Maybe it is than better to wait 7 or 8 years and omit the whole thing with 6 years, since nobody guarantees that I would get the citizenship. Also, joining the clubs just because I want the citizenship looks strange to me, beside the fact that I do not have a lot of free time to spent on something I do not like. I am member of professional guild for engineers which have meetings, seminars, but it is far away from the sport clubs or clubs that people are usually part of. My girlfriend works at university with students and writes PhD as well, hope that counts as something that most of the people do not have, but are important for integration.

[Ohng 45]

2 hours ago, Ohng said:

 

 

It depends on each city and the best way is to ask the officer in your city.

 

Because it's in Section 8 [Discretionary naturalization], not Section 10. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_rustag/englisch_rustag.html

 

For example in Munich, German B2 is enough:

 

"Höherwertige Sprachprüfungen (Prüfung ob ggf. eine Verkürzung der Aufenthaltsdauer nach § 10 Abs. 3, Satz 2 StAG bzw. im Rahmen des § 8 StAG in Betracht kommen kann (in Verbindung mit staatsbürgerschaftlichem Engagement)"
 
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/dms/Home/Stadtverwaltung/Kreisverwaltungsreferat/fachspezifisch/HA-II/Einbuergerung/Dokumente/Positivliste-f-r-Internet.pdf

https://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtverwaltung/Kreisverwaltungsreferat/Staatsangehoerigkeit--Einbuergerung/Einbuergerungsstelle.html

 

 

I did further research. It turns out that I was wrong.

 

It's actually in Section 10!  https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_rustag/englisch_rustag.html#p0054

 

"(3) Upon a foreigner confirming successful attendance of an integration course by presenting a certificate issued by the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (BMAF), the qualifying period stipulated in sub-section 1 shall be reduced to seven years. This qualifying period may be reduced to six years if the foreigner has made outstanding efforts at integration exceeding the requirements under sub-section 1, sentence 1, no. 6, especially if he or she can demonstrate his or her command of the German language."

 

But still, it's up to the local city who decides which German level is well  integrated!

 

Like I said, in Munich, they published the list of Höherwertige Sprachprüfungen and German B2 is one of them.

[LukeSkywalker 7,631]

58 minutes ago, blackarrow said:

So, if I understand correctly, it lays solely on the people who decide. Maybe it is than better to wait 7 or 8 years and omit the whole thing with 6 years, since nobody guarantees that I would get the citizenship.

You are already an EU citizen, so what's the hurry? The only advantage you have is that you can participate in the Bundestagswahl . I'm Dutch and live here for 12 years and have no wish to apply for the German citizenship since I will loose my Dutch one. I would pass the tests with 2 fingers in my nose.

 

I know a British guy who went to the authorities for German citizenship in Munich, where one person said his German is very good and another person said it's nowhere near B1, so now he has to do a test. He lives here more than 25 years and IMO his German is very good with high vocabulary, so yes it all depends who you meet at the authorities.

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

2 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

You are already an EU citizen, so what's the hurry? The only advantage you have is that you can participate in the Bundestagswahl . I'm Dutch and live here for 12 years and have no wish to apply for the German citizenship since I will loose my Dutch one. I would pass the tests with 2 fingers in my nose.

 

I know a British guy who went to the authorities for German citizenship in Munich, where one person said his German is very good and another person said it's nowhere near B1, so now he has to do a test. He lives here more than 25 years and IMO his German is very good with high vocabulary, so yes it all depends who you meet at the authorities.

 

I think the fact that Holland is restrictive with dual citizenship is key to your decision, though. Maybe if they weren't you would also be in a hurry to naturalize as German for the voting rights or whatever?

 

Funnily enough, Holland goes easy on Dutch people married to foreigners, where Dutch people can naturalize as the citizen of their spouse's nationality without losing their Dutch citizenship, and the spouse can become Dutch and keep their other nationality. I wish the Germans would consider this!

[blackarrow 7]

37 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

You are already an EU citizen, so what's the hurry? The only advantage you have is that you can participate in the Bundestagswahl . I'm Dutch and live here for 12 years and have no wish to apply for the German citizenship since I will loose my Dutch one. I would pass the tests with 2 fingers in my nose.

 

I know a British guy who went to the authorities for German citizenship in Munich, where one person said his German is very good and another person said it's nowhere near B1, so now he has to do a test. He lives here more than 25 years and IMO his German is very good with high vocabulary, so yes it all depends who you meet at the authorities.

 

To be honest, with all the things about EU, I am quite skeptical if ordinary people would have the same amount of freedom to work and reside in Germany. The nationality means really nothing to me, except safety to work and live in some other country, as well as to make family here. It will not make me more or less German or whatever and it is not imporant, although I would like to have voting right, since I live here and contribute to this community as well. I am not saying the Germany will pose some restrictions for the EU citizens in Germany, but that the things will be in whole EU different and thus effect ordinary people like myself.

[lotsofballoons 86]

19 hours ago, blackarrow said:

So, if I understand correctly, it lays solely on the people who decide. Maybe it is than better to wait 7 or 8 years and omit the whole thing with 6 years, since nobody guarantees that I would get the citizenship. Also, joining the clubs just because I want the citizenship looks strange to me, beside the fact that I do not have a lot of free time to spent on something I do not like. I am member of professional guild for engineers which have meetings, seminars, but it is far away from the sport clubs or clubs that people are usually part of. My girlfriend works at university with students and writes PhD as well, hope that counts as something that most of the people do not have, but are important for integration.

 

Being a member of a Sportverein does look good on an application for early citizenship since they have been a large part of German culture for quite a while. It shows your intention to integrate yourself into German culture, which is what you are trying to prove when applying after only 6 years.

 

Is your guild German? Does it benefit German society?

 

Does your girlfriend have a permanent work contract with the university? If so, that's fantastic and would make her application stand out even more. German university degrees are also important if you didn't attend a German school. I was told German university degrees from German language programs (Informatik in German, Biowissenschaften in German, etc.) look best of all. A foreigner doing a degree in English in Germany doesn't look so great, for example.

 

If you decide to apply after 7 years, you have to take the integration classes for 6 months. If after 8, you have it much easier and don't need to prove you are successfully integrated into German society or completed the integration classes and can apply without issue as long as you have all your documents in order.

[blackarrow 7]

The guild is the one orientated to the civil engineers working in Bavaria. There is further education available as well as meetings, seminars, books, newspapers... So, I guess it benefits German society as well.

 

My girlfriend has a permanent working contact with the University, and will get a PhD degree at the end. However, she is not member of any sport club or guild (obviously, because of the lack of free time). She passed the integration test "Leben in Deutschland".

 

One additional question, although it is off-topic: If the parents do not have a German citizenship at the time when the child is born, it is clear that the child will not have a right to get a German citizenship. However, after the parents receive it (maybe after three years or more, after fulfilling all requirements), does the child has the right to obtain German citizenship as well? Is it possible for the whole family to obtain it at once, since the parents met all requirements?

[justwise 5]

I am considering taking B2 exam so I can apply for Citizenship after 6 years of residence.I went to the Citizenship amt to make enquiries about my chances.
Surprisingly, the Beamter said I dont need to take B2 exam, that I am already considered well integrated here in Bad-Wü.He gave me the form and the list of document required and he asked me to submit back in September (It will be 6 years of residence in September).

I am not sure I will pass B2, so this gives me a lot of relief. But my fear is that if I meet another Beamter in September, he might object to this standing.
Does any one has experience with this law in Ba-Wü?

[GrGerman 13]

On 16.2.2018, 09:47:40, justwise said:

I am considering taking B2 exam so I can apply for Citizenship after 6 years of residence.I went to the Citizenship amt to make enquiries about my chances.
Surprisingly, the Beamter said I dont need to take B2 exam, that I am already considered well integrated here in Bad-Wü.He gave me the form and the list of document required and he asked me to submit back in September (It will be 6 years of residence in September).

I am not sure I will pass B2, so this gives me a lot of relief. But my fear is that if I meet another Beamter in September, he might object to this standing.
Does any one has experience with this law in Ba-Wü?

Did you got your german citizenship?

I am in same position as you in 6 month and need further suggestion

 

Studied my masters here in hochschule and working in german based company since 3 years.

Hold niederlassungserlaubnis already for 1 year from now

B2.2 from inlingua, i could speak and understand of B2 german as well with working level proficiency 

 

But no verein association so far , does all above requirement enough or should i wait for one year and do my integration test pass and get eligible after 7 years.

 

Looking forward for advice and suggestion

[swimmer 3,707]

You need  B2 qualification, not only course attendance.  That usually means the Goethe or telc qualification.

[2B_orNot2B 8,451]

2 hours ago, GrGerman said:

Did you got your german citizenship?

 

Look at the date of the post you responded to and read the text again whilst noting it is not yet September 2018.

 

2 hours ago, GrGerman said:

I am in same position as you in 6 month and need further suggestion

 

 

Caution: you may be mistaken in that assumption since, AFAIR, time spent studying is not credited at 1:1 temporal ratio.

 

If your German Hochschule studies were conducted in German then it may be possible, in many Bundesländer, not to have to submit evidence of having passed a B2 exam. If you took part in an English language course of studies you probably will be rquired to provide that evidence.

 

2B

[GrGerman 13]

10 hours ago, 2B_orNot2B said:

 

Look at the date of the post you responded to and read the text again whilst noting it is not yet September 2018.

 

 

Caution: you may be mistaken in that assumption since, AFAIR, time spent studying is not credited at 1:1 temporal ratio.

 

If your German Hochschule studies were conducted in German then it may be possible, in many Bundesländer, not to have to submit evidence of having passed a B2 exam. If you took part in an English language course of studies you probably will be rquired to provide that evidence.

 

2B

 

Quote

 

Hey its pretty mix response , i got one of  my friends study period is full considered, I could pass B2 cert exam as well if at has to be goethe.

[Ohng 45]

9 hours ago, GrGerman said:

 

Hey its pretty mix response , i got one of  my friends study period is full considered, I could pass B2 cert exam as well if at has to be goethe.

 

19 hours ago, 2B_orNot2B said:

 

Look at the date of the post you responded to and read the text again whilst noting it is not yet September 2018.

 

 

Caution: you may be mistaken in that assumption since, AFAIR, time spent studying is not credited at 1:1 temporal ratio.

 

If your German Hochschule studies were conducted in German then it may be possible, in many Bundesländer, not to have to submit evidence of having passed a B2 exam. If you took part in an English language course of studies you probably will be rquired to provide that evidence.

 

2B

 

I think the study period is counted in all states since April, 2016 according to this  https://www.bverwg.de/pm/2016/31 judgement

 

http://www.landesanwaltschaft.bayern.de/media/landesanwaltschaft/entscheidungen/2016_04_26_we_staatsangeh%C3%B6rigkeitsrecht.pdf

[Ohng 45]

22 hours ago, GrGerman said:

Did you got your german citizenship?

I am in same position as you in 6 month and need further suggestion

 

Studied my masters here in hochschule and working in german based company since 3 years.

Hold niederlassungserlaubnis already for 1 year from now

B2.2 from inlingua, i could speak and understand of B2 german as well with working level proficiency 

 

But no verein association so far , does all above requirement enough or should i wait for one year and do my integration test pass and get eligible after 7 years.

 

Looking forward for advice and suggestion

 

For Baden Wuerttemberg

 

https://im.baden-wuerttemberg.de/fileadmin/redaktion/m-im/intern/dateien/pdf/20170303_VwV_StAG_3._Fortschreibung_vom_03.03.2017.pdf

 

4.3.1.2 Rechtmäßiger gewöhnlicher Aufenthalt im Inland; anrechenbare Aufenthaltszeiten

c) eine Niederlassungserlaubnis, eine Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EU, eine Blaue Karte EU oder eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis nach dem Aufenthaltsgesetz besessen.

 

10.3.2 Zu Satz 2: Besondere Integrationsleistungen Weist der Einbürgerungsbewerber besondere Integrationsleistungen nach, kann die Frist des § 10 Abs. 1 Satz 1 auf sechs Jahre verkürzt werden. Besondere Integrationsleistungen können beispielsweise angenommen werden bei einem besonderen bürgerschaftlichen Engagement, bei herausragenden beruflichen Leistungen, bei erfolgreichem Abschluss eines Studiums an einer deutschsprachigen Hochschule oder Fachhochschule oder einem Nachweis von Sprachkenntnissen, die mindestens das Sprachniveau B 2 des Gemeinsamen Europäischen Referenzrahmens erreichen. Für den Nachweis der Sprachkenntnisse ist die Vorlage eines anerkannten Sprachenzertifikats erforderlich. Als Nachweise kommen zum Beispiel in Betracht:

 

[lotsofballoons 86]

I am posting this for future reference for anyone looking for more information about this topic. I received an Einbürgerungszusicherung yesterday in the mail.

 

My Einbürgerungsbehörde is very disorganized despite it being a relatively small city. I have been in Germany for exactly 6 years at the time of this post. At 5 years, I had e-mailed them to ask when I could make the application in relation to the number of years of my residency. I was told I could come at any time. So at 5.5 years, I went with all my documents to their office to fill out the application in the assumption that they'd need a half year to go through my things. So I filled it out and went home. I also had a very negative experience in which I was belittled by one of their workers during this meeting and can confirm that German bureaucrats can be incredibly jaded.

 

So time went by and I received 0 word from them. I decided to e-mail them after 4 months of waiting (2 months before I reached 6 years of residency). I received a reply stating I should withdraw my application because I had turned it in too early (I had stated during the meeting that I was at 5.5 years at that time, they said that was fine). So I wrote back agreeing that I would withdraw it and asked when I would get my 250€ fee back. I never received a reply, but I made an appointment to see them again so I could ask for the money back in person. I had lost hope at this point (multiple negative experiences with them) and decided to forget about the citizenship (until the standard 8 years) and move on with my life. And today the letter randomly arrived. I had heard literally nothing from them. No one wanted any current proof of employment, of my wages, of anything. I am super confused but also happy? So I can only recommend making the application at exactly 6 years to avoid confusion with your local Einbürgerungsbehörde.

 

My proof of "besondere Integrationsleistungen" that probably helped my application were...

 

1. Proof of a short Ausbildung with the German Red Cross

2. Proof of 1 year of community service with the German Red Cross

3. Having a Bachelor's degree in Germanistik (earned outside of Germany)

4. Having a Master's degree from a German university

6. Proof of 3 years of community service at a martial arts gym

7. C1 language certificate earned 6 years ago (I took C2 last week, incidentally)

8. I work im öffentlichen Dienst (civil service?) and my contract is 50% unbefristet

 

Anyways, I wish anyone else applying for German citizenship based on "besondere Integrationsleistungen" good luck and all the best.