Einbürgerung in 7 years

80 posts in this topic

Hi - I have completed 7 years in Germany and have been in employment since beginning of my stay. I had also done German language B1 exam, Leben in Deutschland and Einbürgerungstest. I recently visited KVR Einbürgerungsstelle for naturalization application.

 

The beamter said that I am not eligible for naturalization in 7 years as I have not done "Integration Kurs" although I have passed equivalent exams. I have done the exams only but have not participated in course as I have full time employment. I asked BAMF to issue me integration course certificate based on my exams certificates but they are also unable to do so as I have not participated in the integration classroom courses.

 

My point was even if I choose to do integration course classes for which I have completed the exams, it would be unfair for somebody who genuinely needs to do the classroom courses(as places are always limited). But this has not made any buzz either for BAMF or the beamter in KVR.

 

Any idea what else could be done?

 

Thanks

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Yep, I want to :) This would keep happening with many other folks and they(KVR/BAMF) need to realize this is year 2017. I had read gesetz online, and Integration Kurs is mentioned. Looks like BAMF and KVR are reading it too much literally and not considering I have already passed exams what Integration course folks would eventually do (even more than that). Forcing me to join Integration course is waste of govt's money as well as genuine place for somebody.

 

Could somebody guide how to proceed legally in this case? Should I ask for written response and go to the lawyer? Also, does it make any sense in the opinion of elite members of the forum? I want to fix this situation once for all.

 

 

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Did you take the Orientierungskurs? Or not that either? And did you take DTZ or a different language test? I hear that the language portion can be taken in parts- I wonder if just the last part of the language course or even just the Orientierungskurs would be sufficient?

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Interesting!!!!

 

I also live in Munich. Why don't you take B2 exam and choose to apply in this case after 6 years?

 

"Höherwertige Sprachprüfungen (Prüfung ob ggf. eine Verkürzung der Aufenthaltsdauer nach § 10 Abs. 3, Satz 2 StAG bzw. im Rahmen des § 8 StAG in Betracht kommen kann (in Verbindung mit staatsbürgerschaftlichem Engagement)"

 

http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/dms/Home/Stadtverwaltung/Kreisverwaltungsreferat/fachspezifisch/HA-II/Einbuergerung/Dokumente/Positivliste-f-r-Internet.pdf

https://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtverwaltung/Kreisverwaltungsreferat/Staatsangehoerigkeit--Einbuergerung/Einbuergerungsstelle.html

 

I will try this option in 2 years.

 

 

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In Munich you should dress in Dirndl oder Lederhosen and speak some sentences in Bavarian. Bring a bottle of Augustiner in the room as well. This way you can skip the Integrationskurs and Sprachkurs.

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@Zeitbuch No I didn't take the Orientation course but took the Leben In Deutschland exam(as well as Einbürgerungstest) which happens at the end of Orientation course. Orientation course classes also run for the 1.5 months or so and not possible due to the job. I didn't choose to trick the system by just registering for classes and not attending.

I have the DTZ B1 as well.

 

I had not planned for applying after 6 years, thats why did not prepare for B2. Also, not sure if B2 would have certainly helped after 6 years.

 

Right now, its just about having all exam certificates in order for 7 years application, but they want me to attend Integration course classes on govt's expenditure. Isn't it great ?

 

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Below the 8 years it comes down to a judgement call by civil servants. The minimum you need to do to be considered before the 8 years is to prove better than B1 language skills and preferably also some sort of voluntary work or a club membership or something. Just passing the tests that you have to pass even after 8 years isn't going to cut it. 

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@murphaph I agree about your point about club membership and all for 6 years consideration.

 

My main point here is about understanding 7 years rule correctly. The law states about completing integration course, I have the exam certificates and those should be deemed as completion of integration course. If not, then they should probably explain why not.

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Didn't I read somewhere else on this forum that one can ask BAMF for a certificate if one takes the two tests independently and wants early naturalization? I forgot which thread, unfortunately, but maybe someone can link it. So, I find it odd that it is being refused, unless the BAMF field office in CSU-land is refusing it, in which case I am not surprised.

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I saw some posts on info4alien about the certificate not being enough, but participation being required. It's not just about complete, but "erfolgreicher Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs"

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@kaffeemitmilch @Zeitbuch Here is the response from BAMF. I don't trust my German knowledge to understand it 100% but it's clear they are refusing. If you have any legal reference to issue Integration course certificate after having done only exams, beer is on me.

 

Response from BAMF:

Der  erfolgreiche Test „Leben in Deutschland“ kann jedoch, wenn er mit einer konkreten Teilnahme am Integrationskurs verbunden ist, zu einer Verkürzung der Einbürgerungsfrist von 8 auf 7 Jahre führen. 

Seit dem 01. Juli 2013 sind die Bescheinigungen des Bundesamtes für Migration und Flüchtlinge über die Teilnahme am Test "Leben in Deutschland" geändert worden: Aus den neuen Bescheinigungen geht nun hervor, ob der Testteilnehmer an einem lntegrationskurs teilgenommen hat oder nicht.

Dies bedeutet, dass Externe mit einem Nachweis der ausreichenden Deutschkenntnisse (Schule, Telc Zertifikat etc.) zwar am LiD teilnehmen dürfen, dies aber nicht zur verkürzten Einbürgerung führt - wie bis vor dem 01.07.2013.

Die Verkürzung auf 7 Jahre ist nur noch für Teilnehmer des Integrationskurses möglich. Wer die Einbürgerungsfrist verkürzen will, muss regulär am Integrationskurs teilnehmen.

Es werden demnach auch zwei verschiedene „Integrationskurszertifikate“ ausgestellt. Nur auf dem Zertifikat für Integrationskursteilnehmende wird „im Rahmen der Teilnahme am Integrationskurs“ vermerkt.Für externe Test-Teilnehmende entfällt dieser Vermerk. Das Zertifikat gilt zwar als Nachweis zur Einbürgerung nach acht Jahren, dient aber nicht als Nachweis zur Verkürzung nach §10 Abs. 3 Satz 1 Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz (StAG).

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, DreamLight said:

@kaffeemitmilch @Zeitbuch Here is the response from BAMF. I don't trust my German knowledge to understand it 100% but it's clear they are refusing. If you have any legal reference to issue Integration course certificate after having done only exams, beer is on me.

 

Response from BAMF:

Der  erfolgreiche Test „Leben in Deutschland“ kann jedoch, wenn er mit einer konkreten Teilnahme am Integrationskurs verbunden ist, zu einer Verkürzung der Einbürgerungsfrist von 8 auf 7 Jahre führen. 

Seit dem 01. Juli 2013 sind die Bescheinigungen des Bundesamtes für Migration und Flüchtlinge über die Teilnahme am Test "Leben in Deutschland" geändert worden: Aus den neuen Bescheinigungen geht nun hervor, ob der Testteilnehmer an einem lntegrationskurs teilgenommen hat oder nicht.

Dies bedeutet, dass Externe mit einem Nachweis der ausreichenden Deutschkenntnisse (Schule, Telc Zertifikat etc.) zwar am LiD teilnehmen dürfen, dies aber nicht zur verkürzten Einbürgerung führt - wie bis vor dem 01.07.2013.

Die Verkürzung auf 7 Jahre ist nur noch für Teilnehmer des Integrationskurses möglich. Wer die Einbürgerungsfrist verkürzen will, muss regulär am Integrationskurs teilnehmen.

Es werden demnach auch zwei verschiedene „Integrationskurszertifikate“ ausgestellt. Nur auf dem Zertifikat für Integrationskursteilnehmende wird „im Rahmen der Teilnahme am Integrationskurs“ vermerkt.Für externe Test-Teilnehmende entfällt dieser Vermerk. Das Zertifikat gilt zwar als Nachweis zur Einbürgerung nach acht Jahren, dient aber nicht als Nachweis zur Verkürzung nach §10 Abs. 3 Satz 1 Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz (StAG).

 

Here's that BAMF message text in English just for confirmation:

 

Quote

The successful test "Leben in Deutschland", insofar as it is in connection with actual participation in the integration course, can lead to a shortening of the naturalization period from 8 to 7 years.

 

Since the 1st of July 2013 the BAMF certificates of participation in the "Leben in Deutschland" test have changed: The new certificates indicate whether the test participant had participated in an integration course or not.

 

This means that, although they are allowed to participate in the LiD test with a proof of sufficient knowledge of German (school, Telc certificate, etc.), this does not lead to a shortened naturalization period - as was the case before 1 July 2013.

 

The reduction to 7 years is only possible for participants of the integration course. Those who want to shorten the naturalization period must participate regularly in the integration course.

 

Accordingly, two different "integration course certificates" are also issued. Only on the certificate for integration course participants is "within the frame of participation in the integration course" noted. This statement is omitted for external test participants. That *[latter] certificate is valid as evidence for naturalization after eight years but does not serve as a proof of reduction according to § 10 para 3 sentence 1 nationality law (StAG).

 

*[my edit]

 

Quote

If you have any legal reference to issue Integration course certificate after having done only exams, beer is on me.

 

As you correctly surmised BAMF did effectively issue a refusal in the form of an explanation complete with legal reference as to what the grounds were so, if you still really want to reduce that time frame, you should probably invest any spare beer money in paying for participation in an integration course - always assuming you can actually manage to find a place on one in the Munich area.

 

If you can't attend morning courses due to your work schedule you need to try and find an evening course. I haven't looked for a couple of years though I expect there are still several alternative links for Munich on the BAMF site however the ones that spring to mind are of course the Volkshochschulen (VHS München).

 

Here's wishing you the necessary patience and good luck.

 

2B

 

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Just to update the folks for community knowledge, my application has been rejected today -   KVR Einbürgerungsstelle sent the application to Regierung von Oberbayern for decision. In Bayern, they have to actually send every application to Regierung which does not have normal case of 8 years. 

 

Einbürgerungsstelle impacts the decision in a way that they put their opinion. In my particular matter, Reigerung sided with Einbürgerungsstelle that successful participation in Integration course means attending the classes regularly and passing the exams. They did not agree with just passing the exams for 7 years entitlement.

 

It is bit strange but it is the way as it is. I am pretty sure courts will struck down or ask the legislation to improve it as it is unfair with full time employed persons, but I don't have the energy/money to go to the courts.

 

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4 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

See my post of 25th of May.

 

Yup, indeed. I took chances as it is 2017 :) and some bureaucracy might have improved.

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Most people I know who have jumped the hoops early have been doing voluntary work, or some other proof of awesomeness. To be fair, it would probably take just as long to get the hours done now as just waiting for it. And cost more.

 

I think they won't let the exception pass - they have changed it for a reason, so that people are forced into a classroom situation where they have to interact with staff and with each other, in the hopes that a meaningful experience of Germanity will result therefore making them more likely to be conformist citizens. I reckon, anyway. ;)

 

Anyway, good luck and maybe it will go your way. 

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Sorry about the rejection @DreamLight :(. One question I have about this is if participation in the orientation course component classes, but simply passing the German test qualifies as participation? 

 

And @kiplette- I'm really interested in hearing what specific types of voluntary work they have been doing or what other factors help. I'm a few years out from being eligible even for the 6 year deadline and trying to figure out what my options are.

 

Unrelatedly, something I'd like to point out to possibly reduce confusion/summarize options for people reading this later- there are a few posts here that seem to conflate the two different options for getting citizenship early. There are two separate options, as outlined in the law: "Weist ein Ausländer durch die Bescheinigung des Bundesamtes für Migration und Flüchtlinge die erfolgreiche Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs nach, wird die Frist nach Absatz 1 auf sieben Jahre verkürzt. Bei Vorliegen besonderer Integrationsleistungen, insbesondere beim Nachweis von Sprachkenntnissen, die die Voraussetzungen des Absatzes 1 Satz 1 Nr. 6 übersteigen, kann sie auf sechs Jahre verkürzt werden."

 

Or to summarize in English-

After 6 years: This requires B2+ German, possibly volunteer work, and/or other factors that show integration. What is accepted seems somewhat subjective and up to the people reviewing the app, and may also vary by location. I'd like to develop a better idea of what has worked in practice where to show good integration for naturalization after 6 years. What level of German is required where? How long does one need to volunteer and what sort of volunteer work qualifies? Are both B2+ German AND volunteer work required, or just one, or does it vary? What other factors help?

 

After 7 years: This only requires B1 German, but requires "die erfolgreiche Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs". As this thread shows, while it is possible to take only the integration course tests and receive a certificate, that is not sufficient. But it is sufficient if one takes both the 6-month German course and orientation course (which I think is only 2 or 3 weeks if done full time?). The thing that hasn't been tested is if taking the classes+the test for the orientation component, but only the test for the German component also qualifies as "Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs". If so, this may be the best option for people who already have B1-level German.

 

The other thing I'd like to more precisely understand is how naturalization after 6 or 7 years differs from naturalization after 8 years legally. Generally, I hear naturalization after 8 years referred to as Anspruchseinbürgerung, but naturalization after 6 years as discretionary naturalization. What precisely is the difference between these two categories (is it the use of "wird" vs. "kann" in the law)? Which category does the 7 year option fall under (it is a shortened alternative option, but use of "wird" maybe implies Anspruchseinbürgerung)? What factors can be used to reject people after 6 or 7 years that can't be used after 8? How does the processing of applications differ for naturalization after 6, 7 or, 8 years? And if someone applies after 6 or 7 years and is rejected, does that create any problems for reapplying after 8 years?

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@DreamLight  I am sorry to hear that! I also live in Munich and plan to do it after 6 years with B2.

 

A friend of mine who lives in Munich, he got the Naturalization Certificate only after 4 months of the application but he applied after 8 years.

 

Another one who lives in Reutlingen also got it within 4 months of the application. He has about 6 years of living here and almost the time was for his master degree (in German) and DaF course before that. He got Bluecard and applied for the citizenship right after he got the job. 

 

 

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zeitbuch - Tafel has been successful, as has a prominent position in a Verein (not just membership but actually Vorstand), possibly membership would be enough, I just don't know. 

              - kid#1 has a scholarship with a German organisation, and she was told that would help for a 6 years application.

              - prizes at national level for an achievement (more usually a kid thing, I guess)   

 

If you still have more than a year to go before the 6 year point, then get round to the Tafel/Tierheim or whatever interests you, a year is good, more would be better.

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