Cost of a Netto gewinnermittlung for visa renewal?

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Hi all,

 

So I went for my visa renewal for freelance English teaching and childcare and got a 3 month extension. My German is a bit hazy but as I understood it (and my German friend who was with me), she said to bring a steuerbescheid or a netto gewinnermittlung done by a professional. Both are listed on the 'things to bring for next time' list. For one, I don't understand why my bescheid for 2016 wasn't good enough. I did my taxes through Elster and received a letter from the finanzamt showing what I owed in taxes, and brought that and proof that I paid it. I also brought in all of my invoices and bank statements proving they were paid to me.

 

Anyway, so I have called about 8 steuerberaters now and only 1 said she could help me get the form I need, but that it would cost 750-1000 euro and she doesn't even think she could have it done in time (by July). After expenses I only had about 8500 taxable income, so it is absolutely crazy for me to have to pay 1000 for this stupid form.

 

Does anyone have any experience getting a netto gewinnermittlung, or know if there is something else I can bring to the ausländerbehörde instead that might satisfy her? And I am still not exactly sure what a netto gewinnermittlung IS and how it differs from an audit or tax return.


Thanks for any help!



 

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This is not about 2016 - you already provided the proof for the 2016 profit, the 2016 Einkommensteuer-Bescheid.

 

They are after a statement signed by a Steuerberater telling them how high your profit was from January to May 2017 (or up till whenever you will submit the visa renewal).

 

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2 hours ago, kimochiwarui said:

only 1 said she could help me get the form I need, but that it would cost 750-1000 euro and she doesn't even think she could have it done in time (by July). After expenses I only had about 8500 taxable income, so it is absolutely crazy for me to have to pay 1000 for this stupid form.

 

Perhaps the ABH is concerned that you don't earn enough.

 

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@PandaMunich can please correct me if my AB agent did the wrong thing, but I was able to clarify all issues with my Umsatzsteuererklaerung for my visa renewals. Maybe that was the document she was hoping to get? If the income from January to May is over €8500 (based on what the OP just said about their profit after expenses) then they fully expect that the op is doing the UST filing and should have the paperwork for that. 

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9 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

If the income from January to May is over €8500 (based on what the OP just said about their profit after expenses) then they fully expect that the op is doing the UST filing and should have the paperwork for that. 

 

I understood from her post that her taxable income for 2016 was 8,500€, but reading it again, I'm not sure.

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The AB agent was wrong, important is the profit, not the turnover (= Umsatz, which is what's contained in the Umsatzsteuererklärung); and you might want to re-read about the Kleinunternehmer turnover limits at the start of the turquoise section of the TT Elster wiki.

 

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Well, bizarre. Eight years of renewing a visa (sometimes for one year/sometimes for three) and my Ab never asked for this document. I let her copy my USt declaration and my bank info and she was happy. Guess I got lucky.

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Ok so, I never received any notifications that there were replies to my post so I never bothered checking again. It was a really stressful time last year and I forgot about this, but it is coming again soon! Maybe my experience can help someone else.

 

In the end I hand-wrote a 'Gewinn- und Verlustrechnung' for 2016, all of this was about 2016 and all I brought for 2017 were invoices and proof of payment. I basically just wrote my Einnahmen, and then listed all my Ausgaben and then my total Gewinn. Then I took that poor looking piece of paper to a steuerberater, who I only got into contact with because my friend used to work with him. He then just officially typed up everything I wrote and stamped it. He also reassured me that my 2016 bescheid was what she needed and he didn't know what she was on about asking for an additional bescheid. He charged me around 70 euro to do that which was a relief after the high numbers I'd been quoted, but still a fair amount considering it was so simple. I don't know if maybe he gave me a discount out of pity or maybe that's the usual going rate for this extremely simple document. It seems odd to me that none of the steuerberaters I called had offered this simple solution and had thought I was asking for a full tax return or something.

 

The most frustrating part of it was that after all that stress, it was a new guy at the AB and he didn't even ask for it. He gave me only a one year renewal citing the reasons as 1) He needed a special form from my health insurance since it is not German and 2) He needed my netto gewinn ermittlung. After I pointed out I DID have it and he hadn't asked for it, he just said ''Oh.'' and then told me to bring it again next year. Also the lady 3 months prior had not mentioned any problems with my health insurance, or else I could have easily gotten the necessary document in that time. Doesn't matter how big the stack of papers you bring are, there's always something else...

 

Anyway, hope that clears up some confusion!

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I see hope after finding this post @kimochiwarui

Thank you very much for sharing your visa renewal experience and pointing out clearly that AB need a netto gewinnermittlung signed by a professional like a steuerberater. (the officer in-charge refused to explain why in my case as a Kleinunternehmer a steuerberater is necessary) Hopefully I can get it done within my recent three months visa. 

I will do the same to prepare the following things before meeting a steuerberater:
1. Gewinn- und Verlustrechnung for 2018
2. Invoices and proof of payment in 2019
3. Bescheid 2018 from Finanzamt
Am I missing something? or is there “new” things again from the AB?

Wish you @kimochiwarui and all other freelancers in Toytown lots of luck in the visa renewal in 2019 and so on forward. 

p.s. Looking for an English speaking steuerberater for getting that proof. I am based in Düsseldorf. I’ve contacted the Ageras agent but with no luck. Any recommendations would be appreciated. 

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