Studying Law in Germany

68 posts in this topic

@Atrag

I'm not sure how you can say that a degree in Britain would cost less just because I would get a student loan. Due to rising tuition fees and my status as not being a citizen it would cost around £40000 to £50000+ depending on how tuition fees change for EU students, along with the fees of the LPC and BPTC plus living costs becoming a lawyer could cost in total around £80000, depending on whether i'd get a training contract with a firm which paid for the LPC or a very good pupillage. I would also not get a maintenance loan during my studies as i'm not a citizen, and if i was i would still only get the minimum amount due to my parents' income, thus meaning that they would have to forgot anyway. I also do not want to start my career instantly being in debt, whether the money has to be paid now or later makes not difference.This British attitude around debt and credit is another thing i don't like.

 

Studying in Germany oth would cost much less due to their generally be no tuition fees just a semester fee. I would also generally be able to work to earn money and whilst i wouldn't be earning that much during term time, i would be able to earn quite a lot during the holidays to supplement what i'd earn during the term, with my parents maybe giving a monthly allowance.

 

I also don't believe that it's setting me up to fail, whilst it would be harder, there are quite a lot of international students that move to england to study law and you don't see them failing. It'd be just as easy to fail at law in the UK, it comes down to the individual's effort, and in reference to linguistic ability, i do intend to take intensive language courses a year before enrolling whilst also taking language courses during the term which are specialised for law if i'd need them.

 

 

 

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@zeino

 

I agree that there is no general 'truly great lawyer' as it depends on what someone's speciality is, and in the end it is down to the university to accept me or not. And if anyone knows best, it's the universities themselves

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@futjurastudent

 

As I understand it: if you have a right to long term residence in you UK, which I assume you do, then you pay the fees as a home student:

 

https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status

 

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This British attitude around debt and credit is another thing i don't like.

 

Well, as others have said, it is very unlikely you will be able to support yourself solely with a part time job. Especially especially that you will probably have to take German language courses alongside your degree.

 

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I also don't believe that it's setting me up to fail, whilst it would be harder, there are quite a lot of international students that move to england to study law and you don't see them failing.

 

 

Yes you do. Foreign students have a higher dropout rate than home students.

 

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It'd be just as easy to fail at law in the UK, it comes down to the individual's effort

 

Actually, I can tell you from experience, that passing an LLB in the UK is not at all difficult. Getting high grades can be but still most only really study a few weeks before the exams. I don't know how this compares to Germany.

 

 

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I agree that there is no general 'truly great lawyer' as it depends on what someone's speciality is, and in the end it is down to the university to accept me or not. And if anyone knows best, it's the universities themselves

 

 

 

Admission in Germany doesn't work like that. Assuming you meet the language requirement, the applicants are ranked according to their grades and however many places there are are how many people are admitted. In most degrees 100% of the applicants are admitted. It isn't like in the UK where they admit you based on personal statement, experience, interview etc etc - admission is automatic based on your grades.

 

At LMU last year the NC (the boundary for the grade you need) for law was 2.5. This means around 2 B grades and a C at A-level.

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3 hours ago, Atrag said:

 

Well, as others have said, it is very unlikely you will be able to support yourself solely with a part time job. Especially especially that you will probably have to take German language courses alongside your degree.

@Atrag

 

Like i said my parents would be able to support me,

3 hours ago, Atrag said:

 

Yes you do. Foreign students have a higher dropout rate than home students.

 

A statistic doesn't prove anything, in the end it will matter how much effort i put into it, yes international students do have it harder due to the language barrier but they can still succeed

 

3 hours ago, Atrag said:

 

Actually, I can tell you from experience, that passing an LLB in the UK is not at all difficult. Getting high grades can be but still most only really study a few weeks before the exams. I don't know how this compares to Germany.

 

I don't care to get an LLB from a mid rate university in britain at the same cost of getting one at Oxbridge, when i can get a law degree in Germany for free, if i were to get into a high ranking university then I might reconsider but Im not gonna stay for some low ranking russell group. You might think the British education system is better cuz you're 'more advanced' but it's really not

 

3 hours ago, Atrag said:

 

As I understand it: if you have a right to long term residence in you UK, which I assume you do, then you pay the fees as a home student:

 

https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status

 

it doesn't matter to me how much i'd pay cuz i'd still need to get a student loan which i don't want.

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7 hours ago, Atrag said:

 

Yes of course there areas in which a German trained lawyer would use English rather than German but then what is the point of studying in Germany? He could do an English LLB then a German LLM. 

 

I assume there is no special admission requirement in Munich - it will be like all the rest. If you have intermediate German language skills and the necessary grades then you're in. 

 

The OP wishes to build his future in Germany for personal reasons and as far as I understand, they also wish to be able to represent at court so it is best (within this logic) that he studies in the system that makes it the easiest. 

 

I personally don't think he is setting himself up for failure due to factors related with language. LMU will probably want something like a B2+ or C1, which are good levels. They say C2 from Goethe, DSH 2 and DAF 4, which makes me think that these different levels will meet at a B2+ minimum DSH2 / 1 but it may be DSH 2/ 2, that is a C1. And if he enters at that level, years of study at LMU would be an intensive learning period in terms of German, too. I don't think he will lose much because of this. With Polish as his native, an LMU degree and his English, I think there would be many corporations willing to employ him for instance. I also guess he will be able to find a masters or PhD scholarship from the US rather easily. 

 

I know what you mean by the British higher education system - I studied in the UK as an overseas postgrad student. I think many of us international students have become experts in passing English language tests without much transfer of that knowledge into active language skills but with the preparatory period the OP is planning to spend in Germany, I think he will be able to conduct himself better than the majority of foreign students across the planet :) 

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@zeino

Thank you! my father moved here not knowing that much English apart from a short six month stint here in manchester as a research assistant during his degrees and what he learnt in Poland. His english was good enough to survive and he said he picked it up really quickly as he had no option but to speak english as there was only his family with whom he could speak polish to as this was in 2003 so before the influx of Polish people due to the EU. My mother was very similar as she didn't know any english but took lessons at a college and is currently a teacher, another job requiring a high proficiency. One learns a language quickest when they need to, and if a german was to switch to english i could always pretend i don't speak it only Polish, which the German definitely wouldn't know so they'd have no choice but to speak German to me therefore making total immersion much easier. @Atrag

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I think it is good that you have confidence in yourself and you feel ready for the challenge. I also think Atrag has given you good ideas about what to do and what not to do - in the sense that you don't want to be among the profile they have described realistically. That does exist, but yes, you don't have to place yourself among them :) 

 

I would say the most important thing would be to treat this like a marathon, spending your energy wisely, sustaining your success over a relatively long period of time. Learning to rest when you need that, learning to not get disappointed with yourself if you are a habitual high achiever, and then it will happen. (Be careful not to burn your brains :) ) If not exactly in the time-frame that you designed, then perhaps a year later. Also, please remember that if you build your foundation well, you will be able to change or adjust your plans easily if that becomes necessary for whatever reason. Remember that you can live anywhere, and there are lots of different opportunities for you across the world. Maybe one day, you will also opt for the UK for different studies, who knows. 

 

As a foreign student, you will be approaching texts from a distance at first, but that is not always a disadvantage. It can add something to you if you use that well because your radar will be on and you will be extra careful about obscurities perhaps. 

 

I have a relative who finished her masters in law in Germany. She doesn't speak German, so she chose ILF and that to be able to study with her BF although she had a scholarship from elsewhere. But her English is kind of crap, too, if you judge her with very proper standards. I would say the same for her mother-tongue actually :) But she is a confident person who knows what she is good at and what she is not. Today she is a very successful employee at an international firm who does so well - she has learnt to control her impatience and her intelligence is now showing through. A very good friend of mine, however, with a PhD from a much better university has a way of depressing anyone who wishes to be his client. He has great success in representing victimized people in criminal law but most people run away from him if they have an option :) He just doesn't have the personality for office-based practices. But he is a very valuable academic today. Discover what you are good at, and you will be sorted. 

 

 

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@zeino

 

thank you. yes you're right and thanks for the great advice. i do see the points that atrag has put across but i don't believe that everyone automatically belongs to that group.

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