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Bundesliga - Does anybody really care?

85 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, dstanners said:

I'm not sure the problems at Bayern are entirely down to the coach though

No, I think it's mostly Hoeneß and, to a lesser extent, Rummenigge. They're the ones who can't seem to find the right combination of coach and high-priced talent.

 

I speculated a bit about this last spring:

On 4/18/2018, 2:35:41, El Jeffo said:

Bayern has had a pretty good run lately, winning their 6th championship in a row, but there have been regular surprises in the past. I blame Bayern's strategy of buying key players from other clubs that threaten their dominance (and usually wasting them on the bench - see Götze, Gomez et al.) for both the regularity of them winning the championship and the relative weakness of the rest of the league. It also squanders their resources and has prevented them from getting the really expensive talent lately.

 

But then, I also said this a month later:

On 5/14/2018, 10:52:13, El Jeffo said:

Unfortunately, it's looking increasingly like Preetz will have to go before anything close to that happens. But he's Gegenbauer's golden boy, which means we'll probably keep buying mediocre talent and chewing through coaches every 2-3 seasons instead.

so what do I know?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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45 minutes ago, dstanners said:

Whilst it's good to see effzeh running away with the 2 Liga (just cursed them for tonight), it's a pity they aren't in the top flight this year - looks like a much less predictable affair. I

 

Yes.  Just a season change that did not work, and they were gone.   They were always the likely winner anyway but now of course Terrode's unstoppable.   Pretty depressing for the rest of us because they were the League 1 team we really could not handle at all in league 1 (the last was 1-6 at home) but of course we were thinking "maybe, at least without Modeste..." :rolleyes:.  Speaking of which:

 

Quote

My son and I were at Olympiastadion when Hertha beat Bayern 2:0 

 

When Pokal 2 was drawn, before that second calamitous set of four, I was bullishly going "OK, happy take on almost anyone".   Not so sure now about hosting Hertha, another team we did not have a great record against :lol:.

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This counts are Buli as it's likely to originate from there so it is time to ask - Who might the next manager of Germany national team be?

 

I have obviously attempted to crowdsource among my football mates and made vague suggestions (often based on little more than knowing they are a top level) but everyone seems to be rejected, usually on some partisan and / or subjective view (i.e. "I don't like them").

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The German FA seem to give far more weight to contracts than their English (or Spanish) counterparts. I'm amazed how after the World Cup, everyone just seemed resigned to the fact that they HAD to keep Jogi, because he had only just signed a new contract. Likewise, they seem to think that Klopp is completely out of bounds because he is under contract with Liverpool. So, I reckon they will just keep going with Jogi. I thought they were pretty generous to him after last night's defeat.

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I suppose they are very change averse - Klinsmann was the one person in recent times who just got on and led some - and now he and Bierhoff are quite dominant, in many ways understandably and justifiably.    They also missed Tuchel (who my friends particularly do not like) and I could just about live with Rangnick (also not liked).   If it is some sort of weird Mr Inoffensive Nobody Actually Hates Him contest, that probably leaves the guy Christian from Freiburg on a shortlist of one.

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21 minutes ago, dstanners said:

Likewise, they seem to think that Klopp is completely out of bounds because he is under contract with Liverpool. So, I reckon they will just keep going with Jogi. I thought they were pretty generous to him after last night's defeat.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Klopp has been on record as saying he wants to be at Liverpool for 7 years - the same length of time he managed Mainz and Dortmund. 

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This is also  a large issue for national federations these days.  A top club job will be more attractive to many top names than the national team.    No reason for likes of Tuchel to choose it above PSG either.    Therefore some people are suggesting it should be someone less experienced, who is trained up for it, or other internal candidate.

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The DFB were stupid to be dithering over the last couple of years when 'popular with the Mannschaft' Jögi Löw was already failing to kick butt and take names when half his team picks were acting like prima-donnas with their diving, falling, hacking and fail-passing theatricals.

 

The DFB chef was a sports journo with henchmen who may have had distinguished profi careers but they're all making out like gangbusters on the sponsorship funding. They seem to turn into a bunch of self-serving softies pretty quickly when it's warm and cosy enough.

 

They should've put their hard faces on and, instead of signing a premature extension with Jögi, waited for the WC result before deciding.

 

Those wait-and-see tactics probably cost them a golden opportunity to have had some preparatory words with the young Julian Nagelsmann from TSG Hoffenheim just as his local magic was appearing to wear thin and before he accepted the offer to go to RB Leipzig. They could have got  good 10 - 15 years out of a trainer of his age.

 

National coaches actions may be under the national microscope whenever there's an unexpected loss, but they're never under the amount of close-up weekly abusive critisism generated by a repetetively losing local team. You don't have to look to far to see how poorly some of the BuLi managers can handle that.

 

2B

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I think Klopp will not leave Liverpool until he has achieved something (winning the title) or feels he cannot take them any further.  And he will be there for a while yet.

 

If the German FA want to appoint somebody soon then Jupp Heynckes is still available!   

 

Or if they want to wait a few months, then I think Kovac would be available!!

 

 

But seriously, I think the success of both Loew and Klingsmann proved that you don't necessarily need a manager with lots of Bundesliga experience to do the national job.  The English FA are also seeing this with Southgate.  The job is different and somebody who works in a different way and can shape players who he only sees a few times a year requires different skills compared to managing them every day.

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I have just read the Arsène Wegner has said he wants to go back into top level management from the start of next year - remote possibility or will a German always manage the national team?

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It would certainly be unprecedented.

 

Personally, I think the Germans would see it as an act of resignation if a foreigner were appointed head coach. Germans are supposed other countries' teams, not the other way around. It iz ze order of zhings.

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2 hours ago, pmd said:

I have just read the Arsène Wegner has said he wants to go back into top level management from the start of next year - remote possibility or will a German always manage the national team?

 

He has very very close links with the DFB of course, including Löw and Bierhoff, and he was born in Alsace and speaks German.   He's about as good a cultural fit as most non-DACH guys would be, probably.   It would be a bit going backwards possibly, replacing the protege(s) succession line with the mentor.

 

I think it is true that managing a national team is now more different to managing a club, these days.   

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Wenger in :ph34r:?  Coach change rumours incoming.    That'd be a turn up, even we had the "out" protests form time to time.    Whatever, Kovac appears to have quite a short shelflife.  Same really.

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1 hour ago, swimmer said:

Whatever, Kovac appears to have quite a short shelflife.  Same really.

I guess we can put this Hoeneß statement on the same shelf as "I'm an honest taxpayer".

 

5bc994509e593_spass11.jpg.79364753041f1f

For the non-German speakers:

ULLI (Hoeneß): Tax fraud

KALLE (Rummenigge): Smuggling luxury goods

FRANZL (Beckenbauer): Adultry

BRENO: Firebug

FRANKY (Ribery): Sex with minors

 

We're the champions... in breaking laws

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Clearly I'm a bit late to the party, and it is early days, but this here

 

https://www.bundesliga.com/de/bundesliga/tabelle/2018-2019/

 

gives me wood! Bayern who?

 

Shardenfroyder...there are some words in German that are ...perfekt.

 

BTW, another really exciting season of Aussie rules has just come to an end. At one point it looked like any one of about 6 teams could win the premiership. With a bit of luck something like that will happen this year here.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

BRENO: Firebug

 

Firebug :huh:?

 

It's every bit as gerontocratic as the DFB.   Again, perhaps understandably given their success but at some point they really will need new blood.   Will be interesting to see what our most illustrious old boy, Bruno, tries to do against them, they mad a bright start. 

 

Anyway, I have quite enjoyed two weeks of no Buli, recovering from 0 0 4 4 12 0 in the last set :angry:.    Not exactly expecting more tomorrow, but away so not going.  Then we have three homes in a couple weeks inc the Hertha game.

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15 minutes ago, swimmer said:

Firebug :huh:?

That's the literal translation of "Feuerteufel", yes. The legal term is "Arsonist".

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HA! And after all the rumors and gossip, the big SURPRISE press conference turned out to be Trumpian bullshit: Rummenigge and Hoeneß lambasted the press for reporting on how shitty Bayern is doing, even going so far as to quote Article 1 of the German constitution ("human dignity is inviolable").

 

Rummenigge whined "We're not going to accept it any longer." Moaning further, he said they "won't put up with the degrading reporting any more" and spoke of imaginary "disrespectful comments" and "fake facts". They say they've already taken legal steps to stop the media pounding and will continue to do so.

 

Fucking wankers. That's not how you make friends or win championships.

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Sad to say I missed this but, reading the aghast astonishment on twitter at the awfulness of it, that really does take the biscuit :angry:.    And - despite one's dignity being inviolable - it's apparently entirely some particular foreign player's fault they did not win ECL :rolleyes:.   So more scapegoating.  Sounds familiar.   They also have some of the same insularity as the DFB -  pesky foreigners, not playing proper football, which Guardiola and his team also got.

 

It's also a familiar line now - the wealthy and priviliged playing the victim.   Right out of the Trump and the alt-right playbook.

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When minnow clubs have second season syndrome, it gets called that.    Term less used when it's bigger names but Stuttgart are suffering a hefty dose of it, and Hannover are not that far ahead of them.     Die Eintracht, meanwhile, seem to have become some multi-headed goal machine monster.

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