Another MPU Case

37 posts in this topic

Hi all,

 

Long time reader, first time poster.  I have looked at all the topics about the MPU and what it is as well as what it entails, but I wanted to post a question or even really just ask for "what would you do" in my case.  I'm hoping to get some good suggestions and insights without too much criticism about my past life choice, so thanks in advance.

 

I've come to Germany in 2009 (october) from Serbia, and was driving drunk in 2010 with a hit-and-run.  I was pulled over and my blood was taken and I had 1.35 promille.  My drivers licence is only valid for 6 months here and so i was driving at the time while its still valid.  Once that was done, i was hit with a hefty fine for the damage, as well as the driving under the influence and had my licence suspended for 10 months.

 

I havent driven since (7+ years)

 

In 2013, i was out with my friends and i publicly urinated next to a building and someone poured water in my face, and as a reaction i kicked their gate (once) and broke it, and had to pay the damages.  The city dismissed all charges pertaining this case, and the repairs came directly from the owner and their lawyer.

 

in February 2017, my crappy country signed an agreement with Germany that we can finally exchange our license 1-for-1 and i took advantage of this and applied.  I recently received information that based on my previous history i had to to the MPU, and am given 2 months to complete it.

 

Now my question: I know exactly what the MPU is, and I'm a full supporter of it.  My past mistake is due to the circumstances at the time, and I have changed since and have become a valuable member of the society.  I really dont drink, i may have 2 heffe beers about twice a month if i go out for a business dinner with clients.

 

I actually liked the idea of the MPU, and i wanted to go and talk to this psychologist because i'm interested in what the outcome is.  My issues are that I dont still speak German comfortably especially when it comes to the psychologist questions and would need to get a translator, as well as I dont need a drivers licence.  The only reason i'm inclined to get a drivers license is because me and my gf are getting married and we would like kids in the near future, so i would need a car, but not really as she still drives.  I also work from home.

 

My gf does not want me taking the MPU as she says that she knows i'm not an alcoholic but she thinks that the MPU guy will purposefully make me undergo all the additional testing after just to take money and fill some kind of quota?  So i'm in a dilemma if I should do it, and what would you guys do if you were in my situation?


I am 35 years old.

 

Sorry for the long post, and looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

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The main problem with the MPU, and specially in your case (assuming you really changed and you are being honest) is that honesty might make you fail. In order to pass the MPU you have to answer what it is expected. This is why nowadays I think the MPU is crap, it is in theory a very good idea but it is very wrongly implemented. If you want to pass it you might want to enroll in one of those MPU coaching thingies they offer around in posters and street ads.

2 months to pass it looks like very short.

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Yea this I also heard that they prep you with answers... but would it not make sense that you go unprepared and just either be honest or lie and then pass/fail?  What is the purpose of the prep courses if they will make you learn what you need to say, thats not really rehab or is in any way constructive in any way...  I guess like most people, we shouldnt question this.

 

But thats another thing i dont understand... why 2 months?  Everywhere i have read, people have been doing the MPU for like a year or so.  Does this mean that the MPU should be done within 2 months, and then the shrink will say you need the additional testing for another year?  Not sure how that plays out.

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Im also interested if the MPU coaching thingies can be performed in English?  I know that the MPU can be done with a translator, but wanted to know if these prep courses can be done in English?

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A friend of mine is in this situation kind of.  What we have found out through the past three years of him initially wanting to do the MPU, to paying lots of money to a shady MPU coach and ending up nowhere, to then paying lots of money to a company that promised to get him a Czech Republic license and that ending up nowhere, is that a DUI drops off your record after 10 years.

 

Hence, you just have to wait until 2020 and your DUI drops off your record and you can apply for a license without the MPU.  If you want to do this, just withdraw your application for a DL at this point and go back in 3 years.

 

If you do want the MPU, you can pay for a coach but go with a known reputable company and be prepared to stop drinking completely for one year as you do random pee tests to make sure that you aren't.  Also, there is no guarantee that you will pass.  After the year, they could fail you and you would have to do it again for a year.  It's a lot of money down the drain if you don't pass for something that you don't, according to you, actually need right now.

 

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2 hours ago, cowboyeast said:

in February 2017, my crappy country signed an agreement with Germany that we can finally exchange our license 1-for-1 and i took advantage of this and applied.

This was a mistake since you cannot take advantage of such situation: you live in Germany, you have to go to German driving school and do everything from scratch. You are wasting your money: exchange will be denied.

 

Correction: it's ok, you can exchange it. However, in 3 years your license might expire and will not be exchangeable any more. I am not sure what is easier: to pass the MPU or get a German license from scratch.

 

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What are you talking about? of course he can exchange the license if his country has an agreement.

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Just now, Krieg said:

What are you talking about? of course he can exchange the license if his country has an agreement.

 

Of course he can but they can also require him to do an MPU if his DUI was here in Germany.  He could go to a lawyer and challenge that in court and see what they say though.  If he only had one DUI, they might let it go.  However, if as he says, he doesn't actually need a license at this point, he might as well save up his money and wait 3 years for the DUI to drop off his record.

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45 minutes ago, Krieg said:

What are you talking about? of course he can exchange the license if his country has an agreement.

I somehow assumed that OP acquired driving license while being registered in Germany, this is not allowed. This is definitely false: he had his license before moving to Germany.

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Hi all,

 

Yes correct, i have a Serbian drivers license from 2006 and moved to Germany in 2009 with it.  I drove the first 6 months with my Serbian drivers license in Germany as allowed per law, but drove drunk within that time frame.

 

Hi, the Czech thing is out of the question as I dont want to go through that and its illegal.

 

Second, the MPU will not drop off in 3 years, but 15 as the timer starts when i exchanged my drivers license from Serbian to German (MAR2017).  The only reason that the MPU was triggered now is because i did the exchange, and when i went to pick up the license from the Amt, they said i need to do the MPU if i want the license.

 

I heard all these stories for the urine tests and hair samples and stuff for over a year, but I dont understand how this applies to me when the Amt said i have 2 months to complete the MPU?  It states due date 20JUN2017.

 

So i can only assume that my first MPU will fail, and then i have to do the weekly urine samples and rehab for a year after that in order to prepare for my second attempt at the MPU? Is that correct?

 

Is it possible at all to pass the first time, or not?

 

I've looked into the prep courses and with a translator 5 classes at 1h will cost me approx. 700Euro.  After that the MPU will cost approx 900 from my estimates...  What else do i need?

 

Sorry im totally lost.

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I wouldn't recommend doing the Czech thing, at least not through a company,  It didn't work for my friend.  The Czech authorities are aware and are putting the brakes on.  If you picked up and actually moved to Czech and lived there for 6 months and got a DL, it would be perfectly legal.  The illegality here is saying you have lived in Czech for 6 months when you haven't.  I was talking to someone from Berlin the other day though and she said that half the ppl she knows in Berlin seem to have Polish DL's so some people have gotten away with it.

 

As for the MPU in two months, I believe you have to agree to take it (sign some papers) and register for it and then it has to run it's course.  They can offer you a  6 month program but they will tell you that your chances of passing are not good if you only do 6 months.  Better if you do 1 year.

 

As for the timer on the MPU, I would ask a lawyer about that.  My friend did not have any valid license when he got his first DUI in 2004.  He was given an "isolierte fahrsperre".  He later went to driving school and got a German license in 2007, less than 3 years after this DUI.  I do not know why he didn't need an MPU back then.  His 2nd DUI was in 2014.  At this point, he lost his license for a month and then got it back, only for them to contact him a week later to tell him to hand it in again because they wanted him to do the MPU.  He decided to fight it in court based on it being almost 10 years between the two DUI's but lost.  He was sent a letter from the court stating that because he did not have a DL in 2004, his first DUI stays on the record for 10 years starting from 2007 when he got his license.  During his quest for MPU, Czech license etc. we completely forgot about the letter.  Recently he decided to go do the MPU after all.  He went to the Verkehrsamt and the lady said she would look into his case. She then sent him a letter stating that he needs the MPU still and that he should come to her office.  I went with him and she explained that because of the isolierte fahrsperre, the first DUI would stay on his record for 5 + 10 years or until Dec. 2019.  We then remembered the letter from the court and found it and took it to this lady and showed it to her. She started flipping through her law books and eventually admitted that she had made a mistake and that he was eligible this month.  Goes to show that German officials also make mistakes.

 

In your shoes, I would ask again.  The difference between his case and yours is that he didn't have a license at all while you had a foreign license.  As well as he did get a license less than 3 years after his first DUI without an MPU and only after the 2nd DUI did they want an MPU.  Talking to a lawyer will cost you maybe 200 so it's cheaper than the MPU itself and takes less time.  Just to make sure.

 

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16 hours ago, LeonG said:

As for the MPU in two months, I believe you have to agree to take it (sign some papers) and register for it and then it has to run it's course.  They can offer you a  6 month program but they will tell you that your chances of passing are not good if you only do 6 months.  Better if you do 1 year.

 

I was under the impression that the MPU has to be completed within two months... this is what it states on the letter:

 

Sehr geehrter Herr,

 

am 08.03.2017 beantragten Sie die Umschreibung einer serbischen Fahrerlaubnis in eine Fahrerlaubnis der Klassen B, AM und L. Im Rahmen dieses Verfahrens werden Sie verpflichtet, bis 20.06.2017 ein medizinisch-psychologisches Gutachten einer amtlich anerkannten Begutaschtungsstelle fur Fahreignung beizubringen.

 

Sounds to me like it has to be completed by then?

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I talked to some lawyers, they said there is no way around it.  If i do decide to do it, they said also, dont even try without the prep courses.  He said depending on you and your history is how long you need to take the courses for is the success rate.

Only if you have been taking drugs, or have shown a history of alcoholism (cause lets face it, someone with 2.00 or higher BAC is an experienced drinker) will you undergo the MPU for 1 year or more with rigorous testing of urine and AA meetings basically.

 

So the MPU can be completed within one day, and hence I need to do this within the two months i was given.  If I fail this MPU, then you can opt for the 6m/1y course for a higher success rate.  This was my understanding.

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Im hoping once i complete my MPU that I can provide a detailed description of everything around this case and it can become a sticky as it would have made alot easier for our foreign friends to get the info.  What to do, whats expected and especially what the process is step-by-step.

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3 minutes ago, cowboyeast said:

Im hoping once i complete my MPU that I can provide a detailed description of everything around this case and it can become a sticky as it would have made alot easier for our foreign friends to get the info.  What to do, whats expected and especially what the process is step-by-step.

 

From my understanding, once my friend was asked to do the MPU, he requested more time to do the prep course and they said ok and he signed up for it.  However, I also heard from another guy saying he did the MPU and he never did any pee tests, just registered and waited a year, probably did some interviews and stuff as well.  He still drinks but he doesn't drive drunk anymore. 

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On 26.4.2017 11:29:50, cowboyeast said:

Only if you have been taking drugs, or have shown a history of alcoholism (cause lets face it, someone with 2.00 or higher BAC is an experienced drinker) will you undergo the MPU for 1 year or more with rigorous testing of urine and AA meetings basically.

 

Thanks to having acted as driver for an idiot professor of archtecture in 2006 I know for sure that its also possible for a court to withdraw someone's driving license and order them to undergo the MPU even if they've never taken drugs and haven't drunk any alchohol for 15 years before their court appearance.

 

I've written a detailed post or three about his case which included multiple links to a variety of MPU advice forums. You could surely find them if you searched for MPU topic threads between 2010 - 2015 but here's a short(ish) version.

 

He'd been caught on multiple occasions and at multiple locations for speeding over several years but was in the habit of using his Rechtsschutzversicherung to cover the legal costs of challenging every single ticket in court. He was a very arrogant and completely selfcentred dickhead who had absolutely convinced himself that he, and he alone, had become the target of the Mainz traffic police (even though he lived 20+km south of Mainz and spent most of his daytimes in Wiesbaden or elsewhere in Hessen).

 

Eventually a judge at the Wiesbaden court who had become fed up of his arguments and attitude told him he believed it was clear he was psychologically unfit to drive. That was when a mutual acquantance contacted me to say he needed a driver (true) and that he was willing and able to pay (not true!).

 

He managed to fail the MPU twice in the few months it took for me to lose patience with him. Apart from borrowing cash from me for fuel and regularly failing to pay my wages he also wasted masses of time and money all day totally BSing (unprofessionally discussing the day's BILD headline articles) on his mobile with bigwig German company directors who he was in effect begging to fund his next pipe-dream smart housing exhibition showpiece. In the end I came damn close to putting him over my knee and giving him the lesson his mother or father should have provided before they sent him to an elite expensive boarding school. grrrr!

 

Sorry for the digression, but whenever I think of him I still get irritated.

 

Anyway the main reasons he kept failing were that he could not convince the testing psycholgists that he

1) realized why he needed to prove his fitness to drive at all

2) was willing to acknowledge that he'd ever been at fault

3) was actually intent on adjusting his driving habits

4) was not completely nuts <--technical definition ;)

 

Personally I would have banned him for life from ever entering a motor vehicle never mind driving one.

 

2B

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I remember another case, also no drugs/alcohol involved. I guy came to KVR Munich and wanted to apply for Bavarian citizenship. The Constitution of Bavaria is from 1946, back then there was no German state, so it still has an article that you can naturalize as a Bavarian citizen or by marriage. This article is obsolete from 1949 (birth year of West Germany), so the citizenship law was never adopted for this reason.

 

The guy (from NRW) was considered nuts by KVR, and ordered MPU.

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26 minutes ago, 2B_orNot2B said:

Thanks to having acted as driver for an idiot professor of archtecture in 2006 I know for sure that its also possible for a court to withdraw someone's driving license and order them to undergo the MPU even if they've never taken drugs and haven't drunk any alchohol for 15 years before their court appearance.

 

Interesting case.  I also read about someone who was ordered to do an MPU after having been drunk and a public nuisance without actually driving anything at all.

 

I've heard of a couple of cases of people hiring drivers if they were well off.  My brother in law worked as a driver for a health inspector in Iceland who'd lost his license and had to get places or he'd lose his job too.  My brother in law probably didn't have a work permit back then so he probably did it for room, board and pocket money at the time.  I heard of one in Canada too that hired a young guy to drive him around and at least a part of the deal was that the guy got full use of his car but the boss would call him if he needed a lift somewhere.

 

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Hi,

 

The MPU can be given out as well if a young drivers fails their driving part of the test 3 times.  So its not related to alcohol or drugs only, but whenever the question of the ability to drive and questioning that whether or not they still can.  From what i've read it was put in place for, mentally disabled to prove they can get behind the wheel, but later adapted and is now more common for alcohol and drugs.

 

I can rant here all day to a bunch of strangers how much I changed and i'm awesome and so forth, but of no use, as just like any criminal once you are branded, you are branded for life.  But I know myself.  I know how much i've changed as a person in the last 7 years and how my life is now.  I just have to also convince and prove to the psychologist where he would agree with me, and Im just afraid of being in this system that because of some quota that needs to be filled, and budget reasons, they have to get people to cough up as much money as possible by making them do more than actually necessary.  I'm afraid that if a sane person is put into this system, and a psychiatrist tells them they are not (because of money needed), does it not change a person to question their own sanity?

 

Im not afraid of the outcome, i'm afraid of the system and it being rigged... maybe i'm just too paranoid.

 

Its just so weird for me to hear that nobody ever passed the MPU on the first time without preparation courses?  Is it possible that everyone has a drinking problem, I mean, not even one person??   This tells me that these prep courses are really teaching you how to pass it as an additional money scheme.  If this wasn't the case why would there be a separate businesses who only do that?!  We cant have that high of numbers to be a successful business, i doubt there are that many cases in Germany per year.  Am I wrong about this?

 

What about this scenario: My wife is allergic to alcohol since she turned 23.  She doesn't have the enzyme that can filter alcohol and faints after a sip of alcohol.  So what happens if she was in my case now, where she drank before this age, and now even though she cant even drink it, would she need to do abstinence testing and prep courses?  If so, that to me would be a clear sign of just trying to pocket extra money...   Again, maybe i'm wrong.  Its what i've read, but Im hoping that this is not the case, but are only angry rants by people who still will not admit they have/had a problem and hence cant pass the MPU on the first go.

 

So time will tell, but I will keep you posted.

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1 hour ago, cowboyeast said:

 I just have to also convince and prove to the psychologist where he would agree with me, and Im just afraid of being in this system that because of some quota that needs to be filled, and budget reasons, they have to get people to cough up as much money as possible by making them do more than actually necessary.

 

This is a commonly held, but IMO totally incorrect, assumption and their belief in it is probably the number one reason why so many people fail to pass with ease.

 

Quote

 I'm afraid that if a sane person is put into this system, and a psychiatrist tells them they are not (because of money needed), does it not change a person to question their own sanity?

 

AFAIK no psychiatrists are involved in the process at all. MPÜ means medical psychological test (of fitness to drive).

 

Quote

Im not afraid of the outcome, i'm afraid of the system and it being rigged... maybe i'm just too paranoid.

 

The system is not rigged. The institutional testers are themselves routinely subject to blind testing and are far too busy to waste their time trying to extort extra fees. You are, like most MPÜ candidates, approaching the whole thing from the wrong direction - hence your paranoia.

 

Quote

Its just so weird for me to hear that nobody ever passed the MPU on the first time without preparation courses?  

 

I'm pretty sure some (very few) people do pass first time but they probably had a different outlook than the majority of candidates to start with and may have had a little better idea about the purpose of the MPÜ and the objective methods employed by the testing psychologists.

 

Quote

1) Is it possible that everyone has a drinking problem, I mean, not even one person??  

2) This tells me that these prep courses are really teaching you how to pass it as an additional money scheme.  

3) If this wasn't the case why would there be a separate businesses who only do that?!  

4) We cant have that high of numbers to be a successful business, i doubt there are that many cases in Germany per year.  Am I wrong about this?

 

1) It is absolutely possible that the vast majority are disinclined to recognize and admit that they ever did have a problem with either drink, drugs or their attitude to their fellow road and pathway users. Refusal to convincingly and credibly acknowledge the basic reason why they have been ordered to undergo an MPÜ is the #1 reason people fail.

2) There are hundreds of companies offering MPÜ prep courses in Germany and, going by all the reading and research I've done, my guess is that while only about 20% of them are reputable all 100% of them are doing it for profit.

3) Maybe because demand by intellectually lazy gullible idiots for an 'easy alternative way to pass the MPÜ' outstrips the supply of good qualified sources of advice by a country mile.

4) Unless you think tens of thousands per annum are low numbers you are wrong about this.

 

At the risk of repeating myself I suggest again you use the (extended*) site search and put my user name+MPU in with date parameters from 2010 - 2015. As I said there are links in those posts to specialzed MPÜ forums which maintain statistics gathered from candidates of almost all the testing locations in Germany. If your German is good enough (if not you'll have to struggle with google translations) there is plenty of good free advice on at least one of those forums the website for which is, of course, provided and administered by the owner of one MPÜ coaching firm.

*to get to the extended search option start by doing a basic site search and then look carefully for an option button around the top of the results page. If that doesn't show up try clearing the google site search address bar and putting "2B_orNot2B+MPU" in and hitting Enter.


The federal ministry of transport also publishes statistics annually on the numbers of MPÜ orders. Sorry, but I'm using the wrong browser today otherwise I would have already posted all those links from my bookmark collection.

 

My advice would be to dump your current assumptions, figure out what they expect of a passing candidate and then work out your strategy for meeting that profile (honestly!!!).

 

Do not waste any time even thinking about putting on an act - they see people trying that every working day.

 

Consider arming yourself with the following basic ideas.

 

1st  Admission and acknowledgement of your having had a drink problem ([from the tester's POV] your drink problem being that you drank and then drove which clearly demonstrated that you were not aware that you had, or that society has, a problem with that combination).

 

2nd Convincing means of showing that you are aware and conscious of the problems society is faced with because of people who drive while (even slightly) intoxicated.

 

3rd Credible arguments proving that you have undertaken constructive measures to avoid ever being faced with the same type of problem.

 

Good luck!

 

2B

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