Steuer for Ebay Seller -- (no longer a) Kleinunternehmer rules

213 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, MLmunich said:

By ALL those documents you mean invoices, bank statements, AND paypal account statements, right?

 

Yes.

 

23 minutes ago, MLmunich said:

By "proof" you mean, not an invoice but a bank statement showing a transfer? And if so, does this apply to all transactions in Vietnam, what if an invoice is paid in cash, what does he do in that case?

 

You need to keep all bank account statements and the invoices. If it was paid cash, then keep just the invoice.

 

23 minutes ago, MLmunich said:

By the way, I found out he has a loan here... not sure when it was taken or the exact amount... He has lost the papers, but I'm going to try to get him to call about it. Does this count as Einnahmen? And if so where does it go on his EÜR?

 

Any interest on a loan that he took out for his business, is a business expense (= Betriebsausgabe). But he needs to have really used that money for his business.

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1 minute ago, PandaMunich said:

Any interest on a loan that he took out and then used that money for his business is a business expense (= Betriebsausgabe).

Ok, thank you. But the loan does not count as income, right?

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No. Neither is the loan amount entering his bank account income, nor are his repayments of the loan itself business expenses.

 

Only the interest is a business expense, but again: only if he really used that loan money for his business.

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Do you know if it's ok to print the many receipts sent by email as well as bank statements and paypal statements in draft mode to save ink? It's really a lot printing that needs to be done. As long as the digits can be made out is it fine? Receipts from Deutsche Post also naturally fade to the point of being not exactly easy to read.

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Also, I'm wondering what the difference is between Office supplies (Übrige ubeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben) and Tools used to make his products (geringwertige Wirtschaftsgüter)? For example, is a computer used to run his machines that manufacture things as well as to write emails a tool or an office supply?

 

Also, do things he buys for his factory like lightbulbs, insulation, air conditioning, etc. go under "Sonstige Aufwendungen für betrieblich genützte Grundstücke"?

 

Does the cost of someone building a website for him also go under "Übrige ubeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben"?

 

Did I already ask where Zoll goes? :blink:

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1 hour ago, MLmunich said:

Do you know if it's ok to print the many receipts sent by email as well as bank statements and paypal statements in draft mode to save ink? It's really a lot printing that needs to be done. As long as the digits can be made out is it fine? Receipts from Deutsche Post also naturally fade to the point of being not exactly easy to read.

 

Yes, as long as they are legible.

You have to immediately make a copy of all invoices that are on Thermopapier like the Deutsche Post ones and which will therefore fade out within a year or two:  https://www.handwerksblatt.de/themen-specials/24897-thermopapier-immer-kopieren.html

 

1 hour ago, MLmunich said:

Also, I'm wondering what the difference is between Office supplies (Übrige ubeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben) and Tools used to make his products (geringwertige Wirtschaftsgüter)? For example, is a computer used to run his machines that manufacture things as well as to write emails a tool or an office supply?

 

"Geringwertige Wirtschaftsgüter" which is shortened to GWG (line 33 in Anlage EÜR) are all items where each one cost anything over 150€ and up to 800€ net (= price without VAT), not only tools. Up till including 2017, the upper net price limit was 400€.

 

"Übrige unbeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben" (line 51 in Anlage EÜR) is where everything goes that wasn't part of one the cost categories of the previous lines in Anlage EÜR.

So, yes, stationery (paper, toner, etc.) is part of that. These are consumables.

 

A computer is not part of office supplies, since it doesn't get used up.

A computer is either, if it was bought in 2018 and it and its monitor together cost less than 800€, GWG, i.e. you depreciate 100% of it in 2018.

Otherwise, the computer and monitor costs have to be depreciated over 3 years, which means the depreciation (= AfA = Absetzung für Abnutzung) is claimed in line 30 in Anlage EÜR, and you have to also fill in the depreciation table in Anlage AVEÜR (page 6 in this file).

 

Same reasoning for tools over 150€ (price without VAT).

Tools under 150€ simply go into "Übrige unbeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben" (line 51 in Anlage EÜR).

But tools are not office supplies, they are "Werkzeuge", so write that as your headline above the tool expenditure in your Excel file which you use to do the sums to get the amounts to fill into Anlage EÜR.

 

1 hour ago, MLmunich said:

Also, do things he buys for his factory like lightbulbs, insulation, air conditioning, etc. go under "Sonstige Aufwendungen für betrieblich genützte Grundstücke"?

 

No, never.

You only use that for real-estate-specific costs like the Hausmeister or renovation costs for his workshop.

 

Just put them into  "Übrige unbeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben" (line 51 in Anlage EÜR) if they are under 150€ (price without VAT), or GWG if they are over 150€ but up to 800€ for each item. Above 800€ you have to depreciate the item over its lifetime, taken from here:  https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Standardartikel/Themen/Steuern/Weitere_Steuerthemen/Betriebspruefung/AfA-Tabellen/Ergaenzende-AfA-Tabellen/AfA-Tabelle_AV.pdf

 

1 hour ago, MLmunich said:

Did I already ask where Zoll goes? :blink:

 

You did.

 

On 5/9/2019, 5:59:06, MLmunich said:

Could you tell me where Zoll paid goes on the EÜR?

 

On 5/9/2019, 7:00:43, PandaMunich said:

Anlage EÜR, line 25, the customs fees are side costs to the purchase cost of your wares (= Nebenkosten der Waren).

 

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On 5/12/2019, 3:13:56, PandaMunich said:

You have to immediately make a copy of all invoices that are on Thermopapier like the Deutsche Post ones and which will therefore fade out within a year or two:  https://www.handwerksblatt.de/themen-specials/24897-thermopapier-immer-kopieren.html

THANK YOU.

 

On 5/12/2019, 3:13:56, PandaMunich said:

A computer is not part of office supplies, since it doesn't get used up.

A computer is either, if it was bought in 2018 and it and its monitor together cost less than 800€, GWG, i.e. you depreciate 100% of it in 2018.

What if the computer cost less than 150€, does it then also go under   "Übrige unbeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben" ?

 

On 5/12/2019, 3:13:56, PandaMunich said:
  On 5/9/2019, 7:00:43, PandaMunich said:

Anlage EÜR, line 25, the customs fees are side costs to the purchase cost of your wares (= Nebenkosten der Waren).

GREAT, thank you.

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45 minutes ago, MLmunich said:

What if the computer cost less than 150€, does it then also go under   "Übrige unbeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben" ?

 

Generally, yes.

But first show me a computer that costs less than 150€...

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7 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

But first show me a computer that costs less than 150€...

In Vietnam, he buys a lot of used things for very cheap.

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Sorry, but where does the cost of building a website go?

On 5/12/2019, 2:42:18, MLmunich said:

Does the cost of someone building a website for him also go under "Übrige ubeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben"?

 

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If the website designer's invoice is up to 800€ net (= without VAT), it's a GWG and all the cost is a business expense in the year you paid, i.e. you claim 100% of it this year.

 

If it was over 800€, you have to depreciate the cost over 3 years (= 36 months): https://www.haufe.de/finance/buchfuehrung-kontierung/homepage-und-domain-was-muss-im-rechnungswesen-beachtet-werden/kosten-bei-der-anschaffung-der-homepage_186_163368.html

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On 5/13/2018, 9:40:53, PandaMunich said:

 

Line 52 in Anlage EÜR: https://www.ihk-muenchen.de/ihk/BMF-Schreiben-vom-09.10.2017.pdf

However, if these fees were incurred in his purchase of wares or raw materials, they are secondary costs (= Nebenkosten) to that category, and go into line 25.

What if I don't know exactly how the money was allocated after transferring? Because he transfers the cash and then has his family use it for all the business costs...

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So I just tried to summarize all of the info you have given me regarding the EÜR, to confirm that I am filling everything out correctly, and because our correspondence has become a bit long so I will get lost if I always flip back through. Could you confirm? 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SEITE 1
Bezeichnung            
   Doe
   John
5 Art des Betriebs        
   eBay Verkäufer
6 Rechtsform des Betriebs    
   Sonstige(r) Einzelgewerbetreibende(r) (außer hausgewerbetreibende oder gleichgest. Person         nach dem Heimarbeitergesetz)
4 Wirtschaftsjahr        
   X entspricht dem Kalenderjahr 2018
7 Einkunftsart            
   X Gewerbebetrieb
8 Betriebsinhaber        
   X Stpfl./ Ehemann/ Person A
9 Wurden im Kalenderjahr/Wirtschaftsjahr der Betrieb veräußert oder aufgegeben? 
   --
10 Wurden im Kalenderjahr/Wirtschaftsjahr Grundstücke / grundstücksgleiche Rechte entnommen oder veräußert? 
   X Nein
14 Umsatzsteuerpflichtige Betriebseinahmen (NET SALES TO PRIVATE EU CUSTOMERS)
   25000,00
15 Umsatzsteuerfreie, nicht umsatzsteuerbare Betriebseinnahmen sowie Betriebseinnahmen, für die... (SALES TO EU BUSINESSES AND 3RD COUNTRIES)
16 Vereinnahmnte Unsatzsteuer sowie...
   5000,00 
22 Summe Betriebseinnahmen
   30000,00

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SEITE 2
25 Waren, Rohstoffe und Hilfstoffe einschl. der Nebenkosten

   2500,00€

   * All used goods bought for resale NET AMOUNT
   * All materials including electronics that are part of his finished products NET AMOUNT
   * Customs fees NET AMOUNT
27 Ausgaben für eigenes Personal

   15,000€
   * Vietnam workers salary VAT DOESNT APPLY
28 Afa unbewegliche Wirtschaftsgüter
   * Costs of constructing workshop VAT DOESNT APPLY
29 Afa immaterielle Wirtschaftsgüter
30 Afa bewegliche Wirtschaftsgüter
   * Costs of Machines greater than 800,00€ VAT DOESNT APPLY
   * Costs of tools greater than 800,00€ NET AMOUNT
   * Workshop costs greater than 800,00€ VAT DOESNT APPLY
33 Aufwendungen für geringwertige Wirtschaftsgüter nach §6 Abs. 2 EStG

   3500,00€
   * Cost of website more than 150€ and less than 800,00€ VAT DOESNT APPLY
   * Tools that cost more than 150€ and less than 800,00€ NET AMOUNT
   * Workshop costs (lightbulbs, insulation, air conditioning) if greater than 150€ and less than              800€ VAT DOESNT APPLY
38 Sonstige Aufwendungen für betrieblich genutzte Grundstücke 

   200,00€
   * Cost of electricity for workshop VAT DOESNT APPLY
   * Cost of water for workshop VAT DOESNT APPLY
39 Aufwendungen für Telekommunikation

   500,00€
   * o2 telephoning costs NET AMOUNT
   * o2 wifi costs NET AMOUNT
   * Vietnam internet costs VAT DOESNT APPLY
40 Übernachtungs- und Reisenebenkosten
42 Kosten für Rechts- und Steuerberatung, Buchführung
43 Miete / Leasing für bewegliche Wirtschaftsgüter
44 Beiträge, Gebühren, Abgaben und Versicherungen
45 Werbekosten
46 Schuldzinsen zur Finanzierung von Anschaffungs- und Herstellungskosten
47 Übrige Schuldzinsen
48 Gezahlte Vorsteuerbeträge
   = VAT PAID ON ALL OF YOUR COSTS
49 An das Finanzamt gezahlte und ggf. verrechnete Umsatzsteuer

   5000,00€
   = VAT PAID ON VAT ANNOUNCEMENTS
50 Rücklagen, stille...
51 Übrige unbeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben
    * Shipping costs NET AMOUNT
   * Office supplies that get used up like paper, ink, cell phone case, screen protector etc. NET             AMOUNT
   * eBay fees NET AMOUNT
   * Money transfer fees VAT DOESNT APPLY
   * Workshop costs (lightbulbs, insulation, air conditioning) if less than 150€ VAT DOESNT APPLY
   * Tools that cost less than 150€ NET AMOUNT
60 Sonstige tatsächliche Fahrkosten

   1000,00€
   * Plane tickets to and from Vietnam VAT DOESNT APPLY

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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That looks very nice, congrats!

 

4 hours ago, MLmunich said:

What if I don't know exactly how the money was allocated after transferring? Because he transfers the cash and then has his family use it for all the business costs...

 

That explanation won't fly, as a self-employed he always has to know exactly how much he spent on what, and have documentary proof for each and every expense.

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On 6/8/2019, 9:06:29, PandaMunich said:

That looks very nice, congrats!

 

 

That explanation won't fly, as a self-employed he always has to know exactly how much he spent on what, and have documentary proof for each and every expense.

So I think he sends a sum and then uses some of it for employee pay, some of it for this, some of it for that, etc. Then you'd have to divide the money transfer fee into all those categories? That seems too complicated.

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2 minutes ago, MLmunich said:

Then you'd have to divide the money transfer fee into all those categories?

 

Yes.

 

3 minutes ago, MLmunich said:

That seems too complicated.

 

But that's what running a business entails, and not only in Germany.

He is supposed to keep clear accounts, showing how much he spent on what, and he has to keep his private and business finances strictly separate.

So if he sent his family money to spend on wares, they have to give him an accounting of what exactly they did with that money.

 

I don't think there's a tax department in the world that would accept the following statement:

  • "I sent my family ???$, and somehow, they came up with some wares that I then sold.
    But I have no idea how much they paid for each cost category, who knows, they may have even used part of the money for their living expenses...
    But why do you care, all I want is that lump sum to be a business expense!" 

If he is not able to give an exact accounting (with documentary proof!) of the money he spent on producing/buying his wares, then the Finanzamt will not accept them as business expenses.

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16 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

If he is not able to give an exact accounting (with documentary proof!) of the money he spent on producing/buying his wares, then the Finanzamt will not accept them as business expenses.

So what would this documentary proof have to look like? If he has a money transfer slip to Vietnam and then receipts for the things he bought with it, does this suffice? Or does he need to transfer money in the exact amount of each purchase?

 

Also, if something is accidentally in the wrong category, for example " Übrige unbeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben " instead of " Waren, Rohstoffe und Hilfstoffe einschl. der Nebenkosten ", then is it a really terrible mistake, because don't they both get completely subtracted from the turnover anyway?

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2 hours ago, MLmunich said:

receipts for the things he bought with it

 

That's it.

 

2 hours ago, MLmunich said:

Also, if something is accidentally in the wrong category, for example " Übrige unbeschränkt abziehbare Betriebsausgaben " instead of " Waren, Rohstoffe und Hilfstoffe einschl. der Nebenkosten ", then is it a really terrible mistake, because don't they both get completely subtracted from the turnover anyway?

 

It's not a terrible mistake, but it will result in an admonition from the Finanzamt to either learn the correct categories or to outsource your accounting to somebody who already knows them. 

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On 5/12/2019, 3:13:56, PandaMunich said:

"Geringwertige Wirtschaftsgüter" which is shortened to GWG (line 33 in Anlage EÜR) are all items where each one cost anything over 150€ and up to 800€ net (= price without VAT), not only tools. Up till including 2017, the upper net price limit was 400€.

 

Sorry, but just to double check... ANYTHING (materials, tools, etc. EXCEPT SALARIES) over 150 and less than 800 is GWG, right?

 

Or are materials (paint, metal etc.) always in the Waren, Rohstoff, etc. category?

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Just translate "Waren, Rohstoffe und Hilfsstoffe einschließlich der Nebenkosten" and you get "Goods, raw materials and auxiliary materials including ancillary costs", which is fairly clear.

So these are the goods that he buys and then resells, or the raw materials that he uses to produce his own goods (e.g. silver for silver jewellery). Auxiliary materials would be, for example, the flowing solution he uses to solder his jewellery. Ancillary costs would be the German customs fees that he paid when importing goods that he had bought for resale.

 

Anything that doesn't directly enter goods he produces/buys for resale, but is just used in the production/sale and that cost above 150€ and up to 800€, like for example a special soldering iron for gold jewellery at 439.99€, is GWG. 

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