Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Stone Brewing in Alt Mariendorf, Berlin

59 posts in this topic

95% pils?

 

Maybe you should get out more.  Prominent beer styles are very regional in Germany

 

funny that you estimate the "other styles" are under-represented...my market has a long, double-sided aisle of beer and about 75% of that is neither straight pils nor helles.  In a bar, yes, selection is very limited but that's often because the place will be sponsored by a certain brewery who decides which beers they will offer.  In munich and bavaria in general that is helles helles helles and weissbier weissbier weissbier.  Pils, while available, accounts for a wee smidge more than zero of the styles I see consumed regularly.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

95% pils?

 

Maybe you should get out more.  Prominent beer styles are very regional in Germany

 

funny that you estimate the "other styles" are under-represented...my market has a long, double-sided aisle of beer and about 75% of that is neither straight pils nor helles.  In a bar, yes, selection is very limited but that's often because the place will be sponsored by a certain brewery who decides which beers they will offer.  In munich and bavaria in general that is helles helles helles and weissbier weissbier weissbier.  Pils, while available, accounts for a wee smidge more than zero of the styles I see consumed regularly.

 

I have visited Munich many times, but have not tried to purchase beer in a grocery store.  

 

You are right - even in the bars there, it is not weighted towards Pilsner.    How many truly distinct types do you see rather than distinct brands of basically the same type of beer?    Pilsner, Helles, Weissbier, Kellarbier, ... ?

 

My experience in NRW has been that most people don't even understand what craft beer or Pale Ale is.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The numbers that I have found suggest pils is somewhere between 50% and 65% of the beer market in germany, the various weizens make up 5-10%, about 10% alcohol free and craft beer around 1-2%.  That doesnt sum to 100 of course, there are vairous other beer categories such as "biermix" and export, and "regional specialities" amongst others.

 

11 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

In munich and bavaria in general that is helles helles helles and weissbier weissbier weissbier.  Pils, while available, accounts for a wee smidge more than zero of the styles I see consumed regularly.

 

According to the diagram here https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article161520439/Dieses-Bier-wollen-die-Deutschen-jetzt-trinken.html helles is about 30% of beer in Bayern and pills is about 20%, weizen at 13% is high relative to other bundeslander but is still below pils.

 

Usual caveats, I dont know the sources for many of the numbers, they most likely change from year to year, etc, etc.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, balticus said:

How many truly distinct types do you see rather than distinct brands of basically the same type of beer?

 

I already said they are not "straight" pils or helles (and no, I don't confuse beer styles with brands - really?).  meaning they are other varieties.  In fact all the varieties I listed in my previous post, barring Goze, are offered in the small-ish Rewe nearest my house. Plus varieities of märzen, winter/christmas brews (a couple of which are really good) and starkbier, depending on the time of year.  They also carry a small selection of German made craft beers (mostly attempts at india/pale ales but they really aren't very good, aside from the aforementioned Maisel offerings) plus a couple types of Leffe and hard cider from...I forget who.  and of course a selection of different styles of hefeweizen (crystal, dunkles and helles and variations thereof). 

 

Note I don't live in a special swanky or trendy neighborhood. Of course you don't see a selection like this at penny or aldi &co - those places only seem to sell cans of swill these days.  Or...I have a hard time even typing this:  PLASTIC bottles of swill.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

I already said they are not "straight" pils or helles (and no, I don't confuse beer styles with brands - really?).  meaning they are other varieties.  In fact all the varieties I listed in my previous post, barring Goze, are offered in the small-ish Rewe nearest my house.

 

I simply asked how many?   It was not meant as a hostile question.   The Edekas and Rewe in NRW have limited selections.  

 

The Polish grocery stores i have visited in Warsaw central area and Krakow old town have carried 10-20 different types of craft beer with larger stores carrying more.   It is a huge contrast to what i see in NRW.  

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, zwiebelfisch said:

I dont know the sources for many of the numbers

 

I'd like to know where they got that too.  That is just not what I see when I'm out drinking, eating or even shopping.  Obviously I have not spent time in every nook and cranny of Bavaria, but now I wonder where all those pils lovers are hiding out.  I am really not exaggerating: I know one single person who regularly drinks pils - this is after observation of friends, workmates, acquaintances, strangers drinking beer on the street, in biergartens, restos, what people are buying in the market, etc, not just in Munich but further afield as well.  I just don't see people consuming pils. 

 

I hear Franken is the most likely contributor...but we know Franken is only **technically** part of Bavaria, so... ;)

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, balticus said:

The Polish grocery stores i have visited in Warsaw central area and Krakow old town have carried 10-20 different types of craft beer with larger stores carrying more.   It is a huge contrast to what i see in NRW.

 

I could not agree more, go in any supermarket or späti in poland and the range of beers is staggering in comparison to germany and their oh so proud brewing history. 

 

That said, much of europe is on a par with germany, I dont remember much in the way of beer selection in most of france, italy, spain, scandinavia (though thats no surprise).  Belgium did as far as I remember have quite a good selection, but then its almost all domestic beers so one could argue if that is a proper broad selection.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

 

I'd like to know where they got that too.  That is just not what I see when I'm out drinking, eating or even shopping.  Obviously I have not spent time in every nook and cranny of Bavaria, but now I wonder where all those pils lovers are hiding out.  I am really not exaggerating: I know one single person who regularly drinks pils - this is after observation of friends, workmates, acquaintances, strangers drinking beer on the street, in biergartens, restos, what people are buying in the market, etc, not just in Munich but further afield as well.  I just don't see people consuming pils. 

 

Oettinger is the king of sales in Germany, but you never see people drinking it in pubs, dinners or parties.   It is something heavy beer drinkers with no budget drink in the privacy of their homes, when there is no one there to judge you.

 

What I mean is that while in general I agree with what you said, real life is always full of surprises.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People drink shit beer, surprise surprise.  In other news people eat mcdonalds and watch german television.  I dont think I know anyone who admits to that either.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, zwiebelfisch said:

People drink shit beer, surprise surprise.  In other news people eat mcdonalds and watch german television.  I dont think I know anyone who admits to that either.

 

The beer in Germany is nice but not amazing that Reinheitsgebot is a load of codswallop, it stops innovation. British bitters vary from brand to brand even pub to pub, huge variation. American beers - the ones I've slurped in the US are very varied and I reckon

their craft beer thing has potential, more than the Germans. 

 

As for the telly here, Jesus if they ever wanna torture Julian Assange let him sit through an entire Traumschiff and he'll tell all...

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, jeremytwo said:

Reinheitsgebot is a load of codswallop,

 

Its a bit dubious to claim that that its followed as well.  Initially yeast wasnt an allowed ingrediant, and such things as hop extract were non existant at the time so claiming that they are allowed "because hops" isnt at all clear to me.  And dont get me started on Weizen, the whole point of the reinheitsgebot was arguably nothing about "purity" but to stop people using wheat for brewing which was needed for food.

 

Incidentally this isnt the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist, its all very clear in the history, all this purity law stuff is largely folk law.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jeremytwo said:

I reckon

their craft beer thing has potential, more than the Germans. 

2018 

Total U.S. Breweries

7,450

Germany- " There are now 1,492 breweries across the nation "

 

 

I'd say so.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, catjones said:

It's existence in Europe.  I can remember when almost every german town brewed their own (mostly pils) beer.  Those days are long gone.  The movement back to microbreweries is an American phenom.  It just is.

 

Nope. Of the approximately 1,400 breweries in Germany, 95% are small or 'micro' breweries - of which you probably know nothing simply because they market their beer locally and not as fancy "craft beer" for urban hipsters.

 

The only "new" thing is that hand brewed beer is now also available under the marketing label "Craft Beer". And it's not that new - the first Berlin "Craft Beer" brand was "Turn" from Kreuzberg, which has been brewed since 1996 (!). To sell Stone Brewing as a "new idea", which failed because the idea is too new for the Germans, is simply silly. 

 

Without deeper insight, I would say that Stone Brewing made two mistakes: Firstly, a location that was too big in an unattractive place and secondly, filling cans with expensive beer. Wrong packaging.

 

21 hours ago, catjones said:

Actually those are all European beers...not American beers.

 

These are all beers from a single US brewing group. Your 'anti-Americanism' number doesn't work either, sorry. 

 

6 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

Oettinger is the king of sales in Germany,

 

King of sales is Radeberger followed by InBev (catjones' poor, boycotted Americans). Then comes Bitburger and Oettinger is only in 4th place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

of which you probably know nothing simply because they market their beer locally and not as fancy "craft beer" for urban hipsters.

 

what an ignorant, elitist remark.

17 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

The only "new" thing is that hand brewed beer is now also available under the marketing label "Craft Beer".

Craft beer is not "hand brewed"...whatever that means.

 

18 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

filling cans with expensive beer. Wrong packaging.

again, ten years behind the curve.  in fact, light is one of the most damaging aspect of beer...cans = no light, lighter packaging, lower shipping costs and in multiple blind tastings, reviewers could not detect any difference.

 

21 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

These are all beers from a single US brewing group. Your 'anti-Americanism' number doesn't work either, sorry. 

 

You should google "ownership vs production".  My guess: consumers of the EU brands don't know and don't care where the corporate headquarters is located.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

InBev is Belgian/Brazilian isn't it? They bought Anheuser-Busch. It's a huge conglomerate competing with 100% Dutch Heineken, who also owns loads of German breweries. I stick to Weißbier (Weizen outside Bavaria) myself. In Bavaria you basically order a Helles or a Weißbier. I don't need a menu for that :).

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, someonesdaughter said:

Without deeper insight, I would say that Stone Brewing made two mistakes: Firstly, a location that was too big in an unattractive place and secondly, filling cans with expensive beer. Wrong packaging.

 

yes - their business model was not good.  as jeffo already pointed out,  not hard to predict the outcome from the start.

 

but their A-1 worst mistake:  their beer just isn't that great

 

but noooooo  - it's the silly old fashioned germans that took them down with their lack of...something.  It's a ruse.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

InBev is Belgian/Brazilian isn't it? They bought Anheuser-Busch. It's a huge conglomerate competing with 100% Dutch Heineken, who also owns loads of German breweries. I stick to Weißbier (Weizen outside Bavaria) myself. In Bavaria you basically order a Helles or a Weißbier. I don't need a menu for that :).

 

yes precisely.  I remember when that sale went through...all these bud drinkers feeling conflicted about whether they could still be real 'Merikuns if they stuck with bud after it was taken over by a bunch of euro trash liberal commies (not my words, and I am paraphrasing of course)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, catjones said:

 

what an ignorant, elitist remark.

 

Hit dogs bark. What is your problem? Did you invest money in Stone Brew? I don't care, keep imitating Trump, the evil "anti-Americanism" and the ignorant Germans are to blame for the lack of success. And "elitist" - my arse. Selling expensive beer is for the masses, or what? 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, lisa13 said:

their beer just isn't that great

Not bad for being not great.

 

Forbes:

Here are the Top 50 U.S. breweries, ranked by volume of beer produced last year, according to the Brewers Association:

18)        Stone Brewing, Escondido, California

  • 2017: 388,000 bbls (9.3% increase)
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0