Politics Gen XYZ

3,742 posts in this topic

On 12/14/2019, 12:14:30, fraufruit said:

Making it easier for expats to vote and getting rid of the 15 yr. limit on voting rights sounds like a positive to me.

My personal view is that expats should not be able to vote because I can`t come to terms with me being able to have an influence on a country where I don`t live.

Let`s be honest 99.9% of the time what govt rules doesn`t affect us personally.

The only vote I can think of that any expat should have been able to vote in was Brexit as that affects every UK citizen no matter where they live.

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On 12/14/2019, 12:10:51, French bean said:

have to agree with the need for some form of ID to vote. I'm also in favour of national ID cards,

I disagree totally with these 2 points but wont go into it or it`ll bring out the many mavens on this board.

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19 minutes ago, Keleth said:

My personal view is that expats should not be able to vote because I can`t come to terms with me being able to have an influence on a country where I don`t live.

Let`s be honest 99.9% of the time what govt rules doesn`t affect us personally.

The only vote I can think of that any expat should have been able to vote in was Brexit as that affects every UK citizen no matter where they live.

Sorry, but as a US citizen my country's oversize influence is felt everywhere, and expat or not I get to vote.  My govt does affect me, and the rest of the world, very personally.  

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Americans need to file a tax return whether residing in the US or not and pay above a certain amount + pay on certain investment gains.

 

That should be sufficient grounds to have the right to vote.  

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4 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

Sorry, but as a US citizen my country's oversize influence is felt everywhere, and expat or not I get to vote.  My govt does affect me, and the rest of the world, very personally.  

What any country does in some  way affects everyone.So should we be able to vote in all countries elections.

Why should you for example be able to vote in a govt that then gives the rich tax cuts while leaving the poor worse off when it wouldn`t affect you ?

Why should I living in Germany for example have a govt who decides to put the retirement age up to 75 have that decision foisted up me from a govt that was helped being voted in by people who haven`t lived in Germany for years and who may live in a country where they retire at 60 ?

Countries and people should be more interested in helping their own disenfranchised and poor play a part in choosing govts than expats doing it.

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3 minutes ago, balticus said:

Americans need to file a tax return whether residing in the US or not and pay above a certain amount + pay on certain investment gains.

 

That should be sufficient grounds to have the right to vote.  

And that`s a totally different argument from Beths and that is a way it affects someone personally.

That`s not a Trump is President and I don`t like him type of argument.

I fucking hate Johnson but the idiots voted him in and why should I have a say in it.

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Also, the last time I was a US expat I was only gone for 3 years.  Would there be some time frame imposed after which one couldn't vote?  I think the current system is just - an expat can vote in federal, but not local, US elections.

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4 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

Also, the last time I was a US expat I was only gone for 3 years.  Would there be some time frame imposed after which one couldn't vote?  I think the current system is just - an expat can vote in federal, but not local, US elections.

It`s 15 years in the UK which is about right.If you`re out of a country longer than that then there`s probably not a lot of chance of you going back and if you do have you really the moral right to decide what govt has been running your country while you weren`t there just so it`s how you want it when you go back.

 

Also what you and a lot seem to forget is that there are many millions of people who wanted/want Trump as President and he was voted in as such.Now whether these people were sane or right is another matter entirely but that is more a problem with American society than the electoral rights of various people.

Yes I know Trump didn`t win the popular vote but your crazy electoral system has been in place for years and despite the uproar over it now (rightly so IMO) it has never been changed despite years of Democratic Presidencies.

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7 minutes ago, Keleth said:

What any country does in some  way affects everyone.So should we be able to vote in all countries elections.

Why should you for example be able to vote in a govt that then gives the rich tax cuts while leaving the poor worse off when it wouldn`t affect you ?

Why should I living in Germany for example have a govt who decides to put the retirement age up to 75 have that decision foisted up me from a govt that was helped being voted in by people who haven`t lived in Germany for years and who may live in a country where they retire at 60 ?

Countries and people should be more interested in helping their own disenfranchised and poor play a part in choosing govts than expats doing it.

Sorry, but what some countries such as the US and Britian are up to, affect others in the world much more than an election in Haiti (no disrespect meant there at all).  And frankly, being a citizen and an expat gives a perspective that one might argue can help a voter make more informed decisions.  I am grateful for that.

 

Also - I get to vote in my federal elections in part because what my govt does will affect me if at any time I choose to voluntarily return to reside there.  That option is open to me at any time, and although I am currently displeased with my president, I consider having that option an enormous benefit.  I would rather have it than not have it.  As a citizen I have that right, and hence I have a corresponding responsibility to vote.

 

BTW - in the US, being registered to vote, means that one is subject to being called up for jury duty.  As an expat, I won't be.  But the point is that rights and responsibilities go together.

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1 minute ago, Keleth said:

Yes I know Trump didn`t win the popular vote but your crazy electoral system has been in place for years and despite the uproar over it now (rightly so IMO) it has never been changed despite years of Democratic Presidencies.

Sounds to me like you are not interested in my perspective but just want to argue.  My "crazy electoral system" can not be instantly changed.  A movement to change it is underway but it requires the stamp of approval by a requisite number of states and we are only 2/3 of the way there I believe.

 

If you aren't interested in participating in some of your country's "crazy elections" (as there's plenty to go around) I'll thank you not to trample on my rights.  They are what they are.

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11 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

 

BTW - in the US, being registered to vote, means that one is subject to being called up for jury duty.  As an expat, I won't be.  

 

Off topic, but possibly helpful

 

Unfortunately, you can still be called up and AFAIK cited for contempt of court if you don't answer.   Hope you have someone collecting your US mail.

 

They will excuse you, but there is no flag in their system to filter you out.  

 

From what I have been told, voter registration is automatic in some places with driver's license renewal unless you explicitly tell the office not to register you.  

 

HTH

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16 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

Sounds to me like you are not interested in my perspective but just want to argue.  My "crazy electoral system" can not be instantly changed.  A movement to change it is underway but it requires the stamp of approval by a requisite number of states and we are only 2/3 of the way there I believe.

 

If you aren't interested in participating in some of your country's "crazy elections" (as there's plenty to go around) I'll thank you not to trample on my rights.  They are what they are.

 

It`s only underway because Trump got voted in though isn`t it.This is the big problem with Democrats at the moment they seem to think it was all sweetness and light under them and will go back to being so when(if) Trump is voted out.

What has stopped the Democrats over the past god knows how many years changing it ?

Also you get affected by the influence of the US even though not living there.What happens when the govt you voted in affects people negatively say with healthcare or benefits or tax etc then you not living there don`t have to suffer the consequences of what your vote caused.Yet someone who lives there but is a non citizen or voted the other way suffers the good and bad through no choice of theirs.

 

So should non citizens of a country be allowed to vote if they live there ? (I`m personally in favour of this after a set time limit because that person has contributed a lot more over the years than some expat)

 

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20 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

Off topic, but possibly helpful

 

Unfortunately, you can still be called up and AFAIK cited for contempt of court if you don't answer.   Hope you have someone collecting your US mail.

 

 

 

If you still have a US address and receive mail there and maintain a driver's license there, you are not normally resident in the foreign country. So, no, Americans who are normally resident in a foreign country do not get jury summonses. Examples of people who are not normally resident: SOFA status holders, military staff, DOS staff.

 

Most of the Americans on this board file their US taxes using their German address and have German DLs. Don't you? Or are you not an American and the question is not?

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26 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

Off topic, but possibly helpful

 

Unfortunately, you can still be called up and AFAIK cited for contempt of court if you don't answer.   Hope you have someone collecting your US mail.

 

They will excuse you, but there is no flag in their system to filter you out.  

 

From what I have been told, voter registration is automatic in some places with driver's license renewal unless you explicitly tell the office not to register you.  

 

HTH

All of the things that you have mentioned vary by state and often by county within states.  

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5 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

All of the things that you have mentioned vary by state and often by county within states.  

 

Meant as a friendly heads up and not as an authoritative dictate.  

 

I know people via internet who have been sent multiple notices until they de-registered to vote.

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23 minutes ago, Keleth said:

 

So should non citizens of a country be allowed to vote if they live there ? (I`m personally in favour of this after a set time limit because that person has contributed a lot more over the years than some expat)

 

My ethnic German MIL born in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia retained her German citizenship (granted to her as a displaced ethnic German in 1949).  She became a PR of the US in 1957 and never had the right to vote, and she was ok with it.  For several reasons she chose that route.  Them's the rules.

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32 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

 

If you still have a US address and receive mail there and maintain a driver's license there, you are not normally resident in the foreign country.

 

32 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

That's simply untrue.  I have been an expat twice and have always maintained an address and a US DL in each case.  So does my expat son and numerous other expats I know.  

 

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So, no, Americans who are normally resident in a foreign country do not get jury summonses. Examples of people who are not normally resident: SOFA status holders, military staff, DOS staff.

Of course we can get a jury summons while living here and being registered to vote.  And by showing we are resident here we are then plucked out of the jury pool.

Quote

Most of the Americans on this board file their US taxes using their German address and have German DLs. Don't you? Or are you not an American and the question is not?

I am a US citizen.  I have a US DL.  I don't want or need a German DL.  My husband has a US DL and his German DL that he obtained in 1987 is still in force in Germany although he didn't reside in Germany from 1989-2018.  

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20 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

Meant as a friendly heads up and not as an authoritative dictate.  

 

I know people via internet who have been sent multiple notices until they de-registered to vote.

 

When you establish your overseas address, you retain the right to vote in your last state of residence subject to the laws of the state. For example, I vote in Georgia, but only for federal offices and they don't send me jury summonses because my address is in Germany. Never deregister to vote.

 

Promoting that false information is an attempt to disenfranchise voters. Don't do that.

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